^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^

^^^^ and this ^^^^^

^^^^^^^ and this for that and this for the thing before that^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have the source code Neo...

How? Gene doesn't even know where those drives are. There is more advanced version of the software on those harddrives than what people have and was released to that proto game.

Where did you get this?

Are you sure?

Apparently somewhere there is a wizard blocking access to the advanced software.

Contrary to what Gene may have said there are massive volumes of cds that are backups to everything wms had on their servers before the place went under. Gene had a copy in shoeboxes, literally. Don and I along with a few other pinball vendors were looking into reproducing wb a few years back. The price was too high to make any profit, at the time and it wouldn't have been smart to reuse the old software given the advances in technology over the last 14 years.

Gene is apparently locked out of his own warehouses due to an ongoing lawsuit, so expect that with no heat, no electricity and no care - everything is probably ruined.

Did you talk with the software programmer? From what I was told, there is a lot of modes and stuff that are sitting there ready to be integrated into the main program. It's in pieces, but chunks of it are done. Maybe those backups don't have everything?

That is incredible to hear. So you have also the developing tools of p2k?

How did you be able to test the software? Was it possible to flash a prismcard with that software?

Do you know something more about it?

It's been like that for the past 10 years. Add leaky roofs to that as well, high humidity and conditions that would make buffalo bills capture hole look like a palace, compared to Genes storage facilities.

Is it possible, sure. Likely? Who knows. But until anyone sees it I wouldn't believe it.

I doubt anyone will. Unless one of us can buy that pallet of computer towers. I'd do it. Lots of valuable stuff on those towers. Main thing would be the programming software for the ROMs. Very useful to get ahold of.

I think part of Chucks point is that you'd need new computers in them anyway - so you're probably better off just re-writing it, rather than build it with the original code for the outdated hardware.

He is locked out and has no access to it right now.

Right now it sounds like a judge is the only one who can decide.

Search Pinside. Chapter 7 means a bankruptcy court decides.

LTG : )™

Wizard Blocks isn't going to be remade. It's just not. And if for some crazy reason it happened (but it won't) Gene wouldn't have a thing to do with it, that bridge was crossed and tossed a long time ago. It's a piece of pinball history, and that's how it's going to stay. Better to just accept that and let it go.

Ahoernchen, if you really want to play the whitewood then come to Southern California next time Pinsane does an open party, I'm sure he'd welcome anyone like he's done in the past.

It's weird that whatever title is being worked on when a company closes it's doors suddenly becomes the brass ring. Given it's not done and very few of us have played one, I'm not sure I understand the emotional investiture. It's an unfinished game on a dead platform that is legally encumbered to such an extent it's unclear who owns it. It sounds like THE tar baby of the pinball world.

It would be cheaper/faster to build a knock-off called "Sorceror Cubes" than it would be to try and complete what exists. The reality is there's nothing sacred about the existing rule set other than that's what they had when the doors closed.

_{Post edited by swf127}

Catchy!

This is SO true. In the Neo Geo scene, prototypes end up in the hands of selfish pricks who won't even acknowledge publicly that they own them, let alone invite other people to try the games.

For a game as important as Wizard Blocks to be in the hands of someone who appreciates it for what it is and lets others enjoy it is a massive win for the pinball community.

So, you have no interest in playing Bally/Williams' last pinball game?

As a Pin2k owner/fan, it is a big deal to me. According to most accounts(interviews with Williams employees) it was *the* game that got the pin2k format down to the perfect mix of pinball and video. That's hardly surprising though, as it was designed by the co-creator of the format and he had time to really look at what didn't work on the other two. That, and he's Pat-Freaking-Lawlor(pinball god). It's a little sad, but now I've built this game up in my head so much that if it were it ever be made, it wouldn't live up to the legend I'm sure lol.

Guys ... just to set the record here. We have all the code for Wizard Blocks. We are the only company allowed via our license to have it and to do anything with it (or those who we delegate). That being said, all of the points are true a) it's not very done and needs alot more work, b) it's probably better to re-write in a 'new' programming environment running on a new computer, c) you have to go source the parts, and a bunch of other stuff to get it done ... and then it's really a crapshoot as to whether you can get a hundred or two hundred people to fork over the $ to make it available (how many thousands of $ will it be? ... nobody works for free - programmers, artist, designer, BOM, accounting, etc) ... maybe we should start up a game designer simulation game to help everyone understand why alot of game ideas get started but very few get finished ...

rick

I absolutely agree with this. It's a piece of pinball history that deserves to be preserved and if the owner is sharing it with the community, that's icing on the cake.

Hey Rick,

I would genuinely like to know how many people would you need to voice interest in this, and and what dollar amount, for you to give producing Wizard Blocks serious consideration?

Thanks,

Collin

I don't need to have anyone interested in it, other than someone who puts together a credible business proposal and then covers all of the MANY bases that need to be covered in it, and it makes sense ... I expect that the people that have the technical, the business, and the mechanical accumen are few and far between ... but we're all ears if something credible pops up (hint ... pinside proposals are 'not' generally credible ... lol).

Ask Neo...it's so cheap and easy according to him!

there was one guy who was going to make one complete but suddenly it was stopped for some reasons.

i followed everything he did, so sad that he had to stop... and i'm wondering why.

http://www.specialpinball.de/html/wizard_blocks.html

maybe he's one of those without a business plan?

In the Neo Geo community, you'd have to be an idiot to announce ownership of any rare / valuable cart...they'll find you and smash your cartridge in order to increase the value of theirs. Never go to France then they'll get you for sure.

Oddly enough probably not but let me explain why. Creating anything of any real value is usually an iterative process. Geniuses might be able to lay out something with no changes, but the rest of us are constantly making adjustments as we go to reach the intended goal. I've written quite a bit in my career (software & otherwise) and if I were forced to abandon an effort mid-stream, I'd have mixed feelings about people holding it up as my coda. If you want to play it out of historical interest or to understand how a pin evolves during development, then I totally get that. I just think hiring a pack of bozos to pick up where a guy like Lawlor et al. left off and try and call it a Lawlor pin is doing him and pinball a disservice.

I think pin2k was an interesting technical achievement that had a great deal of potential. I'm not denigrating anyone's work. All I'm saying is that nostalgia is a powerful force. It's one of the big reasons we're all here, right? We're grown up a bit, are well-off enough to buy some toys and we're buying all the crap we liked in our late teens and twenties. If you're going to move things forward, we can borrow ideas and concepts from a platform like pin2k, but I wouldn't limit ourselves to what already exists. I'm far more excited about what Heck & spooky are doing precisely because they're opening up the platform. They're making it accessible in a way that's never been done before. If I have to choose where to spend my money, it's a remarkably easy decision.

It'd be great to see wizard blocks materialize some day. There are only a few fools I can think of that would even consider attempting it though, and even then it'd be a long shot.
As peeps have already said, there's a lot of different talents needed to make a game, none of which are free. Also, in the case of pin 2k, there's a lot of additional full colour screen animations needed for the platform. Sure there isn't cabinet cost or anything like that for a kit, but instead you've gotta pay a ton more $$$ to an animator for the in-game art. Making a typical dot animation is fairly easy, making a full colour intractable animation is a whole different beast.

Bang on. Ideas are only 1%. It's all about the process.

I'm sure we can do something about that, I'll ask Steve if he would mind next time I'm over there. If nothing else I can shoot a little HD from my iPhone, will be better than what's out there now.

I think that people that estimate the 'price' for something a) don't include any overhead (NRE, accting, etc), b) don't include margin for resale (if there is any), c) the time value of their time, d) the real costs of everypart, etc at qtys < 200 are SO MUCH HIGHER than for qty 1000 so multiply your BOM costs by upwards of 2x, e) the cost of assembly, subassembly, f) the costs for UL / FCC / certification (all games should be that are sold), g) all the other costs that you don't even know but are usually much higher than you expected, h) license costs (if any), i) subcontractor costs (artists, programmers, etc) and j) some profit at the end for those involved. What happens when you cobble together people on a complex project like this is that it usually falls apart over time ...

Back before Rick bought the rights from Wayne, Don and I had a green light from WMS, Wayne and Gene to create wizard blocks. We also had the original BOM and supplier list. I ran numbers on the whole thing and with everyone involved there was little to no profit and a high probability for cost overruns. I killed the project because I didn't feel like funding a losing deal. Maybe with the crazy prices people are paying for pins now someone could pickup the project and make money. I doubt people would want to pay based on my estimates but who knows. No one would love to see a finished wizard blocks more than me but it's just not cost justified.

Turns out I do have some (tiny) pictures of these after all, so somebody must have sent them to me last time I asked - thanks.

Unknown.jpegimages.jpegimages-2.jpegimages-1.jpeg

I was sitting 6 feet from that machine the other night, it wouldn't have been a big deal to shoot a short video on my phone for you if I'd known it was wanted so badly. So long as Steve doesn't mind, and I doubt he would, I'll try and remember next time I see it.

That would be great. Please make from both machines videos