New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 128036)

Wizard of Oz Pinball - APRON SCREEN (MOD)


By levi_br

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 452 posts
  • 106 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Rdoyle1978
  • Topic is favorited by 109 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic poll

“What did you think about this WOZ mod? (Maybe I will post a tutorial for this)”

  • Love 148 votes
    71%
  • Like 55 votes
    26%
  • Hate 6 votes
    3%

(Multiple choice - 209 votes)

Topic Gallery

There have been 47 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

20170511_185152 (resized).jpg
20170511_184953 (resized).jpg
IMG_6993 (resized).PNG
IMG_6988 (resized).JPG
IMG_6987 (resized).JPG
IMG_6986 (resized).JPG
20161117_174429 (resized).jpg
ApronMonitor02 (resized).jpg
ApronMonitor03 (resized).jpg
ApronMonitor01 (resized).jpg
woz-resolution2 (resized).jpg
woz-resolution1 (resized).jpg
IMG_0330 (resized).JPG
IMG_5126 (resized).JPG
IMG_5125 (resized).JPG
image_5.jpg

There are 452 posts in this topic. You are on page 8 of 10.
#351 3 years ago
Quoted from Phantom1911:

I installed Keith's little patch, it didn't fully restore my mod, but it did fix my work around.

Where did you get that and does it also work with your TH too? Details please ...

#352 3 years ago

I used the secondary vga connector to connect the main screen. I didn't have a dvi-I cord so I used a dvi-d to hdmi cord for the small monitor. I ordered a dvi-I to hdmi and a dvi-I to vga. I hope one of those will fully fix the screen.

#353 3 years ago
Quoted from KingBW:

Where did you get that and does it also work with your TH too? Details please ...

As far as I know it's just a generic VGA to HDMI converter. I picked it up at an electronics shop that I've been going to for years. Unfortunately they don't sell online. I haven't tried to put this mod on TH.

#354 3 years ago
Quoted from Phantom1911:

As far as I know it's just a generic VGA to HDMI converter. I picked it up at an electronics shop that I've been going to for years. Unfortunately they don't sell online. I haven't tried to put this mod on TH.

So to be clear, your mod still works?

#355 3 years ago
Quoted from Phantom1911:

As far as I know it's just a generic VGA to HDMI converter. I picked it up at an electronics shop that I've been going to for years. Unfortunately they don't sell online. I haven't tried to put this mod on TH.

What is "Keith's little patch" you mentioned?

#356 3 years ago
Quoted from paynemic:

So to be clear, your mod still works?

It does, using the VGA to HDMI adapter.

Quoted from bobukcat:

What is "Keith's little patch" you mentioned?

It's a tiny delta that Keith put out to a few people with this mod in an attempt to fix it. It didn't work as hoped, but did restore my work around. The delta was offered with absolutely no guarantee that it wouldn't screw something else up and is not officially supported.

#357 3 years ago
Quoted from Phantom1911:

It does, using the VGA to HDMI adapter.

It's a tiny delta that Keith put out to a few people with this mod in an attempt to fix it. It didn't work as hoped, but did restore my work around. The delta was offered with absolutely no guarantee that it wouldn't screw something else up and is not officially supported.

Is your "work around" the VGA to HDMI Adapter?

That's what I'm using and of course, the image on the screen scales to a place that only allows me to see the upper left quarter of the full screen. I wander if the Delta would work with my setup?

#358 3 years ago

The issue is linux is forcing a larger resolution than the smaller (apron) screen can support, and it ends up panning rather than scaling the screen down. This is why you only see the top corner of the screen rather than the entire thing.

One solution would be to have xrandr scale based off the original size of the primary screen (1920x1080 on newer models) down to the max resolution that the apron monitor can support. I've done this with an old monitor I had laying around that supports resolutions up to 1440x900. It looks good so far, but I'm waiting to see how it looks on a smaller apron monitor. The bonus is the main monitor stays at 1920x1080.

If it looks good, then this would be a software solution, and you wouldn't need to buy anymore items beyond what the original tutorial mentions. I'll report back when the new apron monitor gets in and I can try it out.

Using SW ver: 6.06

Before
woz-resolution1 (resized).jpg

After
woz-resolution2 (resized).jpg

#359 3 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

The issue is linux is forcing a larger resolution than the smaller (apron) screen can support, and it ends up panning rather than scaling the screen down. This is why you only see the top corner of the screen rather than the entire thing.
One solution would be to have xrandr scale based off the original size of the primary screen (1920x1080 on newer models) down to the max resolution that the apron monitor can support. I've done this with an old monitor I had laying around that supports resolutions up to 1440x900. It looks good so far, but I'm waiting to see how it looks on a smaller apron monitor. The bonus is the main monitor stays at 1920x1080.
If it looks good, then this would be a software solution, and you wouldn't need to buy anymore items beyond what the original tutorial mentions. I'll report back when the new apron monitor gets in and I can try it out.
Using SW ver: 6.06
Before

After

Sounds good, will be watching

#360 3 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

The issue is linux is forcing a larger resolution than the smaller (apron) screen can support, and it ends up panning rather than scaling the screen down. This is why you only see the top corner of the screen rather than the entire thing.
One solution would be to have xrandr scale based off the original size of the primary screen (1920x1080 on newer models) down to the max resolution that the apron monitor can support. I've done this with an old monitor I had laying around that supports resolutions up to 1440x900. It looks good so far, but I'm waiting to see how it looks on a smaller apron monitor. The bonus is the main monitor stays at 1920x1080.
If it looks good, then this would be a software solution, and you wouldn't need to buy anymore items beyond what the original tutorial mentions. I'll report back when the new apron monitor gets in and I can try it out.
Using SW ver: 6.06
Before

After

DeeGor for president!!!

#361 3 years ago

So my cheap $30 monitor I bought from Amazon came in tonight, and the code changes I've made works with the new monitor. I was wondering how it would look since the max resolution of this monitor is 800x480, but it looks fine to me. I'll submit this change to JJP and hopefully they'll be able to use it.

ApronMonitor01 (resized).jpg
ApronMonitor02 (resized).jpg
ApronMonitor03 (resized).jpg

#362 3 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

So my cheap $30 monitor I bought from Amazon came in tonight, and the code changes I've made works with the new monitor. I was wondering how it would look since the max resolution of this monitor is 800x480, but it looks fine to me. I'll submit this change to JJP and hopefully they'll be able to use it.

That's great! Please keep us in the know

#363 3 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

I'll submit this change to JJP and hopefully they'll be able to use it.

Email the info to Keith and Jack so that it get's direct attention! Good find/fix! I hope we hear back some good news soon.

#364 3 years ago

Can this work for the hobbit somehow if you split the main screen signal since the other port is tied up w the book screen info? Would a descaler work ?

#366 3 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

So my cheap $30 monitor I bought from Amazon came in tonight, and the code changes I've made works with the new monitor. I was wondering how it would look since the max resolution of this monitor is 800x480, but it looks fine to me. I'll submit this change to JJP and hopefully they'll be able to use it.

Is the resolution on the main screen still high res? 1080?

#367 3 years ago
Quoted from ulmpharmd:

Can this work for the hobbit somehow if you split the main screen signal since the other port is tied up w the book screen info? Would a descaler work ?

I don't think a splitter won't work with this software based solution. You really need an open video port. A USB to VGA or HDMI adapter might work, but very few are actually supported under linux. The few that I found that were linux compatible are USB-C only. I'm not sure if Hobbit PCs have a USB-C port.

#368 3 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Is the resolution on the main screen still high res? 1080?

The main screen is still 1920x1080.

#369 3 years ago
Quoted from ulmpharmd:

Can this work for the hobbit somehow if you split the main screen signal since the other port is tied up w the book screen info? Would a descaler work ?

What are you looking to do specifically? Have the main screen mirrored to the apron?

I would have thought that the book mirrored to the apron would be more useful as it has the prompts for what to do during most modes.
There is the issue that during mini wizard modes that the instructions are on the main screen bottom right corner "ie. bash 10 wargs" etc.

And a general apron display question. Has anyone made nice bezels for their screens?

#370 3 years ago
Quoted from koops:

What are you looking to do specifically? Have the main screen mirrored to the apron?
I would have thought that the book mirrored to the apron would be more useful as it has the prompts for what to do during most modes.
There is the issue that during mini wizard modes that the instructions are on the main screen bottom right corner "ie. bash 10 wargs" etc.
And a general apron display question. Has anyone made nice bezels for their screens?

The issue with mirroring displays on the Hobbit, is there are no open ports on the computer like there are with woz. I've been looking into some USB based display adapters that work well under linux, and I've found some possible candidates. If they work, then it would be possible to mirror either of the screens to the apron monitor.

As for bezels, I used red glitter tape on my apron monitor for woz. It looks pretty good.

20161117_174429 (resized).jpg

#371 3 years ago

Deegor you da man!

#372 3 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

The issue with mirroring displays on the Hobbit, is there are no open ports on the computer like there are with woz. I've been looking into some USB based display adapters that work well under linux, and I've found some possible candidates. If they work, then it would be possible to mirror either of the screens to the apron monitor.
As for bezels, I used red glitter tape on my apron monitor for woz. It looks pretty good.

If we are really going for it on hobbit, how about 2 monitors and mirror BOTH screens?!

#373 3 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

The issue with mirroring displays on the Hobbit, is there are no open ports on the computer like there are with woz. I've been looking into some USB based display adapters that work well under linux, and I've found some possible candidates. If they work, then it would be possible to mirror either of the screens to the apron monitor.
As for bezels, I used red glitter tape on my apron monitor for woz. It looks pretty good.

That's great! Can't wait to see what kind of results you discover

#374 3 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

The issue with mirroring displays on the Hobbit, is there are no open ports on the computer like there are with woz. I've been looking into some USB based display adapters that work well under linux, and I've found some possible candidates. If they work, then it would be possible to mirror either of the screens to the apron monitor.
As for bezels, I used red glitter tape on my apron monitor for woz. It looks pretty good.

Hi deegor,

Wow that looks good. Can you say us which components you used and how wie get it worked ourselfs? That would be aweseome.

Die you made any modifications ?

Thank you

#375 3 years ago

Curious how you modified the code? Can we get root on these boxes? And then you modified the Xorg config I'm assuming?

#376 3 years ago
Quoted from KingBW:

Email the info to Keith and Jack so that it get's direct attention! Good find/fix! I hope we hear back some good news soon.

I have given JJP the code. Hopefully it's useful to them.

Quoted from MightyGrave:

Hi deegor,
Wow that looks good. Can you say us which components you used and how wie get it worked ourselfs? That would be aweseome.
Die you made any modifications ?
Thank you

I purchased this monitor from Amazon, because it was pretty cheap, and shipping on it was really fast.

amazon.com link »

To be honest, I'm not real happy with it. The cable between the monitor and the controller board is pretty short, so that didn't give me a whole lot of room to place the controller board where I would have liked to. Right now the controller board is primarily being held in place by the VGA cable (which you will have to buy as well), but that doesn't feel very sturdy to me. I will likely pick up another monitor with a longer cable.

The monitor also need s a power source, the monitor I purchased didn't come with one. You can either pick up an adapter (Between 5 and 12v) or pick up just a 2.1mm barrel connector. I went the adapter route, since I had an extra one in my house, but I believe Levi_br shows instructions on how to wire up a barrel connector directly to the game. This would be the preferred method, as it turns off when the machine turns off. With the adapter the power stays on, even after the game is turned off. The monitor does go into a sleep mode after it looses it's VGA connection, so at least there's that.

Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Curious how you modified the code? Can we get root on these boxes? And then you modified the Xorg config I'm assuming?

Yeah, the OS is running Ubuntu. No magic there. I used xrandr to mirror and scale dynamically, since not all monitors have the same exact resolution.

#377 3 years ago
Quoted from paynemic:

If we are really going for it on hobbit, how about 2 monitors and mirror BOTH screens?!

Main issue would be that you are squishing down an already packed 24" into say 5". Won't be able to read a thing, however if someone was smart enough to get it to zoom around portions of the screen when appropriate that would be a different kettle of fish!

#378 3 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

I have given JJP the code. Hopefully it's useful to them.

Keith said that he hopes to look at this soon.

#379 3 years ago
Quoted from KingBW:

Keith said that he hopes to look at this soon.

Yahoo!

3 months later
#380 3 years ago

Any news here? I understand there's an update in the wild, does it help our apron mod?

#381 3 years ago

I tired to read through all of the posts here to make sense of where this mod stands. Is there anyone out there that can answer the following?

1) Does this mod still make sense?
2) What LCD should I buy?
3) Does the original tutorial (post #73? work)?
4) Are we waiting on JJP for some software fix?

Also wonder if there are people out there that could make a nice cool scroll like frame for the LCD (kind of like the scrolls on the CV header). It would make the LCD adapt better to the wood apron.

Thanks guys...love this board! The sharing of info and creativity is second to none.

Dave

#382 3 years ago
Quoted from iamabearsfan:

I tired to read through all of the posts here to make sense of where this mod stands. Is there anyone out there that can answer the following?
1) Does this mod still make sense?
2) What LCD should I buy?
3) Does the original tutorial (post #73? work)?
4) Are we waiting on JJP for some software fix?
Also wonder if there are people out there that could make a nice cool scroll like frame for the LCD (kind of like the scrolls on the CV header). It would make the LCD adapt better to the wood apron.
Thanks guys...love this board! The sharing of info and creativity is second to none.
Dave

There's not a solid fix for this that is available to the public..

I'd like to put my screen back in, it makes sense to me

The tutorial should be good still.

There's an issue with Linux and having 2 screens outputting 2 different resolutions

#383 3 years ago

There is a solution, but it involves hacking the code (Linux kernel?). If there is a new release, it will likely be an option as the hacker (not me, FYI) is in contact with jjp, I believe.

#384 3 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

There's not a solid fix for this that is available to the public..
I'd like to put my screen back in, it makes sense to me
The tutorial should be good still.
There's an issue with Linux and having 2 screens outputting 2 different resolutions

Wonder if there is an HDMI splitter that supports changing resolutions on the fly?

#385 3 years ago

I think most of the alternatives have been tested - bottom line unless JJP updates the code, this won't work.

I was able to get it adding a few lines to the startup, but it would be overwritten any time there was an update and you d have to apply the changes again.

When we had our WOZ I did think this was a cool feature - but then the screen broke because the way you have to install the screen itself puts too much pressure on the Connections. Way too frustrating in the end

#386 3 years ago
Quoted from iamabearsfan:

Wonder if there is an HDMI splitter that supports changing resolutions on the fly?

There is... it's really expensive for trying to accomplish this

Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

I think most of the alternatives have been tested - bottom line unless JJP updates the code, this won't work.
I was able to get it adding a few lines to the startup, but it would be overwritten any time there was an update and you d have to apply the changes again.
When we had our WOZ I did think this was a cool feature - but then the screen broke because the way you have to install the screen itself puts too much pressure on the Connections. Way too frustrating in the end

Yes, this is true, you have to be very careful every time the playfield is lifted and lowered, the connections are paper thin ribbon cables, if you even look at them wrong they will rip

#387 3 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

There is... it's really expensive for trying to accomplish this

Yes, this is true, you have to be very careful every time the playfield is lifted and lowered, the connections are paper thin ribbon cables, if you even look at them wrong they will rip

That said, it *is* really cool if it worked. Check out the Alien thread for an idea of how it would look. Theirs is in the playfield, but it's still fairly similar in concept.

Too bad this won't work for TH

#388 3 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

That said, it *is* really cool if it worked. Check out the Alien thread for an idea of how it would look. Theirs is in the playfield, but it's still fairly similar in concept.
Too bad this won't work for TH

Why would that be?

I can understand that the existing screen on the hobbit would be far too dense in detail to make it useful.
I currently have all the parts to make one happen and possibly enough technical knowledge aswell.
Not sure if the effort would justify the outcome.

1 month later
#389 3 years ago
Quoted from koops:

Why would that be?
I can understand that the existing screen on the hobbit would be far too dense in detail to make it useful.
I currently have all the parts to make one happen and possibly enough technical knowledge aswell.
Not sure if the effort would justify the outcome.

It's because the computer used in both games only has 2 output ports for video. In WOZ the game only uses one, and the crystal ball is fired off a small LCD screen with an SD card, but it is basically not connected to the computer at all.

For TH, the second screen (the book? I forget what it's used for) is plugged directly into the computer, using up the 2nd port - there's no way to get a 3rd screen going in the game

#390 3 years ago

A vga splitter will get the small book LCD to another screen. You could also use USB hdmi adaptors to add more screens if you have a method to utilise them.

What I have found is if I scrape the frame buffer I can see both screens at once.

Sample capture: https://i.imgur.com/LSA4zsW.png

The small screen is actually inverted.

#391 3 years ago

The problem with video output splitters, is you will have the same resolution on each monitor. You really need a dedicated video output, so that you can set the resolution properly for the apron monitor.

I've purchased a USB to VGA adapter, to see if this would be a viable solution for the Hobbit. So far, I've been able to get it working with my Ubuntu 16.04 laptop, but it would require Hobbit owners to gain root access to their machines, and install the displaylink driver for it to work. Then you'd have to modify some of the startup scripts to force the correct resolution on the apron monitor.

It's definitely possible to get working, but it is somewhat of a painful setup.

#392 3 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

The problem with video output splitters, is you will have the same resolution on each monitor. You really need a dedicated video output, so that you can set the resolution properly for the apron monitor.
I've purchased a USB to VGA adapter, to see if this would be a viable solution for the Hobbit. So far, I've been able to get it working with my Ubuntu 16.04 laptop, but it would require Hobbit owners to gain root access to their machines, and install the displaylink driver for it to work. Then you'd have to modify some of the startup scripts to force the correct resolution on the apron monitor.
It's definitely possible to get working, but it is somewhat of a painful setup.

Adding drivers is a huge pain yes - and any time you did an update, you'd have to reinstall everything. You CAN do this; we did it on WOZ, but I must have spent 20 hours just fiddling - This is why I finally gave up on the WOZ one. Unless JJP incorporates the changes, it's going to be painful to maintain.

#393 3 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

It's definitely possible to get working, but it is somewhat of a painful setup.

Your not wrong. Its not something the average joe should probably attempt.

I wonder if you could use a 3rd screen for something else. Instead of just mirroring an existing screen have it show something else entirely.

What information would be useful?

With how the hobbit/woz works you can pull data from the sqlite database (im already doing this for another external application) but i'm just not sure what sort of info would be useful.

#394 3 years ago
Quoted from koops:

Your not wrong. Its not something the average joe should probably attempt.
I wonder if you could use a 3rd screen for something else. Instead of just mirroring an existing screen have it show something else entirely.
What information would be useful?
With how the hobbit/woz works you can pull data from the sqlite database (im already doing this for another external application) but i'm just not sure what sort of info would be useful.

It would be handy to view the manual or service menus with the PF up on a tablet or something via the HDMI.

1 week later
#395 3 years ago

I think I've figured it out.

IMG_6986 (resized).JPG

IMG_6987 (resized).JPG

IMG_6988 (resized).JPG

#396 3 years ago

Details please!

#397 3 years ago

Nice and simple! Does that connector handle the resolution downscaling? It must

#398 3 years ago

And my usual question, I wonder if that would work in the hobbit?

#399 3 years ago

I used a powered vga splitter. Used the VGA port in the back of the monitor and connected the small monitor up and turned it on. Powered vga splitter uses a USB port in the back of the computer to power it. Vga splitter is about $27.00 similar to this. amazon.com link »

#400 3 years ago

Great, anyone has a link to a 1920x1024 7" lcd used ? Incl the correct hardware etc.

Think this will also work with the hobbit screen.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
8,495
Machine - For Sale
Las Vegas, NV
From: $ 24.00
$ 50.00
$ 199.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pixels Arcade Games
There are 452 posts in this topic. You are on page 8 of 10.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside