(Topic ID: 73161)

Wish List of Bugs In WMS/BLY WPC/WPC95 Code to Fix?


By PPS

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 267 posts
  • 124 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by rosh
  • Topic is favorited by 26 Pinsiders

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There are 267 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 6.
#51 6 years ago

with FT I wish the knocker would go off when the drummer hits the crash symbol. That and the LED ROM patch is are the only things I would like for my FT.

#52 6 years ago

+1 for Getaway's L2 rom without the bugs.

#53 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

So what are the FT problems with code?
I ahve not noticed any and think it is one of the best coded games. I guess only comlaint could be that the points are all from super jackpot??? However the risk/reward if dialed in perfectly from my perspective.

There is an issue with the font on the Extra Ball text if I remember correctly. Please correct me if I am wrong. Love this game though!

--Scott

#54 6 years ago

Yes doesn't the extra ball text go off the screen or something?

#55 6 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Yes doesn't the extra ball text go off the screen or something?

It is smashed on both sides.
--Scott

#56 6 years ago
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:

There is an issue with the font on the Extra Ball text if I remember correctly. Please correct me if I am wrong. Love this game though!
--Scott

Yes, there is a cosmetic font issue in the game, but it's been so long I don't remember if it's the extra ball text, game over text or high score text. I'll have to check my notes again.

#57 6 years ago

I think is says "extra balle" or something like that?

For some reason I thought it was fixed in the most recent ROM? (non-ghosting upgrade)

#58 6 years ago

For TOTAN (and I don't have mine anymore so someone correct me if I am wrong) when you have the ruby lit and hit the bazaar and get the choice between either two jewels or 3 tiger loops, as I recall, if you choose the tiger loops you are only charged one wish.

If TOTAN was to be de-bugged I would vote for tiger loops to cost two wishes.

#59 6 years ago
Quoted from swedishc:

I second that! Those pops are annoying.

Quoted from Crash:

Creature: Sound pop at end of ball,

+2

#60 6 years ago

What about no ghosting and hit both flippers to see the scores during attract mode for every dmd pin?

#61 6 years ago

Very good, no ghost code implemented in every game rom, super easy, and maybe even pay the guy that was threatened legally in the first place for providing this to the community for free.

Just my thought on it, I know you had nothing to do with this PPS.

#62 6 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

maybe even pay the guy that was threatened legally in the first place for providing this to the community for free.

He didn't write the fix. Williams fixed the issue themselves. The patch simply looked at what had been done and made the same changes to existing ROMs without the fix. I agree, it would be great to get approved versions of no-ghosting ROMs.

#63 6 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

What about no ghosting and hit both flippers to see the scores during attract mode for every dmd pin?

That is a GREAT IDEA!

I hate that so many games you ahev to wait for them to cycle to see scores after a game is over.

#64 6 years ago

CFTBL: When setting the game to factory settings and then installing European pricing, it automatically goes to hard difficulty setting. As a result, almost all CTFBL on location here in Europe are / were in hard difficulty. And that cost me quite a lot of coins (and frustration).

#65 6 years ago
Quoted from diesel64:

CFTBL: When setting the game to factory settings and then installing European pricing, it automatically goes to hard difficulty setting. As a result, almost all CTFBL on location here in Europe are / were in hard difficulty. And that cost me quite a lot of coins (and frustration).

I'm sorry for your frustration, but that's a hilarious bug.

#66 6 years ago

I agree with a previous poster, a bug tracker of sorts could be used to track and rank bugs. Hopefully Bowen chimes in, I'd imagine he is one of the most knowledgeable people out there when it comes to known bugs/issues with code.

#67 6 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

I'm sorry for your frustration, but that's a hilarious bug.

You can imagine... the amount of times I got F-L-M, but no I (due to the snackbar not granting any targets for free on hard mode) ... Just... *sigh*

Anyway, pretty hilarious bug indeed.

#68 6 years ago
Quoted from herg:

He didn't write the fix. Williams fixed the issue themselves. The patch simply looked at what had been done and made the same changes to existing ROMs without the fix. I agree, it would be great to get approved versions of no-ghosting ROMs.

You mean the code from 95's where there is no ghosting was the root? I didn't know that.... I thought that guy did it on his own, I recall the RGP thread a few years ago and how he discovered it.

#69 6 years ago

When I was at SPF last year Lyman told me a story about a CFTBL that he owned and he had actually fixed all of the bugs and made a revised ROM chip set.

Then he sold it... along with the revised ROMs. He doesn't know where those ROMs are now

#70 6 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

You mean the code from 95's where there is no ghosting was the root?

Yeah. The original page is no longer accessible, but here's an archive (thanks, Ed) where he talks about it.
http://www.edcheung.com/album/album07/Pinball/WPC_Ghost_Busting.pdf

The relevant portion:

In the 1995 timeframe, the Williams software designers modified the lamp matrix device driver code to work around the WPC ASIC issue and to modify the timing with how matrix is controlled. For 'most' cases this appears to have eliminated the ghosting issue. I say most because I have read a number of posts where people say they still have LED ghosting issues even when they are running ROM's with the updated driver code. I have also read posts stating that the ghosting issue is more prevalent when Rotten Dog power/driver boards are used.
I have written a program which will do the following:
Take a WPC Game ROM as input and analyze it to determine if it contains the old or updated lamp matrix
driver code.
If the ROM has the old code, the program will update/patch the driver with the new code.
The program prompts the user to enter a new game version.
The ROM game version is updated and the checksum is re-calculated.
How do you know if your game rom has the old or updated driver code?
Any WPC pin produced from 1996 onward will have the updated driver code.
Williams designers also updated the driver code for a number of popular games produced before 1996. Some examples of earlier games with updated ROMs are:
AFM rev 1.13
WH2O rev LH-6
TZ rev 9.4H
If you are unsure if a specific Game ROM has the old or updated driver then just run the program on the ROM and it will tell you which version of the driver is present.

Technically, he DID modify the actual opcodes used to use less space, allowing it to fit, but it was still copying what Williams did.

#71 6 years ago

Ahh interesting, thanks for enlightening me, I just recall it was great news!

But yes, I have to assume that this would be a given in any new rom at this point.

#72 6 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Addams Family: Randomize mansion modes more so mamshkua isn't always lit at the start of a game.

Well, the idea is that you walk in the front door, turn right, and start going through the mansion. You could always shoot for the pop bumpers first, that'll randomize it for you for sure!

I'm pretty sure my suggestions wouldn't have much merit since I know I don't have the latest ROM's in my games, so I won't share all of my thoughts. But, this is a golden opportunity we need to take full advantage of.

It would be nice to be able to get a new/unhacked version of TZ's 9.4H ROM that wasn't Free Only.

For TAF, there are times when locking a ball for one of the two-ball multiballs, the Dirty Pool callout happens after Thing has already pulled the ball in and the DMD shows "Lock Ball in Vault", instead of displaying the proper jackpot text. (Could have been fixed in a later version ROM already, I don't know.)

Perhaps for TAF, a ROM set that allowed you to "toggle" the gold ROM set features. That is, an option on the setup menu to turn on or off all the added gold ROM features.

That's all I can think if right now. I'll go home and play some more and get back to you.

#73 6 years ago

Road Show could benefit by toggling the starting point using the flipper for selection.
Starting at the same place needs mixed up a little.

#74 6 years ago

NF - On the start of the ball, if you choose "advance raceway" as a free start award, sometimes you don't get the award.

#75 6 years ago
Quoted from Skrippy:

When I was at SPF last year Lyman told me a story about a CFTBL that he owned and he had actually fixed all of the bugs and made a revised ROM chip set.
Then he sold it... along with the revised ROMs. He doesn't know where those ROMs are now

He did the same thing with Tommy. I know who owns the pin; I should get those ROMs dumped some day.

#76 6 years ago

I just want to throw it out there....
This thread is probably one of the most important ones in pinball. These are the people that have the original source code, the means, and most importantly the Rights to make better the most significant pinball machines ever produced. And they want our input. Good times indeed

1 week later
#77 6 years ago

Using a bug tracker might be a good move for organizing this. There are two web based bug trackers that might work well:

Mantis: http://www.mantisbt.org/

UserVoice: https://www.uservoice.com/

UserVoice is nice because people can vote on what issues are most important to you. This might help prioritize which bugs to fix first.

I use Bugzilla at the game development studio I work at, and it sucks but is free.

12
#78 6 years ago

I've got the list as I interpret it in a google docs that we can start to look and and see what can be done. We have the compile environment setup and have recompiled CC with some enhancements. We will start getting compile environments for several games starting in January, and then start to figure out which things we can get started on ... rick

#79 6 years ago

Rick -- is the plan for these fixes/enhancements to run on the original Williams/Bally pins, or only on remakes?

#80 6 years ago

Bride of Pinbot

Fix small wheel for lite extra ball and extra ball

Fix scoring to allow multiple billionaires.

Really excited to see what you guys are able to do.

This is exciting news,Thanks in advance,Scott

11
#81 6 years ago

Original wms/bly games on original hardware - mainly fixes, some enhancements, and few extensions, and possibly 1-2 large projects ... we will see how it goes.

#82 6 years ago

Large projects? Would it be possible to swap in larger CPU/DMD/sound ROMs for those as needed?

#83 6 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

A few off the top of my head:
Addams Family: A timed ball save would be great. Set the option to kick out locked balls after a game to yes by default. Randomize mansion modes more so mamshkua isn't always lit at the start of a game.

Yes I agree these would be good TAF changes.

#84 6 years ago

PPS, are you looking for programmers? I would love to get involved!

#85 6 years ago

CC with enhancements <perk> I'm in!
image-466.jpg

#86 6 years ago

If Cactus Canyon is really on the list I wonder how it would stack up against Cactus Canyon Continued? Maybe this is sort of like a version of CCC that will run on original hardware.

#87 6 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

CC with enhancements <perk> I'm in!

image-466.jpg 29 KB

me too .

#88 6 years ago

TOTAN: not a bug, but on regular Multiball, it would be nice to have a timed ball save/restart.

Quite frustrating to lose a ball (or two LOL) SDTM right after starting Multiball and not be bailed out.

TOTAN Multiball routinely torments me, mocks me.

End my pain.

#89 6 years ago

CFTBL: Should add *something* to the code if you spell M-I-L-F...a bonus mode, quote, or DMD animation.

#90 6 years ago

Off the top of my head, bugs that make games bad for tournaments:
T2 - Super Jackpot doesn't collect occasionally, though the cause has not been determined AFAIK. Additionally, sometimes the "X targets for multiball" counter will roll *under*, reading "255 targets for multiball", basically rendering the rest of the game useless.
TOTAN - Genie Battle + Harem Multiball stack. This should not be possible as it is massively gamebreaking.
NGG - Various bugs, including the phantom no-kickback, Q Jackpot that doesn't award the correct amount of points, Free Lock breaking the game in various ways during multiplayer games, Jackpots not always scoring, and probably at least one other thing that I can't think of.

Bugs that are annoying but not gamebreaking:
MB: The Lyman's Lament flipper code is not supposed to award the player the extra bonus multipliers it does when earned normally in the game, but in a 2 or more player game, it will award all players except for the first player the extra bonus multipliers even when activated through the flipper code.
CFTBL: Maxing out your playfield multiplier during a multiball can make the player unable to obtain any multipliers during future multiballs. This is not intended behavior.

Things that would be really nice for competitive play:
CFTBL: In tournament mode, finding the girl during multiball should always take the same amount of shots. It sucks to have one player find the girl on their first shot (through no skill of their own), then have the next player hit two shots and drain without finding the girl.
MM: Castles should not increase in value the way they do currently. Multiball jackpots are basically inconsequential when compared to the points that you can more or less safely get from just bashing away at the castle endlessly.

#92 6 years ago

It would be sweet if the older wpc's rotated through the scores in attract mode with the flipper buttons like it does in the shadow. (maybe not possible with pre fliptronics)

#93 6 years ago
Quoted from Capper96:

- WH20 -
1) I am not sure if this is a bug, but sometimes the river class does not reset after I drain on ROM LH6.

Did you get the "hold bonus" from the Disaster Drop ramp? If so, that is why.

#94 6 years ago

WH2O: Other than setting the machine to Tournament mode, there is no way to set the Lost Mine to 3 shots to start Gold Rush. It always defaults to already having the flashlight (shot #1 in tournament play).

#95 6 years ago
Quoted from KevinDDR:

TOTAN - Genie Battle + Harem Multiball stack. This should not be possible as it is massively gamebreaking.

I would say "massively gamebreaking" is a bit of an overstatement. I only got it once in a year and half of ownership and I could make it to the genie battle on a fairly consistent basis. It would make for a good adjustment to be able to turn on/off the ability to start harem multiball during the final battle.

#96 6 years ago

The Getaway to fix bugs and incorporate Run the Red Light correctly.

Judge Dredd, fix incorporation of dead world mod.

Jurassic Park just needs a whole revamping.

#97 6 years ago

I would like to see a battery change reminder tied in with the clock during power up. Could be set as a yearly reminder.Also general illumination that can go lower than 4 during attract mode. Since some of these games are still on location and mm is being remade possibly some tournament software too.

I feel roadshow is mundane and repetitive. Would like to see more random modes that don't always start with the annoying cab guy.

#98 6 years ago

The next problem with trying to get some of this to happen is how to fund the projects ... so in the spirit of 'throwing' stuff out there, it would be interesting to get the view of pinside ... doing any of this work costs money. While we are not doing this necessarily to 'make money', we also cannot do too much of it to lose money ... so we need to figure out how to fund the work, which will be done by one or more contractors who get paid as well as some work by PPS directly. I really don't want to have to spend by life dealing with bootleg copies, and posting on torrents, etc so need to figure out how this will work to really give it a go. So would be interested in everyones constructive (if that is possible here) comments on how to make this at least 'neutral' in terms of the costs and the revenue ... open to all ideas!

thanks,
rick@planetarypinball.com

#99 6 years ago

You might be able to get started by doing a small crowd funding campaign, such as Kickstarter or Indiegogo.

#100 6 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

The next problem with trying to get some of this to happen is how to fund the projects ... so in the spirit of 'throwing' stuff out there, it would be interesting to get the view of pinside ... doing any of this work costs money. While we are not doing this necessarily to 'make money', we also cannot do too much of it to lose money ... so we need to figure out how to fund the work, which will be done by one or more contractors who get paid as well as some work by PPS directly. I really don't want to have to spend by life dealing with bootleg copies, and posting on torrents, etc so need to figure out how this will work to really give it a go. So would be interested in everyones constructive (if that is possible here) comments on how to make this at least 'neutral' in terms of the costs and the revenue ... open to all ideas!
thanks,
rick@planetarypinball.com

A simple start would be a "Round it Up" to round purchases made thru your web site to the next highest dollar amount / even number. It's an easy start and might generate some seed money depending on traffic.

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