(Topic ID: 48668)

Wizard Blocks...

By mechslave

11 years ago


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  • 242 posts
  • 68 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Ahoernchen
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#22 11 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I know someone in the industry that looked into having this done. They told me $5000 would be a minimum for the drop in playfield and also side art so you could turn your RFM or SWE1 into a WB. It wasn't just the complexity of getting the parts made and the playfields assembled, it was more so who you had to deal with to get things done.

And at 5k there isn't enough profit to make it worthwhile. I have the original BOM and the code, where it was left. No one would want to use the existing code base. It would have to be mostly re-written. I tried to make it happen but in the end it would not have been a fun or profitable venture at the time. Of course people are paying silly prices for machines now. If you could sell playfield kits for 6500 it would at least be a profitable venture.

#23 11 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

You could probably rebuild this game from scratch faster than you could complete the work on an ancient hardware system.

^ absolutely true.

1 year later
#97 9 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

The world is bigger than the midwest...incomes, cost of living, and money spent on collectibles/entertainment vary all over the world. Repeat: WORLD.

That's what it costs for them to have a viable business with full time employees, to take risks and survive through flops Again...games are more than BOM. Talent & Time = money. Also, they're allowed to make a product and profit.
If it's so f*cking easy, please start a pinball company and sell us NIB full featured games for less.

We love Neo but he's a financial idiot when it comes to pins. Plus he's a bit of a hypocrite as he preached no pin is ever worth >3k then proceeded to sell his whole collection off for a stupid amount of money. So, arguing pin economics with him is like arguing geo-politics with a 2 year old. A lot of slobbering and no good info. =)

Plus Neo the wizard blocks code is not nearly done. And no one in their right mind would use the existing source to continue the project.

#105 9 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I was told first hand that the code is much farther along than people know. More so than what was in the playable WB. But it's stuck on the damn harddrive in one of Genes leaky buildings that looks like a set from the movie "Saw".

I have the source code Neo...

#110 9 years ago

Contrary to what Gene may have said there are massive volumes of cds that are backups to everything wms had on their servers before the place went under. Gene had a copy in shoeboxes, literally. Don and I along with a few other pinball vendors were looking into reproducing wb a few years back. The price was too high to make any profit, at the time and it wouldn't have been smart to reuse the old software given the advances in technology over the last 14 years.

#115 9 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Did you talk with the software programmer? From what I was told, there is a lot of modes and stuff that are sitting there ready to be integrated into the main program. It's in pieces, but chunks of it are done. Maybe those backups don't have everything?

Is it possible, sure. Likely? Who knows. But until anyone sees it I wouldn't believe it.

#146 9 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

I think that people that estimate the 'price' for something a) don't include any overhead (NRE, accting, etc), b) don't include margin for resale (if there is any), c) the time value of their time, d) the real costs of everypart, etc at qtys < 200 are SO MUCH HIGHER than for qty 1000 so multiply your BOM costs by upwards of 2x, e) the cost of assembly, subassembly, f) the costs for UL / FCC / certification (all games should be that are sold), g) all the other costs that you don't even know but are usually much higher than you expected, h) license costs (if any), i) subcontractor costs (artists, programmers, etc) and j) some profit at the end for those involved. What happens when you cobble together people on a complex project like this is that it usually falls apart over time ...

Back before Rick bought the rights from Wayne, Don and I had a green light from WMS, Wayne and Gene to create wizard blocks. We also had the original BOM and supplier list. I ran numbers on the whole thing and with everyone involved there was little to no profit and a high probability for cost overruns. I killed the project because I didn't feel like funding a losing deal. Maybe with the crazy prices people are paying for pins now someone could pickup the project and make money. I doubt people would want to pay based on my estimates but who knows. No one would love to see a finished wizard blocks more than me but it's just not cost justified.

#180 9 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

No, I wasn't referring so much to R&D but simply the overall cost/overhead/delivery/storage factor of the project.
A company would not have to cost, run and deliver 1000 cabinets, 1000 displays, 1000 coin doors, 1000 sets of transformer blocks, etc etc....for a kit game as they would a fully assembled machine. That's all I meant. Leaving out all that HAS to lessen the headaches of a project like this, no?

I would say building the cabinet is the easiest part.

Quoted from mechslave:

Plus the playfields and playfield parts are designed and spec'd. We know 1000 playfields is actually a relatively easy thing to get done, these days. 1000 ramp sets, plastic sets, hardware sets, etc....that can all be made relatively easily.

No offense but the fact the you say all of this is easy shows you really have no idea what goes into making a pinball machine. It's anything but easy.

Quoted from mechslave:

So it's mainly the software, which is not only incomplete but the consensus is needs a total redo using the existing software as a template, which is the great unknown. Programming, art and animation seem to be the big three hiccups moving forward, it would seem.

This I agree with. Although again, you are really underestimating the scope of everything else.

#181 9 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I'd leave my job for a one time payoff of 6 figures.

Good pinball programmers should easily make six figures. On the low side but six figures.

#185 9 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

maybe so, but it's all I would need to not have to work again.

you could live off of 100k for the rest of your life?

#213 9 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Yup. I'm good with my money and set myself up good, so when my house it paid off, I don't have to work anymore.

I forgot Neo has no concept of real economics

2 weeks later
#232 9 years ago

The released version of Nucore does not run Wizard Blocks. There's very little point in enabling it to do so. The software is incredibly shallow and currently there are only 2 or 3 playfields (one working and two close?) that could even use it. If Rick, or someone else, decides to actually produce WB they would want to start the software from scratch and not continue the existing (very old and outdated) project. Some are chasing this like its a holy grail but honestly it's really not. When you play the working prototype it gets really boring very quickly. Killer playfield though =)

#241 9 years ago
Quoted from Ahoernchen:

If I know what I have to change or enable on the nucore computer than I can go into the next step. But it only makes sense if I am able to run the WB-rom-software.
So I need Chuck's help to know what I have to enable or change.

There is nothing you can enable or change to make it run in Nucore.

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