(Topic ID: 314577)

Wizard or Oz light problem

By twinzdad1029

1 year ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by calprog
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

#1 1 year ago

Last night while playing WOZ, during a ballsave "there's no place" challenge, the RAINBOW lights starting acting really wierd. Then the TOTO outlane lane rollover switches light top two white and bottom two pink. Now there are no lights for RAINBOW, TOTO, SCARECROW OR LION. Everything else works fine, just those lights will not illuminate.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.
[email protected]

#2 1 year ago

I've got really bad news for you.

Your problems have begun, and unless you have lighting 2.0 installed on your machine, you'll be fighting light problems until you install lighting 2.0.

Wizard of Oz lights come in a couple of different generations, so my first advice is to find out what you are looking at. You might have the original 5v light board. You might have the first revision 7.5v light boards. It's possible you have Version 2.0 (what you will eventually be putting in...).

Here is the link to the manual:

https://marketing.jerseyjackpinball.com/woz/Wizard_of_Oz_Manual_3_5_Dec_2016.pdf

So far, I've been speaking in very general terms, so you MIGHT be able to temporarily get your problem fixed with just a single connection, maybe a single replacement board, even if you've not yet updated to lighting 2.0.

Scroll down in the manual to page E24, if your lighting looks like this, then breath a sigh of relief. Your light system has a chance to work! Now all you need to do is check the connectors to the various lights that aren't working. Unplug and plug back in, wiggle connectors, etc. Could be a bad cable, it's common for it to be a bad connection, could be a bad board.

If you don't have a lot of network cables coming from a 'COMS HUB BOARD', you will have to get an earlier version of the schematic, to start troubleshooting.

Let us know what version of lighting system you have, and we'll help you from there.

#3 1 year ago

And good luck trying to aquire the 2.0 lightboards. I've been waiting over 2 years.

#4 1 year ago

While the above post may be correct about bad boards,do what he said and the first thing to check are all the light connectors on both ends from the light board to the control board. Reseat them all after you trace them down. I had this exact same problem a few years ago with my 7.5v boards, and reseating them has fixed them ever since. GL

#5 1 year ago

thank you all for the suggestions. My machine is an early Emerald City with the wooden apron. I haven't had a chance to raise the playfield since last posting this due to a lack of time but I'm fairly certain I don't have 2.0 cables as listed in E24. Pretty sure I have the daisy chain setup.

I will attempt to check all the connections and hope for the best until hell freezes over and they produce more 2.0 kits.

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from twinzdad1029:

thank you all for the suggestions. My machine is an early Emerald City with the wooden apron. I haven't had a chance to raise the playfield since last posting this due to a lack of time but I'm fairly certain I don't have 2.0 cables as listed in E24. Pretty sure I have the daisy chain setup.
I will attempt to check all the connections and hope for the best until hell freezes over and they produce more 2.0 kits.

Yep. You’re gonna have to dump all the light boards if not 2.0. JJP support on these is clear. Sold my wozecle cuz of this bs. And good luck getting the boards.

#7 1 year ago

It's not all gloom and doom, but I would contact JJP tech support, download a copy of the OLD manual that still has the interconnect schematics for the older light boards.

Connectors!

A little bit about the theory of these light boards. The old ones would have a light run by a chip. This chip would be daisy chained to the next chip like:

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5.

Now you have a little glitch at the connector INTO 3. Lights 3,4,5 will all have problems. Basically anything 'downstream' from the problem is going to be haywire.

So, with the old schematics and a surprisingly difficult to follow lamp interconnect chart you find out that the problem is a single LED board. Replace that board and you are good there, and downstream. Replacing also wiggles the connection, so until the game vibrates the connection loose again, you are good.

The chips that were used for this daisy chain arrangement are no longer being produced, so the ONLY source of parts to fix your original lighting system is parts that have been removed from other JJP machines.

But it might not be a part! It could just be a connection. Wiggling it might make it connect for a long time, maybe for the life of the machine... but eventually that connection, or some connection is going to fail, and it's going to take all the lights downstream with it.

I had to wait close to year for the Lighting 2.0, but Jersey Jack did me right, they got my lighting system to me and once it was replaced I had no further problems on my prototype Emerald City machine.

The point is, get in touch with JJP's tech support, do what you can to fix the problems with your current lighting system, get on the list for the 2.0 lighting upgrade and all will eventually be well.

1 week later
#8 1 year ago

I would not rush in fixing the led issues with kit 2.0

From what I've understood, repairing old boards is easier than repairing 2.0 boards because it is almost impossible now to find the led driver for those new boards. For 1.x boards you just have to find someone with micro welding skills. Way lot easier than searching for a electronical component that is not manufactured anymore (which could also explain why 2.0 is out of stock since months?)

On top of that, it's easier to find old boards as many people have rushed on the 2.0 kit.

#9 1 year ago

What a tragedy for jacks first game to have these problems,I had to let mine go for these reasons even after changing all boards to 7.5

#10 1 year ago

A common problem starts with board #26. I replaced it with no avail. But when I swapped the cables to and from it the problem went away. The WOZ in Grandy had the same problem. My only guess is the cable gets magnetized over time.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from julien_06480:

I would not rush in fixing the led issues with kit 2.0
From what I've understood, repairing old boards is easier than repairing 2.0 boards because it is almost impossible now to find the led driver for those new boards. For 1.x boards you just have to find someone with micro welding skills. Way lot easier than searching for a electronical component that is not manufactured anymore (which could also explain why 2.0 is out of stock since months?)
On top of that, it's easier to find old boards as many people have rushed on the 2.0 kit.

A couple of things...

The design that has everything downstream of a problem fail any time that there is any problem anywhere in a 100+ lamp circuit, is by it's nature made to fail... badly. 2.0 fixes this.

The chip that you need for the original lamp boards CAN just be broken connections, but, having used a hot air rework station to reflow about a dozen different lamp board problems on my prototype Emerald City pinball, reflow only got two working. All the others required the unobtainable chip (I bought 20 of possibly the very last of these chips in existence).

Furthermore, after reflow a surprising number of the chips worked... for a day. Then it was intermittent problems again. You'll think you've gotten the problem fixed without replacing the chip, then it'll show up again.

Maddening enough if you can take your lamp boards to your workbench and do the work yourself, but a terrible problem if you send them to someone who does hot air rework on surface mount chips. Then the other guy is in the tough position of 'I fixed it, and it still doesn't work'.

So, you can maybe get a single weak link fixed this time and everything downstream will start working! Yay!

But there is going to be another failure. And then you'll get that problem fixed! Yay!

And then there is another failure. The chips are failing.

And even if you get the chips that drive the LED's working I had a number of the very hard to find multi-color LED's fail (would usually be purple instead of white). So you'll be sourcing those LED's. Another set of lamp problems.

This pain isn't going to end until you replace the whole kit with 2.0.

Also, the problem with 2.0 availability is NOTHING LIKE the earlier lighting systems' problems. The parts for 2.0 are going to be in production for the next 20 years, and while supplies may be limited right now, somebody is going to make more of the chips that 2.0 needs. And the way that 2.0 handles things, there will always be a fairly easy engineering work around that will allow the 2.0 boards to be repaired.

The earlier boards depended upon a chip from one manufacturer, and that manufacturer will never produce that kind of chip again. And the specific things that the original chip did make it very difficult to have an engineering work-around using discrete components.

As for finding the original boards... I'm not so sure that specific lamp boards that are working are easy to find now. There is definitely a very limited supply.

If you can find a temporary fix to your light problems, great! If that fix allows you to enjoy your machine for years, that is super great! But the other outcome... where you fix one thing and then another pops up and another and another has been my experience until 2.0 was installed.

#12 1 year ago

PinRetail Please put a ticket in at http://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/Support-Form/ and we'll help you with this.
Please register your game with us if you have not already done so. http://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/Game-Registration/

Previous posters are correct...the boards all daisy chain around the machine from 1 board to the next.
Issues on one board or its interconnect harness will cause problems with all boards downstream from it.
However, the software team put a workaround in place that will allow you to turn on and off certain boards if they are found to be the problem, which will allow the rest of the LEDs downstream from it to continue working.

2.0 light kits are on the horizon, rest assured. Supply chain issues with chips definitely put a hamper on things.

2 months later
#13 1 year ago

Are the 2.0 boards available individually? I do not see any on their site. I am having a slight lighting problem. Tinman lights will not light under test, but oddly they will light linked to the yellow brick road inserts. As you cycle through the yellow brick road inserts, Tinman inserts will light also one at a time (colored yellow). Durning a game they are lite dim yellow, with only "N" lighting bright yellow (probably with a yellow brick road advance I suspect.) So it looks like somehow they are shorted to the yellow brick road inserts.

I figured I would post this here also (original post in the owners group). Looking for some trouble shooting insight. In the meantime I am going to try and replace the main data cable from the MPU though my hopes are not too high on that being my problem.

#14 1 year ago

Things I have tried while I wait for a main data cable

* Pulled power from fish board. No change (other than the fish board did not light up obviously).

* Pulled data cables from all other boards. No change (fish board remained in the loop since it is a distribution hub).

* Switched data cables with another board. No change.

* Switched data ports at the fish board for the Tinman board with another boards data port. No change.

#15 1 year ago

Hey Pinstyle,

Call Jersey Jacks about this. Service support from JJP has always been top notch, and I'm sure they'll want to help you with this.

From my perspective, this is one of those problems where I would REALLY want to test the suspect part in a known good system. If I've got a board or cable that I think might be bad, take it to a known good machine and test it there.

Good luck, and let us know what you find!

#16 1 year ago

I already opened a ticket which I haven't done in years. It looks like their ticket system did not get any better over the years. Anyways, I was hoping to move some components back a forth between WOZ and Dialed In but the system in Dialed In is slightly different. So aside from moving cables around I can't really do much else between them. I will try and give them a call if I do not hear anything on the ticket in a another day or so. At least the game is playable for the time being. One thing I did notice is the colors are correct when the game is first powered up but then maybe 5-10 minutes later when things warm up the lights go goofy again. I am still thinking there is a way to diagnose this thing that I am just missing. The fish board being a distribution hub is what I am stuck on. Still waiting on a main data cable to see if maybe by some hope that is the problem.

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

Are the 2.0 boards available individually? I do not see any on their site.

This is another reason why people should not rush to 2.0 upgrade.
No spare part available for 2.0

#18 1 year ago

Sorry to hear on the lights. I am aware of this issue. I have a early WOZ machine and the lights are still working. Been lucky for now. I don’t own any other JJP games. I don’t feel the support on WOZ was very good. I had issues with the mini playfield. Eventually got a rebuilt one. Doors still stick but do open and reset at games end. I won’t buy JJP games. Stern and American Pinball only for now.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 16.95
Playfield - Protection
ULEKstore
Protection
From: $ 165.00
Lighting - Led
Pinball Mod Co.
Led
11,000 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Burlingame, CA
$ 43.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
Toys/Add-ons
From: $ 39.00
$ 100.00
Boards
Led Pinball
Boards
From: $ 12.00
Flipper Parts
Precision Pinball prod.
Flipper parts
$ 395.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pinball Mod Co.
Toys/Add-ons
From: $ 12.00
Flipper Parts
Precision Pinball prod.
Flipper parts
$ 55.00
Lighting - Other
Pinball Mod Co.
Other
$ 44.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
Shooter rods
$ 52.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
Shooter rods
$ 15.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
Sound/Speakers
$ 44.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
Shooter rods
From: $ 11.00
$ 649.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
From: $ 399.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
From: $ 5.00
Cabinet - Other
Pin Monk
Other
From: $ 90.00
Playfield - Other
RavSpec
Other
From: $ 54.00
$ 40.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
Toys/Add-ons
From: $ 35.00
Flipper Parts
Precision Pinball prod.
Flipper parts
From: $ 49.99
Flipper Parts
FlipMods
Flipper parts
11,000
Machine - For Sale
Nanaimo, BC
$ 345.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pinball Mod Co.
Toys/Add-ons
$ 49.99
Cabinet - Toppers
Lighted Pinball Mods
Toppers
From: $ 33.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Rocket City Pinball
Decorations
$ 130.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
Shooter rods
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Toms River, NJ
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wizard-or-oz-light-problem and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.