KS
Can't say it is living up to all of the hype. What is so "bar setting" about this?
(Topic ID: 240285)
Linked Games
Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory (CE)
Jersey Jack, 2019-
Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory (LE)
Jersey Jack, 2019
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Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory (Standard)
Jersey Jack, 2019
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Quoted from DeadFlip:A lot of opinions on the reveal tonight.
Im gonna try to head out to MGC tomorrow to flip it!
The front page Twitch gods have been kind this evening spiking at almost 12k+ viewers for the reveal!
All in, this should be hundreds of thousands of eyeballs on the game.
Being able to have this resource (front page) is huge for our hobby!
Well done kevinbuffalo skipnatty and Buffalo Crew!
Hundreds of thousands of eyeballs may not be a good thing........
Quoted from mystman12:I'm honestly surprised at how much negativity I'm seeing here. Starting to see why some people don't like Pinside, haha. There may not be anything groundbreaking here, but it looks like an absolute blast to shoot and that's what matters most to me. Rules seem great too. I hope I can get a chance to try it soon.
As for sound, I'm not sure how I feel... I was initially glad to hear the upbeat music (VS. the kind of music you find in The Hobbit, which is fantastic, but it doesn't really work well as pinball music), but as I listened more I started to feel like it might be *too* noisy. I've been thinking a lot lately at how lackluster sound design has been in modern pinball compared to the great sound packages created by guys like Chris Granner, Brian Schmidt, and Dan Forden (In my humble opinion anyways. Maybe I'm in the minority, but there haven't been any games in the past few decades with sound and music that has grabbed my attention like older games did), so when I heard they had some new talent doing the sound here I was excited to see what he would bring to the table. I'll definitely have to try this game with headphones whenever I find one to get a better idea of the sound package. Ultimately though I'll take too exciting over too quiet any day.
The bad comes with the good. Lots of hype is going to equal lots of let down. I think so many of us wanted JJP to knock this one out of the park...we made this much bigger in our own heads. I love JJP games and own 2, but with this one I am just not impressed, as much as I would like to be. I don't know why, but it keeps reminding me of that late night commercial where they are selling the unicorn poop.....must just be the colors. I can take the artwork, but the sounds are just annoying, and half the video clips make no sense as they are integrated. Hopefully they can add some real polish, and I will admit, it may be a lot better in person.
Quoted from delt31:If I were to remove the expectation of this game really innovating and having something we've never seen before (thanks kaneda) - I would be very happy. Now that I've seen it that expectation not being met definitely stung a little which is why I'm not overly impressed.
I wonder how many folks had a similar reaction.
I will say though that I'm almost certain about buying a standard bc it looks like a better themed DI with a sprinkle of WoZ magic.
Not sure how they go from that CE POTC topper to the CE Wonka topper unless it's just a placeholder. Chocolate River topper opportunity completely missed.
Probably the biggest let-down for me as well, but it wasn't just Kaneda hyping this thing as "raising the bar" and how others would need to step up their game....so I don't blame him singly. I was really looking forward to some special innovation that never happened. To be honest, I am sure the thrill of being one of the first to see and to play the machine most likely built the experience up in everyone's minds, just like the suspense and countdown to reveal did for folks here on the forum. Even if someone thinks this is the best game ever....we should never take their word and order an 8K pin sight unseen. I love JJP games....I like the Wonka theme....but from what I have seen so far, this is just not for me. maybe it will be in a few months when the code is better, and after I get some plays on one....who knows. Not knocking the pin, just saying we all have different tastes, and maybe my disappointment over the reveal is influencing my opinion....I guess time will tell. I badly want JJP to have another hit like WOZ, so I hope there are still a ton of folks digging the pin.
Quoted from stpcore:Reading through some of the feedback here I just wanted to add my perspective. My podcast (Special When Lit Pinball Podcast) was invited in to play Wonka before we recorded a panel interview with the design team. I'm sure many of you consider that the opinion that I shared about my experience was "overhype" of the game. In all honesty I may have sounded even more excited about Wonka than Kaneda if you compare the two podcasts and I completely own up to that.
I wanted to apologize for those that associate my extreme excitement for this game as overhype. There is most likely nothing that I can tell you that will change your opinion on that and I completely respect your opinion.
I did want to mention that I don't regret sharing my excitement/opinion of the game. I played this game in a controlled environment and had enough time on the pin that I felt comfortable offering my "first impressions" of the game. I had very personal conversations with the creative team behind the release which gave me a great understanding as to what the game is about. I made the disclaimer on my show that the opinion that I share can only be considered a first impression and I could not comment on the longevity of that opinion on the game until I had owned the game for a while.
I've had early pinball access to other releases before they have gone public so Wonka was not a situation where I felt awestruck by seeing something early which influenced or exaggerated my personal opinion. Plain and simple I felt that I was taking part in a pinball experience (gameplay) like nothing else I had ever been exposed to. That's what I shared on my podcast. I don't claim to be an expert reviewer of machines or demand that someone go out and buy a machine based on my experience. I simply share my opinions and I understand that those opinions may not line up with others. That's completely understandable and I like that there are different things that appeal to others.
I would only ask that you put some time on this game when you can to help formulate a solid opinion. I believe that the responsibility should be with the potential buyer to play the game before passing final judgement and not base your final decision on something that you read online, listened to on a podcast, or saw during a pinball stream. If the opinion that I shared angered some of you then I really don't know what to say except that I am sorry that I have upset you as that was not my intention. I am still very excited for the release and I think that some of you may become more excited once you have the chance to get on the game.
I'll be addressing all this when we record our podcast tonight but I felt I'd like to share my thoughts here as well in the event you don't know the background behind my opinions.
-Ken
Ken;
Anyone that was "angry" over a podcast really needs more things in life to worry about. You guys all called it like you saw it. Everyone has different tastes, everyone has different experiences, it is what makes us all unique. I really do think this game will get better over time, and many love it just the way it is. we are all grown adults and we all need to be responsible for our own decisions....right or wrong.
Now with that said, I had to chuckle about JJP inviting all of the podcasters in for a sneak peek....does anyone not see the irony in how this happened in comparison to the Wonka story? lol They all found the golden mic and got let into the secret world. You got to play the games, eat some pizza, and have a little fun. Maybe telling JJP the game needed work and offering suggestions was the correct answer to the "test" and you would have been invited to run JJP! lol (Just a bit of Wonka Humor)
Quoted from pinball_keefer:Oh man how many games have I worked on that we shouldn't have made?
AP: Can't show 3 or 4 of the best animations in the game. Oh well, better not do it.
TSPP: Can only have 3 voice actors. Sorry, Marge, Lisa, Burns, many others. Oh well, better not do it.
LOTR: Can't get movie shots from ROTK. Can't get Ian McKellen. Oh well, better not do it.
Elvis: "Elvis wouldn't have said that." Oh well, better not do it.
WOZ: Everyone's dead and can't find anyone that sounds like them. Oh well, better not do it.
Hobbit: No one associated with the movie will even look at your email for < $100K. Oh well, better not do it.
JJPOTC: No assets with people in them. Oh well, better not do it.
Relax dude...it will get better. part of being out in the public eye is taking some of the criticism. Everyone making pinball knows full well going into development they are not going to make everyone happy 100% of the time. Use that passion to make the game irresistible to even the worst critics..........
Quoted from pinball_keefer:Dude... I've been doing this for 20 years, sometimes you just have to call out the absurdity.
LOL...I completely understand, and I know you have been doing it for 20 years......but you can't tell me in all of those years you haven't come to expect this on just about any high profile reveal. You can't make everyone happy, and you know that....absurdity? absolutely, but that is what this forum is about sometimes. My point was not to take anything you read here to heart...don't let it dull your passion and what drives you. There isn't a soul here attacking you personally....just a bunch of people with too much time and money trying to convince the world our opinion counts for something, when in realty it does not.
Quoted from stpcore:Jersey jack Pinball did not invite me in to "review" the game. I was invited in to record a panel discussion with the creative team for our podcast. I tried to explain that a few posts ago. I am absolutely a pinball enthusiast. I look for concepts whenever possible versus harping on failures. I shared my thoughts honestly without bias from anyone at JJP. I take the time out of my life to host a weekly pinball podcast because I love pinball. I have never tried to suggest I am a professional reviewer or journalist.
For the record, I do know Ken and Bill well enough to say they would never shill for anyone, especially for a sneak peek and pizza. As I said, they called it like they saw it, and we are all adult enough to make up our own minds. Did JJP invite them as a form of promotion....probably so, but I don't think the intent was to use anyone to over-hype the game. I really do think they were listening to the criticism regarding the way they reveal these games, and they were trying to do something new to embrace the pinball community. Based on the number of viewers to the reveal stream, I would think the idea worked on one level, but I don't know how to tweak it so folks don't have this huge build-up in their own minds and then get let down when willy Wonka himself doesn't jump out of the game and hand you an ever lasting gobstopper.
Quoted from PismoArcade:This is like the third podcast in a row where he defines rubes as anyone who drives a Civic as opposed to a Demon. We get it Chris....you have money.
Poor Aurich took some hits during that 18 minute meltdown. Chris doing his "dropping the mic" bit at the end was especially cringeworthy.
Yea, I don't usually listen to his stuff, so I don't know all of the history, but I will admit I listened to his one to hear what you were referencing.
So basically he is insecure idiot...always has been, always will be. He can't take the criticism how he over-hyped the reveal, so his only defense is to lash out and call anyone that doesn't agree with him a "bedwetter'. What a grade school playground comment to make, but then again I guess no one ever accused him of being an overly mature individual. He basically says you can't have an opinion on a game unless you flip it, so if that is the case, his podcasts should be really short from now on, assuming he doesn't hold to a double standard.
People can have opinions on anything, and they can post those opinions on an open forum. They don't have to own the game, they don't have to flip the game, and they can even have opinions on opinions if they want to. Aurich had an opinion on artwork because that is what he does. I respect that opinion, and to lash out because he criticized the artwork of a game, which 'Special K' himself has done on numerous occasions, is a bit hypocritical. Here is an opinion....those TWIPPY awards you are so proud of.....my opinion is you didn't win those for your great podcasting. My opinion is you won those because people like to look at train wrecks. They wanted to see how much of an ass you were going to make of yourself after winning, and they were not disappointed. It was no accident they saved that presentation for next to last...it was done that way on purpose. Can you not see that?
Face it...you got your ego stroked by JJ when you got invited to play a game a week ahead of the reveal, like it was some great honor. You were used.....you got caught up in the hype, and because you want to be invited to do this again, you posted how this was going to be the game to change pinball as we know it. It is a nice game, and I am sure it shoots well, but nothing there is a new innovation. You lied, and because people called you on it, your only solution is to lash out. Grow up...it's just pinball.
Quoted from Lermods:I listened to his podcast, I didn’t take it this way. He was pissed off/frustrated about all the nit picking, particularly by those who haven’t seen the game in person or played it. I don’t always agree with him, but I do on this. Pages and pages of going back and forth on minute details of a game most people have not seen or played. He spent time with the game in a quiet environment and loved it. The special when lit guys did too and also loved it.
I’ll reserve my own judgment on the game until I play it, but from what I’ve seen, it looks like a cool game. Does it have everything I would want, no, but I am willing to bet JJP will do everything in their power to make a great game. I have a deposit down on an LE.
Frustration, maybe...but who made him the 'nit picking police'? He picks and picks on other themes, and picks and picks at Pinside and other folks based only on observation, but it is not OK for anyone else to do? He is entitled to his opinion just like everyone else, but he doesn't own part of JJP, so why is the picking his concern? Why is he all of a sudden the person that is going to put a stop to something that has been going on for a long time, and something he himself is a master at?. The reason as I said is very simple...he got caught in a white lie, and he has to deflect the blame somehow. It is kindergarten 101....the quickest way to get the focus off yourself is to create controversy about someone else.
You cannot listen to that podcast and come away saying there was any redeeming value of any sort. Just some guy looking for attention.
Quoted from Crile1:Wow! What a mess this thread is. Special When Lit guys, Zach, and even Kaneda were right, there sure is a lot of nit-picking and silly immature statements being made about a game 90% of you haven't played. Need to check out the Black Knight forum and see if you guys are ripping that one apart. I grew up watching this film and got to see, hear, and play it at MGC. It is beautiful, shoots like butter, sounds great, and represents the film well. Is it the second-coming of pinball? No. It's just a great game with all modern stuff thrown in. Will it change the pinball landscape? Yes. JJP now has a game at a price point to directly compete with Stern Premium, AP, and CGC. So now when a buyer looks at price, they will be comparing directly to JJP, not having to consider paying more for JJP. That point has potential to change things.
I hope it is everything you say....as I have said multiple times, I hope this is a huge hit for JJP, they need it, and although this one isn't for me, I AM looking forward to the next couple on deck. At this point the ball is in JJP's court. They need to get quality games shipped to do as you say and compete with Stern Premium. Their history hasn't been so stellar in that regard, but we are rooting for them this time.
Quoted from PoMC:Can't wait to play Wonka at Allentown! The game looks fantastic to me and the shots look so damn smooth.
Long overdue time on the range tomorrow...hoping to enjoy some smooth shots myself.......lol But with that said, I do agree the layout looks good.
Quoted from phoenixpin:Meanwhile I’m super excited for Wonka and am likely to buy one. My one concern is not the critique of potential slot machine feel, the (current) lack of assets, or supposed over hype, but the music in the game. On the stream I found it grating but am hopeful that it’s different when you play it.
That should improve with coding. I am hoping they also add sound to go with some of the video clips.
Quoted from Bublehead:I find it funny there is this much “drama” in pinball at all. Back in the dark times, in the long long ago, before Pinside, RGP, or any place to gather virtually and talk pinball, the only time you got to talk and discuss pinball like we do on here was at Expo, auctions, once in a while a tournament, of if you caught your operator collecting from the coin box, or you were talking with your distributor.
I guess even pinball ended up with internet “influencers” and cliques and industry “insiders” that for some reason keep people coming back to Pinside for the latest gossip and dirt on. I remember everyone just reading Play Meter and asking each other what machine was killing it on earnings. Now we have to have a Gala Night at the Metropolitan Museam of Fine Art everytime a pinball machine is revealed? What happened to walking into your distributor’s workshop for a box of lamps and some rubber rings and seeing the latest title sitting on the shop floor and a tech under the playfield doing techy things? And let me just nip those thoughts about saying anything about LEDs and Silicone rings...
What happened is money, marketing, and competition........Oh, and rich people with nothing better to do....lol.
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