Quoted from Lermods:Same product made by us and sold by our partners, do your homework. Saw you were copying this too.
Also in jest, multiple people can make the same mod.
(Topic ID: 253323)
Linked Games
Wizard of Oz
Jersey Jack, 2013-
Wizard of Oz (Yellow Brick Road LE)
Jersey Jack, 2019
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Quoted from Deez:You should've just made knock off pinstadiums - people would be cheering instead of yelling.
Hah. I actually have a WOZ lighting kit that I like a lot better than pinstadiums, personally. But I do have an idea for a full playfield length lighting solution which will not bathe the playfield in light but rather give unique lighting to individual areas, fully configurable. Taking some time to develop but it could be an interesting option.
Quoted from Lermods:Same product made by us and sold by our partners, do your homework. Saw you were copying this too.
Ice-Cold-FreezeOtto (resized).jpgQuoted from shovelhed:No different than having your sparky painted. I think the real issue is Harry has called out other modders who have been assets to our community and they work together. Your attitude is less than desired and as a consumer you lost my wallet because of it.
Sorry that it wasn't clear that it was in jest. I own many of those mods I linked to. The point was that other people overlap constantly on the same mods.
Quoted from Lermods:Same product made by us and sold by our partners, do your homework. Saw you were copying this too.
Hard to do when one site doesn't list the manufacturer. The point still stands from my post.
Yeah, I'm copying a strip of LEDs. Better sue me. You must have some proprietary hold on the market. I doubt anything about mine is like yours, but I wouldn't know since I have never seen yours.
Quoted from harryhoudini:Sorry that it wasn't clear that it was in jest. I own many of those mods I linked to. The point was that other people overlap constantly on the same mods.
How was that long post in jest? That makes no sense.
And there IS some overlap in modding, but creatively on the same area in the same way there's rarely overlap. All the modders around here have been pretty respectful of the work other modders have done with very few exceptions. Some even team up on occasion.
Napa, CA
Harry, this is not a competition between modders, some do the same function but are not copies. Your witch mod does look like a copy just added bricks. It would have went a different way if you reached out to the original modder with you idea to copy and enhance his work. Its all about how you present it to the pin community and right now you have upset and disrespected alot of really good people and they will also speak with their wallets. A apology to all the people you have called out is a start. But please stop with this tough guy commando keyboard warrior rants about others and focus on you. Really you keep digging a hole you probably won’t recover from.
Quoted from PinMonk:How was that long post in jest? That makes no sense.
And there IS some overlap in modding, but creatively on the same area in the same way there's rarely overlap. All the modders around here have been pretty respectful of the work other modders have done with very few exceptions. Some even team up on occasion.
Did you look at the products I posted? They were all overlap (apparently except the lermods stuff is sold by both) of almost identical concepts. Some extremely close to others. To say to one mod manufacturer you can't make a cannon for the BP because someone else made a cannon is ridiculous. Did everyone blow up the POTC thread when different mod makers made the same items for the same game?
It is in jest because it's obvious it's a pick and choose as to whom is allowed to do what by the powers that be here. No one is throwing a tantrum because those people have the same mods. I'm happy to have a choice between Mezel and Modcouple, I have mods from both of them on my machines.
Tell me, did the pitchforks come out when Steve added the castle base to his original mod (which did not have it, which he commented looked like it needed it, etc)? Because he didn't come up with the base, it existed before his mod was ever conceived in public. Why was that ok? He literally copied what existed and being sold still at the time. Hypocrites.
Quoted from shovelhed:Harry, this is not a competition between modders, some do the same function but are not copies. Your witch mod does look like a copy just added bricks. It would have went a different way if you reached out to the original modder with you idea to copy and enhance his work. Its all about how you present it to the pin community and right now you have upset and disrespected alot of really good people and they will also speak with their wallets. A apology to all the people you have called out is a start. But please stop with this tough guy commando keyboard warrior rants about others and focus on you. Really you keep digging a hole you probably won’t recover from.
You, and many others, have a skewed view of what you think is allowed and proper. I didn't call anyone out, everyone is free to make the mods they want and everyone else can choose which mods they want to purchase. If folks don't want to purchase what I make for whatever reason they are free to make that choice. Comparing several mods which are the same for the same game made by different manufacturers isn't calling anyone out, unless you believe that it isn't proper for those mods to be created by multiple people. So, which is it?
It's fun to jump on a bandwagon and get riled up behind a cause. If those folks can't see that there is much hypocrisy in their position it is not within my power to fix them. You all have no explanations or excuses for those who have duplicative mods which I linked to, yet somehow you want to throw me under the bus because it's all the rage right now.
Quoted from shovelhed:some do the same function but are not copies
Sit with this quote for a while and let me know how you want to explain that nuance to me. I'd love to hear the mindset of people who think those other mods "do the same function but are not copies" and how my witch flame mod "does the same function" but is somehow a copy. You know, the flames... with the interactive flame lighting.. with the ruby red or emerald green, which none of exist in any other witch mod.
Steve didn't create the witch mod. Steve didn't create the castle well mod. Go post up a storm in his thread about how tee'd off you are at his blatant copying of those elements.
Quoted from shovelhed:Harry, this is not a competition between modders, some do the same function but are not copies. Your witch mod does look like a copy just added bricks. It would have went a different way if you reached out to the original modder with you idea to copy and enhance his work. Its all about how you present it to the pin community and right now you have upset and disrespected alot of really good people and they will also speak with their wallets. A apology to all the people you have called out is a start. But please stop with this tough guy commando keyboard warrior rants about others and focus on you. Really you keep digging a hole you probably won’t recover from.
I disagree. I dont think it looks like it at all. The witch is the witch from the movie, so thats going to be set. Other than that, the mod does look different.
And I am going off of the updated look which is this:
pasted_image (resized).pngI also just got in the most dense string of 5050 LEDs I could find. They cost a ton but I think it will give a much more overall glow. I also got in the diffusion material so we'll have a test up soon with those new changes. Still doing some fine tuning on the witch, expect that reveal soon. Been working on the flame programming and it's getting there. Have a nice low rumble going on and working on the animation to get it to a roaring blaze. I can't wait to see what that looks like in the smokey white flames..
Oh, this thing is so well designed with such tight tolerances that the two pieces lock together without any adhesive. More environmentally friendly, lol.. and you can swap them out at your leisure and change up your game. Have one of every color, get new ones as we change up the lineup.
That being said. Anyone who gets in on the discounted presale will get one additional flame shield with their order. I'm not sure how much those will be priced individually but we're talking at least $30. The 10% discount is still hanging around if you want to get in on the presale.
Quoted from arcadenerd925:Sorry, but this is a blatant rip off of Steve's red smoke witch mod not matter how you slice it.
If you're pissed you couldn't find one and try to replicate it for your own machine, I kind-of get it, but to duplicate it and then try to sell it for profit? not cool.
For many people in this hobby integrity matters, and you just lost it.
Quoted from PinMonk:Whether or not Steve's design is available for purchase at any point in time does not provide a green light to just rip it off to supply pent-up demand with an inferior version of his creative work. Try that line of reasoning with Disney products that are limited edition or out of print sometime and count the seconds until you're sued. Stealing a design is stealing a design, and that's what you've done. The worst part about it is it was completely unnecessary. There were other ways to creatively mod that witch that haven't been done even now if you really wanted to provide something cool to that market.
Anyway, I just dropped in to rebut the "but there weren't any to buy" excuse. I'm done droning on about this. It's not my mod, but I felt offended that you so blatantly ripped off a valued pinsider's original work and felt I had to speak out about so if anyone else is tempted in the future to do something like this they might have second thoughts.
This line of thinking sounds disingenuous to me. Currently hundreds of pinsiders enjoy CGC’s remakes of MM, AFM and Monster Bash. CGC made them precisely because there was pent-up demand for these titles. I’m not sure why mod making is any different, other than you feel a local mod maker is a more tangible community member that deserves special treatment, a “valued pinsider”. I don’t recall CGC asking Brian Eddy or George Gomez whether it’s ok to remake their games, and I’m sure they’re not getting royalties.
This is separate from Houdini’s attitude, which does not help his position.
Quoted from phoenixpin:This line of thinking sounds disingenuous to me. Currently hundreds of pinsiders enjoy CGC’s remakes of MM, AFM and Monster Bash. CGC made them precisely because there was pent-up demand for these titles. I’m not sure why mod making is any different, other than you feel a local mod maker is a more tangible community member that deserves special treatment, a “valued pinsider”. I don’t recall CGC asking Brian Eddy or George Gomez whether it’s ok to remake their games, and I’m sure they’re not getting royalties.
This is separate from Houdini’s attitude, which does not help his position.
You don’t think CGC had to pay to replicate B/W games? I’d be shocked if that was the case.
Quoted from TaylorVA:You don’t think CGC had to pay to replicate B/W games? I’d be shocked if that was the case.
Totally agree CGC had to pay. I don't think Gomez or Eddy were paid, but I imagine the rights to the B/W games were bought fair and square. My point is that as long as decisions on what to produce are legal (and I do not believe there is any legal ownership or patent obtained over the creation of a mod), I don't see the need to hate on Houdini here. We all regularly use products in our daily life and even in our pinball life that are near copies of something someone else produced. And if the demand is there, I don't see faulting someone for legally increasing the supply of a desired product.
As one more example, some mod makers here produce a Gobstopper shooter rod for Willy Wonka. If I am wrong let me know and I will say so, but I bet they never asked JJP for permission there nor did they think of the idea themselves. And I don't see the hate directed to them for it.
Quoted from phoenixpin:Totally agree CGC had to pay. I don't think Gomez or Eddy were paid, but I imagine the rights to the B/W games were bought fair and square. My point is that as long as decisions on what to produce are legal (and I do not believe there is any legal ownership or patent obtained over the creation of a mod), I don't see the need to hate on Houdini here. We all regularly use products in our daily life and even in our pinball life that are near copies of something someone else produced. And if the demand is there, I don't see faulting someone for legally increasing the supply of a desired product.
As one more example, some mod makers here produce a Gobstopper shooter rod for Willy Wonka. If I am wrong let me know and I will say so, but I bet they never asked JJP for permission there nor did they think of the idea themselves. And I don't see the hate directed to them for it.
There’s no legal standing to any of the modding community’s products, despite all the hard work that goes into them.
My view is that this is akin to a “party foul” where IMO Scott should have reached out to Gouveia, given the fairly stark similarity to his mod. Did he have to do this? No, absolutely not. But would it have saved all this shitstorm? Yes IMO it would have.
Scott gives very clear credit for the JJP chest mod he produces, so I believe him when he says he didn’t think this mod was that similar to the other witch mod. I personally disagree, and think it would have been smart to at least reach out, or acknowledge it - but again this is more of a “mod community norms” thing than some legal situation.
what we are all talking about is respect for each other’s work.
Anyway, the mod looks good, he has doubled down on pushing back (I might have cautioned you against that one Scott) and will still produce it. Scott’s (Harry’s 
) support and follow through is EXCELLENT. I have not had the fortune to install one of the Red Witch smoke mods but I understand that is kick ass too.
so - for me - while I think he should give a nod to the original, he doesn’t really “need” to, it’s just a matter of how the community responds at this point.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:There’s no legal standing to any of the modding community’s products, despite all the hard work that goes into them.
My view is that this is akin to a “party foul” where IMO Scott should have reached out to Gouveia, given the fairly stark similarity to his mod. Did he have to do this? No, absolutely not. But would it have saved all this shitstorm? Yes IMO it would have.
Scott gives very clear credit for the JJP chest mod he produces, so I believe him when he says he didn’t think this mod was that similar to the other witch mod. I personally disagree, and think it would have been smart to at least reach out, or acknowledge it - but again this is more of a “mod community norms” thing than some legal situation.
what we are all talking about is respect for each other’s work.
Anyway, the mod looks good, he has doubled down on pushing back (I might have cautioned you against that one Scott) and will still produce it. Scott’s (Harry’s ) support and follow through is EXCELLENT. I have not had the fortune to install one of the Red Witch smoke mods but I understand that is kick ass too.
so - for me - while I think he should give a nod to the original, he doesn’t really “need” to, it’s just a matter of how the community responds at this point.
I dont see a point in doing that. It has been out of production for like 2 years. So what would happen, he reaches out and then gets told no, I am going to do a rerun at some time and then what?
Everyone has been wanting a witch mod, so to me, if you snooze you lose and someone jumped on the opportunity.
Quoted from Rager170:I dont see a point in doing that. It has been out of production for like 2 years. So what would happen, he reaches out and then gets told no, I am going to do a rerun at some time and then what?
Everyone has been wanting a witch mod, so to me, if you snooze you lose and someone jumped on the opportunity.
“Hey just wanted you to know I’m going to be working on a new mod, and since you created the first one, thought you should know”. Again (hey is this the third time Now?) a mod creator doesn’t NEED to do this. But that’s the difference between the respectful way and the dick move way. I should repeat I believe Scott when he says he didn’t think they were that similar. Mod creating isn’t cutthroat business, we’re all doing this hobby because we want to, not because there’s tons of money in it.
The new Creature mod creators reached out to PinballMikeD AFAIK, as he had clearly stated he was done doing his mod
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:“Hey just wanted you to know I’m going to be working on a new mod, and since you created the first one, thought you should know”
The new Creature mod creators reached out to PinballMikeD AFAIK
Yea I dont see the point in that what so ever.
To me the pinball " community" should welcome what looks like an improvement on a mod that has undergone a few iterations from the original mod . It looks quite a bit different from the " add flame" mod. The lighting effects look great!
To me the word community conjures up more the concept of people sharing a common interest and sharing of ideas and welcoming innovation . Selling a mod for profit is business not really community as it has been used in this thread .If you feel stongly about others copying or improving on your original ideas , then incorporate patent protection into your products . Good luck getting a patent for the witch well design if anything the only potentially patentable design is the orginal jp ( " witch in tube that rises from pinball playfield") .Realistically no one is going to go to the time and expense of this otherwise come up with something so unigue no one else can make and the market and money is all yours! Otherwise do it the pinside way and have people discredit the new guy. Whatever the " mod community norms" it seems like the goal is to benefit the mod business rather than the pinball community as a whole.
I think harry might be a little lacking in the social skills but has some expertise in 3d printing and electronics and as well production capabilities to meet demand which looks promising for present and future great pinball mods .
a quick search of goggle shows a quite a few designs of the witch with flames in the background predating the " flame" mod .
180123707_the-wizard-of-oz-wicked-witch-figurine-by-avon-enesco (resized).jpgI hope to be posting a very special update regarding the witch here shortly. Good things 
I have been working on the new lighting array. We are printing, what I hope, is the final version of each element. I have the paints needed to do the YBR version and will get a sample of that posted soon.
Everyone who gets in on the pre-order will get contacted before we ship to ask them which color they want for the 2nd flame shield. That way I can get a chance to post finished versions of each one lit up and you can see all options.
Quoted from harryhoudini:I hope to be posting a very special update regarding the witch here shortly. Good things
I have been working on the new lighting array. We are printing, what I hope, is the final version of each element. I have the paints needed to do the YBR version and will get a sample of that posted soon.
Everyone who gets in on the pre-order will get contacted before we ship to ask them which color they want for the 2nd flame shield. That way I can get a chance to post finished versions of each one lit up and you can see all options.
Easier mod to install than your POTC trunk? That one broke me.
Quoted from adamross:Easier mod to install than your POTC trunk? That one broke me.
Heh, much. Just remove the old, drop in the new. Fish a wire down through the witch hole (heh) and plug it in. You can set some options with a push button keypad for color and speed for flames. That's about it.
Swapping the flame shield is pop off and on. It's held in with pressure, it clicks in to place. The LEDs are either going to be swappable or each shield will have a set, I haven't settled on that yet. They will be socketed either way so you can remove them without having to remove the wiring.
The micro controller plugs right in to existing molex connections for the power and signals it needs.
Happy to announce that we are proud to be offering the sillyoldelf witch figure as the final piece to our flaming witch mod. I have long loved this figure and when I was originally searching for my own game this figure wasn't available anywhere to purchase. Working with
sillyoldelf we were able to license this figure while helping
sillyoldelf raise funds for a charity he supports.
If you haven't seen the figure before, here are some prior images. I have, what I hope, are the final flames on the printer right now. Already have the final base printed and all the LED components here. I'll be painting a YBR version of the flames for viewing, as well. Once I have the flames ready I'll post a pic of the whole thing installed, final version. Then lights!
2b341ec9b2aa55ace2458d6bd8da5f2a47e28489 (resized).jpgdb767527e67ccab9642e780fb46d941bc5e01676 (resized).jpgFlaming Witch Blacked Out Edition
I think that's pretty much the finished design. Working on a few technical changes to accommodate some of the lighting elements. This is a raw print with no finishing and low quality, fyi. Can't wait to do the finish work on one and post the actual quality you'll be getting.
The witches are being sent to a SLS resin printing company to have the most detail possible.
Are the green eyes and the red flaming fists of interest to anyone? I wasn't planning on doing it but sillyoldelf did some cool lighting and so maybe that's something that's wanted.
pasted_image (resized).pngIgnore the print lines, again low quality test print (or the shape, very old version). I think I have the YBR color about right. Still haven't found one local to test so maybe I can send it to someone to match. Not sure how popular it will be but I wanted to get it right for some other mods.
Nice day here
Working on the lighting today, it is going to be awesome. Will post a video when I have all the sequences done.
pasted_image (resized).pngIt was brought to my attention that some people may not know about the witch lighting mods and I had a request for functionality that would take advantage of this.
Here is what sillyoldelf posted when he did this originally:
pasted_image (resized).png
The request was that this would be an option so when Fireball Frenzy mode was activated these lights would turn on. I am working on a prototype to detect this kind of mode change for another mod coming out soon and so if that goes well this should be doable. It would not be fesible in the timeframe to produce the mod without the lighting addon but I have some ideas on how that would be able to play out for those who would be interested versus those who are not (or not right now). I think we can provide an upgrade kit for this if you wanted it down the line and if you know you want it now then we can hold your order until it would be ready.
Open to feedback and thoughts on interest.
Cool, sounds like there might be a few people. I have a few other electrical mods on my plate but I'll check in to the ability to read the fireball frenzy mode and update here.
Made some changes to the witch to allow for the wires for the lighting mod, FYI. Looks like everything is pretty much set model-wise. Continuing to work on the flame lighting this weekend.
Quoted from harryhoudini:Continuing to work on the flame lighting this weekend.
Have you seen the LED lights on Amazon that emulate a flickering flame? Not sure if they come in sizes small enough for a pinball machine.
I've done a lot of research on the flickering flame bulbs. We actually ended up making our own mini wedge bulbs that are for sale now.
https://pinballmods.co/pinball-lighting/flickering-flame-pinball-wedge-bulb
We use them in the flickering flame for the balloon: https://pinballmods.co/pinball-mods/WOZ-flickering-flame-balloon-JJP
And for the POTC window: https://pinballmods.co/pinball-mods/Stand-up-illuminated-window-jjp-potc
There are not many bulbs that really look like flames. Comet sells a "fire" bulb but it's hardly realistic, sadly. I asked them to make these bulbs but never heard back.
But for this situation we are using WS2812B addressable 5050 LEDs which are controlled with a micro controller. The controller reads signals from the game to determine what state the witch is in and goes through a sequence of flame effects in which the fire grows up from the bottom when the witch rises and puts on another show when she is defeated. I'm going to work on a requested integration with fireball frenzy which would let me do some further flame effects during Frenzy and then also, optionally, the witch can have glowing hands of fire which turn on when FF is active. That will come later as I won't have time before we need to start shipping these.
A bit behind on the lighting but we made some final, final changes to the flame and base to clean it all up and adjust a few areas and already started printing them in earnest. So that's on schedule. I'll be asking for 2nd flame shield choices here shortly and the pre-sale is going to be done.
The controller is being tested and will be in production here shortly. All of the hardware parts are on order and should be here soon as well.
The witch has been modified to be ready for lighting if I end up doing that.
The lighting took a bit of reconfiguring and testing with various LED strip layouts, densities and sizes and I think it's pretty well set in the hardware. Now just to finish up the software.
This is getting pretty advanced with the fireball frenzy hands if that all works out. Pretty cool. Following.
Toronto, ON
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