(Topic ID: 289096)

Wms. FAST BALL won't play 2nd Player

By JethroP

3 years ago


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  • 69 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by HowardR
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#31 3 years ago

I have a question. What all Relays are in the Relay Bank? It seems to me when playing a 2 Player
game, after the 2nd coin (credit) is deposit, the Bank shouldn't reset after the 1st Player's 3rd out.
When it does, the 2nd Coin Relay is latched to stay and that relay needs to be in the unlatched position
for the 2nd Player to be able to play. I'd like to know if any of the Relays in the Bank need to be reset
after the 1st Player gets the 3rd out..
If you look at the lights on the schematic, with the 2nd Coin Relay re-latched, the "2 Can Play" will not
stay lit. It'll go back to "1 Can Play".
It seems like the Transfer Relay would pulse after the 3rd Out, but it's also remaining energized
because the Player Relay isn't energizing. If the Player Relay energized, it would cut the circuit
to the Transfer Relay which in turn would cut the circuit to the Relay Bank Coil..
So if you consentrate on the Player Relay circuitry, there's a Score Motor switch (4A I think)
and a set of switches in the Transfer Relay which means the Transfer Relay should remain energized
until the Player Relay gets energized.
So in short, my guess would be that the Player Relay's not energizing, thus the Transfer and Reset Bank is..

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from JethroP:

But if I manually relatch the game over relay (if I've coined up for 2 players) the "2 can play" lights and I can play the second player. Everything is set to play the 2nd player if I relatch the game over relay.

So you're saying after the 1st Player gets 3 outs, The Relay Bank isn't energizing and
the 2nd Coin Relay is in the trip (down) position?
That tripped 2nd Coin Relay should cut all circuits to the Game Over Relay..
Edit: I might add, except for the Lock Relay circuitry to the Game Over Relay. That
schematics must be off. That Lock Relay has to have an open set of contacts
after start up.

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from JethroP:

the "2 can play" lights and I can play the second player.

Quoted from JethroP:

The first time it resets the 2nd coin relay.

This is what I don't get. If you lift and latch the Game Over Relay, the "2 Can Play" is
lit, but yet the 2nd Coin Relay is reset. The "2 Can Play" is lit when the 2nd Coin
Relay is tripped. With it's latched, the "1 Can Play" is lit.
Yes, with the 2nd Coin Relay latched, the Game Over is suppose to energize.
I'm pretty certain the Relay Bank when on a 2 Player game isn't suppose to
energize the 1st time which would allow the 2nd Coin Relay not to reset which
would keep the circuitry's path to the Game Over Relay broken..

#38 3 years ago
Quoted from JethroP:

then why is the bank resetting 2 times?

I'm thinking because the Outs Unit hasn't reset, and once the 2nd Coin Relay is reset, it
tells the machine it's only on 1 Player, and he has 3 outs..
When on a 2 Player game, as the 1st Player gets the 3rd out, check if the Player Relay
gets tripped. It should, but if not, it will reset the Relay Bank. If this is the case, then I'd
check if the bottom set of switches on the 4th Score Motor's cam is making good contact
during the Score Motor's revolution. Also a set of contacts in the Transfer Relay is in the
Player Relay's circuitry..
With the named Relays in the Relay Bank, I'm maybe thinking that the Relay Bank should
only reset at start up. Actually, it would seem that that has to be the case. The 2nd Coin Relay
can't be reset and still be able to play a two Player game..
I might add. There's a set of contacts in the 2nd Coin Relay and Start Relay that's also in the
Player Relay's circuitry..

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from JethroP:

It does trip immediately at the 3rd out.

Okay, and does the Transfer Relay trip about the same time, then quickly lets loose but
the Player Relay remains tripped?

#42 3 years ago

Okay, all that is working okay. Now the thing is, if the Transfer Relay is not energized at
the end of the Score Motor's revolution which is when the Relay Bank's Coil energizes,
the circuit to the Relay Bank should be broken. There's a set of contacts in the Transfer
Relay that has to be closed for the Relay Bank to reset. Those contacts are closed when
the Transfer Relay is energized. If the Transfer Relay makes then breaks at the beginning
of the Score Motor's revolution, why is the Relay Bank resetting? I'm sure you checked
the Transfer Relay's sets of contacts for proper adjustment. None are slightly touching when
they're suppose to be opened? And of course the solder tabs all look okay?

#44 3 years ago
Quoted from JethroP:

It only resets once after 3rd out 1st player.

Yea, if the Transfer Relay is not energized when the Relay Bank resets, it shouldn't
be resetting. If you look at the Relay Bank's circuitry which is toward the top of the
schematic, it shows an open set of points while the Transfer Relay is not energized.
There's no other route for the Relay Bank's coil to energize without going through
that Transfer Relay's set of contacts..
So for sure the Transfer Relay is not energized when the Relay Bank resets?
I'll take another look at the schematics. See where maybe something could be
crossing paths..

#46 3 years ago

I now did noticed another circuit to the Transfer Relay. That Relay does hold,
but not before it's on 3 outs and the Inning is on 0. So it looks like it may reset
at the end of a game, but I don't see how it would before the 2nd Player has finished
their turn. Can you confirm one more time that when on a 2 Player game, and
the 1st Player gets the 3rd out, the Transfer Relay is not energized when the Relay
Bank resets.

#48 3 years ago
Quoted from JethroP:

I believe the transfer relay is deenergizing too soon.

Actually after noticing that other path coming from the Score Motor's Index cam, I'm thinking
the Transfer Relay remains energized right up until the Score Motor stops. Is that accurate?
Also, after 1st Player gets the 3rd out and goes to game over, if you reset the Game Over
and trip the 2nd Coin Relay, can the 2nd Player play and finish out the game, or does it
remain on 3 Outs?

#51 3 years ago

That is good to hear. Yea, I saw a couple things that looked off with that schematic.
After taking another clearer look at the Transfer Relay's circuitry(s), it looked like
it was suppose to stay energized right up to the Score Motor's run-out.
I don't have this style Williams baseball machine, but the Relay Bank Reset's
after the 1st Player's 3rd out, resetting the 2nd Coin Relay? The schematic seems
to indicate that, but that doesn't seem how the game should be working..

#67 3 years ago
Quoted from JethroP:

Shouldn't the transfer relay stay latched in until the score motor stops?

I've been busy, but I'll jump in here a second. According to the schematics, once the Transfer Relay energizes,
it should remain energized until the Score Motor stops which (according to the schematics) would energize the
Relay Bank's coil every time the Transfer Relay energized, except (I believe) when on the 2nd Player because the
Player Relay would be tripped and a set of contacts would cut the circuit and not allow the Transfer Relay to energizes.
The Transfer's Score Motor "hold" contact is on the same stack (Index) as the Score Motor's run out switch, so once the
Transfer Relay energizes, it would remain energized (according to those schematics)..
I'd maybe keep the cam factory and like Mark said, you'd think someone on here has a machine like yours to compare.
btw: The Lock Relay does energize after start up, right? Looks like some of that schematic shows the components before
start up, but either way, something is goofy about it..

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