(Topic ID: 240285)

Willy Wonka reveal details


By screaminr

12 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 1,397 posts
  • 363 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 hours ago by NeilMcRae
  • Topic is favorited by 60 Pinsiders

You

Topic poll

“Who wants what”

  • SE 35 votes
    32%
  • LE 53 votes
    49%
  • CE 21 votes
    19%

(109 votes)

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There are 1397 posts in this topic. You are on page 23 of 28.
#1101 5 days ago
Quoted from Amused_to_Death:

How do you know? They haven't showed the CE to anyone yet.
"But Easter is over." — Mike Teavee

It’s on the flyer. And was also on a few of the machines at MGC. The cabinet work, and the mirrored backglass. The only thing we didn’t see was the glittered playfield artwork.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wwcf-club-wonka-golden-tickets-inside/page/5#post-4941195

#1102 5 days ago

I watched the reveal stream, read the TWIP deep dive, SDTM videos, and heard all the podcasts. I loved all the content that was available right at launch.

I think all in all JJP did a great job revealing this title, and I am still super hyped on this game. I will be getting an LE.

The only thing that drove me crazy in the streams was the music/sound. A minor issue for me though. And I'm sure it will improve. If not, not a deal killer for me.

Looking forward to owning my second JJP/Lawlor title!

#1103 5 days ago
Quoted from Amused_to_Death:

How do you know? They haven't showed the CE to anyone yet.
"But Easter is over." — Mike Teavee

What are you talking about? Has them in the email I got form Joe. Clearly shows the cab artwork for all three models.

#1104 5 days ago
Quoted from Amused_to_Death:

How do you know? They haven't showed the CE to anyone yet.
"But Easter is over." — Mike Teavee

Heck, just look at the sales post at the bottom of this page. Shows all three.

#1105 5 days ago

Has anyone seen the art on the side blades for the CE?

#1106 5 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

No, you got it.

Quoted from delt31:

It's the most disappointing thing for me. What about the ball lock is great though? Bc the ball falls in? It's like a scoop that gets closes temporarily. Maybe I'm missing something?

...just playing devil's advocate, but it's like a scoop that isnt open at first, so that the ball can pass over it and go behind (?) it. I dunno, I find that things that appear and dissapear on the playfield adds extra real estate that can be used for extra shots. Like if it was a regular scoop then that shot is a dead end, but with the closing/opening gobble hole, it allows other thigns to happen in that shot path. Just my two cents...

#1107 5 days ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

Or just "Golden Ticket" Multiball.

Doesnt sound right no matter which way you put it. But it aint going to be changed now...

#1108 5 days ago
Quoted from britrex1:

Just my 2 cents but I was all about getting an LE and have changed my mind after the reveal. I have to say I was not riding the hype train because I haven't done that since Transformers. I was however expecting so much more from this machine because of past JJP machines having so much content and toys in them that I feel this one has fallen flat on its face. Especially since they are still charging the same $ for the LE/CE. I am in the camp of they totally bombed on the sound package which also means to me not a very good theme integration. The rules seem more geared toward collecting wonka bars and not as much of the factory tour which is very disappointing and yes I know the code isn't done yet but I can't see them scrapping most of what is there and starting over. The people that say it sounds like a slot machine are spot on and that sucks as does the announcer guy that is always interrupting what good sounds are in there. I really hate what they did with the pop bumper sounds as I wish they would have used the umpa loompa songs for each kid. Also the lack of interactive mechs (Toys) doesn't help I mean the giant spinning gobstopper is boring and frankly just sad. Sure the floor opening for the "gobble hole" is a cool feature but making it "the most secret machine" and it looks nothing like it to me is also a fail. I think it would have been better as some type of molded bash toy that turned and opened up that hole instead of that blue pad garbage. I hope everyone that gets one will be happy with it but from my perspective this machine is way over priced compared to previous ones and no I'm not comparing it to any other company.

That’s a pretty good summation. At these prices, you have to bring your A game to all facets and not allow what has been compromised to be so glaring.

#1109 5 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

JJP had to bring in deep pockets because they would have gone out of business after Hobbit

Being honest I have a dog in the fight because I own a Hobbit. The latest code and hardware fixes implemented, a few tweaks on coil settings, disable beast mb ball to not start during smaug mb and this game is downright awesome. At this point the only thing that would make someone not like this is if you aren't a fan of The Hobbit series which is OK, but to say it was a bombshell that about bankrupted JJP is just untrue. And for the record (thus far) I''m not overly fond of POTC or DI. DI's theme is terrible and POTC code just seems rough. However I will revisit POTC at a much later date after the code has matured and not just say "it sucks" and deny myself a potential great experience. Wonka looks like a sweet player, but the theme is just not appealing to me and the music is all they have to work with. If you're not a huge Wonka fan I can see this wearing a person thin real quick. Back to me saying earlier, if ya don't like the Hobbit the game won't hold your interest with the same being said for Wonka.

#1110 5 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

It’s on the flyer. And was also on a few of the machines at MGC. The cabinet work, and the mirrored backglass. The only thing we didn’t see was the glittered playfield artwork.

Yes, I’ve already seen the flyer. I would think the alternate playfield art with sparkle would be a lot more important than the cabinet side art which is easily replaceable. We’ve also yet to see what the CE’s Pinblades are going to look like. Or the apron. Or what a red Most Secret Machine and wireforms does for the game's overall look.

Quoted from arcademojo:

Heck, just look at the sales post at the bottom of this page. Shows all three.

No. No, it does not. See above.

I’m already in on a CE, but I would like to actually see one.

#1111 5 days ago
Quoted from frankmac:

Has anyone seen the art on the side blades for the CE?

Don’t think so. It wasn’t at MGC. They said it was still going through final approval.

#1112 5 days ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

Heck, just look at the sales post at the bottom of this page. Shows all three.

No. No, it does not.

#1113 5 days ago

I find it interesting that several people have compared the secret machine rotating toy to the TOM trunk while there is little (or no?) comparison to how similar it is to the Vault in TAF (and we know who designed that game).

#1114 5 days ago
Quoted from Amused_to_Death:

No. No, it does not.

771F4EB2-29A9-4350-8DD1-AEE3BD5B7826 (resized).png
#1115 5 days ago
Quoted from Amused_to_Death:

Yes, I’ve already seen the flyer. I would think the alternate playfield art with sparkle would be a lot more important than the cabinet side art which is easily replaceable. We’ve also yet to see what the CE’s Pinblades are going to look like. Or the red Most Magical Machine and wireforms.
I’m already in on a CE, but I would like to actually see one.

Very true

-1
#1116 5 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

[quoted image]

Would you like to show me the alternate playfield art in those sales posts? The alternate apron? The Pinblades? Apparently you guys don't get it. The CE is supposed to be different in the same way the CE JJPOTC is different from the LE and SE JJPOTC. We've yet to see a CE Wonka. It was stated at the reveal that they're waiting on approval from Warner Bros.

#1117 5 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Don’t think so. It wasn’t at MGC. They said it was still going through final approval.

I believe joe from pingraffix does all jjp pin blades at the factory

#1118 5 days ago
Quoted from iluvak9:

I find it interesting that several people have compared the secret machine rotating toy to the TOM trunk while there is little (or no?) comparison to how similar it is to the Vault in TAF (and we know who designed that game).

Vault in TAF is a wall that blocks a hole then rotates to reveal the hole. In TOM the hole itself revolves, like the floor of the PF in wonka.

#1119 5 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

and POTC code just seems rough. However I will revisit POTC at a much later date after the code has matured

#1120 5 days ago
Quoted from Amused_to_Death:

Would you like to show me the alternate playfield art in those sales posts? The alternate apron? The Pinblades? Apparently you guys don't get it. The CE is supposed to be different in the same way the CE JJPOTC is different from the LE and SE JJPOTC. We've yet to see a CE Wonka. It was stated at the reveal that they're waiting on approval from Warner Bros.

My bad. I just saw your quote, but wasn’t aware that was what you were looking for.

#1121 5 days ago

I think this is the first time it feels like most people would be happy to go with the SE version of a jjp game . If I had unlimited money I would go for the CE but if I was to get one I'd be happy to get the SE. Personally I prefer the stainless steel look over the black powder coat . There is now a poll going so vote on which version you would like to get .

#1122 5 days ago

Wonder if people would have felt better if the price of the SE was $8k or $8500, making the gap to the LE appear smaller.

#1123 5 days ago
Quoted from stpcore:

Jersey jack Pinball did not invite me in to "review" the game. I was invited in to record a panel discussion with the creative team for our podcast. I tried to explain that a few posts ago. I am absolutely a pinball enthusiast. I look for concepts whenever possible versus harping on failures. I shared my thoughts honestly without bias from anyone at JJP. I take the time out of my life to host a weekly pinball podcast because I love pinball. I have never tried to suggest I am a professional reviewer or journalist.

Flynn - not having a dig at anyone when I said that... does you podcast ever review games?

#1124 5 days ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Flynn - not having a dig at anyone when I said that... does you podcast ever review games?

Is there a pinball podcast out there that doesn’t give their opinion or review on games? If so, what exactly do you talk about then?

#1125 5 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

Is there a pinball podcast out there that doesn’t give their opinion or review on games?

I do not listen to podcast, and even if I did I would take their opinions with a grain of salt(especially podcasters who are also distributors)

Whatever happened to Pinball Ninja? We need a totally non-bias review process to avoid all of the fluff. Everyone seems to have an opinion on their definition of what is fun to them, but opinions seem to be all over the board.

-Bring back Pinball Ninja reviews!

#1126 4 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

We need a totally non-bias review process to avoid all of the fluff. Everyone seems to have an opinion on their definition of what is fun to them, but opinions seem to be all over the board.

I remember when I used to read Roger Ebert movie reviews. I wouldn't automatically like or dislike everything he liked or disliked, but he was eloquent enough about it I would understand why he liked it or disliked it. It wasn't about convincing me of his pov, just sharing it.

But what I'm talking about is missing from not just pinball or movies, but everything. We can't have discussions any longer without attempting to sway someones opinion to ours.

#1127 4 days ago
Quoted from frolic:

We can't have discussions any longer without attempting to sway someones opinion to ours.

I totally agree and lately it has turned into a heated debate with both sides trying to prove a point.

I have become more and more neutral over the years. I tend to like games that many do not. My favorite games right now....X-MEN LE, Star Wars LE, Ghostbusters LE, TNA, etc. I have listened to all of the people bashing some of these games and I have even got defensive trying to defend them. I then come to the realization that I simply do not care if other's do not care for them-because I love them. Not worried about them trending downwards in pricing or losing value because they have become keepers. When I give opinions on new titles I try and find both positives and negatives. If the positives outweigh the negative for me then it becomes a game I want in my collection. The only opinion I listen to is the one in my head.

#1128 4 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

Is there a pinball podcast out there that doesn’t give their opinion or review on games? If so, what exactly do you talk about then?

I feel that an opinion is different to a review . SDTM will do a review by category and end up with a higher score on a pin that they're not really into , over one they like more to play , for example Star Wars which finished near the bottom of their ratings but they both love to play it .

#1129 4 days ago
Quoted from screaminr:

I feel that an opinion is different to a review .

When you review something aren’t you giving your opinion on it?

#1130 4 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

I tend to like games that many do not.

I agree , my favourite pin is The Hobbit . I love the theme the shots the modes the music the layout the video clips for me it's the perfect pin , lots of people don't like it and that's fine , it just annoys me when people say it slow and floaty they obviously don't have the machine setup correctly . I'm not a fan of The Addams Family and Tron which lots of people love , it would be boring if everyone had the same opinion .

#1131 4 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

Is there a pinball podcast out there that doesn’t give their opinion or review on games? If so, what exactly do you talk about then?

Indeed. The point is that if you are a platform and you have early access you give first impressions - hugely important.

#1132 4 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

I totally agree and lately it has turned into a heated debate with both sides trying to prove a point.
I have become more and more neutral over the years. I tend to like games that many do not. My favorite games right now....X-MEN LE, Star Wars LE, Ghostbusters LE, TNA, etc. I have listened to all of the people bashing some of these games and I have even got defensive trying to defend them. I then come to the realization that I simply do not care if other's do not care for them-because I love them. Not worried about them trending downwards in pricing or losing value because they have become keepers. When I give opinions on new titles I try and find both positives and negatives. If the positives outweigh the negative for me then it becomes a game I want in my collection. The only opinion I listen to is the one in my head.

Applauds! I posted this in the Wonka Club but i’ll say it again:

Don’t get caught up in the emotional highs and lows of all the fanboys and haters or the vendor comparisons. No one should have any regrets with any vendor’s pin purchase if they find joy and happiness from the machine. Find the machine that provides you that joy and don’t look back.

11
#1133 4 days ago
Quoted from Gasoline:

Applauds! I posted this in the Wonka Club but i’ll say it again:
Don’t get caught up in the emotional highs and lows of all the fanboys and haters or the vendor comparisons. No one should have any regrets with any vendor’s pin purchase if they find joy and happiness from the machine. Find the machine that provides you that joy and don’t look back.

But if everybody else doesn’t approve of a game I buy, how do I know it’s good?

#1134 4 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

But if everybody else doesn’t approve of a game I buy, how do I know it’s good?

How do we know that you will know for sure it is good if we approve of it?

-1
#1135 4 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

When you review something aren’t you giving your opinion on it?

Yes you are , but like the example I gave if you give a " review " category by category you can end up with a higher score on a pin compared the one you prefer to play , which has the lower score including animations , artwork , call outs and whatever than the one that scored higher .

#1136 4 days ago
Quoted from Manimal:

How do we know that you will know for sure it is good if we approve of it?

How will I know that you'll know that they'll know for sure it's good if we know that they approve of it?

#1137 4 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

But if everybody else doesn’t approve of a game I buy, how do I know it’s good?

^^Hits nail on the head. I’m interested in observations made by other pinheads, but my buying decisions aren’t impacted even slightly by the subjective opinions of others. Surprised by how many people care about the popularity of a game, a reveal, or how a game looks like on a computer screen without flipping it in person.

#1138 4 days ago
Quoted from Frogman:

^^Hits nail on the head. I’m interested in observations made by other pinheads, but my buying decisions aren’t impacted even slightly by the subjective opinions of others. Surprised by how many people care about the popularity of a game, a reveal, or how a game looks like on a computer screen without flipping it in person.

This exactly. I've never bought a game I haven't at least played at a show (or a friend's house) a few times to get a feel for it before buying.
I firmly believe that for hobbies like pinball you should always buy based on an emotional connection. That way you won't ever be disappointed.

#1139 4 days ago
Quoted from damadczar:

This exactly. I've never bought a game I haven't at least played at a show (or a friend's house) a few times to get a feel for it before buying.
I firmly believe that for hobbies like pinball you should always buy based on an emotional connection. That way you won't ever be disappointed.

When ACNC was announced, I was beyond in. I told my girlfriend that I was getting it full stop and was ready to put in the down payment. She was the voice of reason though and told me I need to wait to play it. I played it at Pinfest last year and loved it. I am getting one still, but I'm so glad I waited.

I played it again at Pincinnati and told Charlie that story, he looked at me and said she was a smart woman. Even a manufacturer of pinball machines is saying try it before you buy it.

#1140 4 days ago
Quoted from Frogman:

Surprised by how many people care about the popularity of a game

It’s called “resale value anxiety”.

#1141 4 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

It’s called “resale value anxiety”.

Then they shouldn’t be buying games.

#1142 4 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

I totally agree and lately it has turned into a heated debate with both sides trying to prove a point.
I have become more and more neutral over the years. I tend to like games that many do not. My favorite games right now....X-MEN LE, Star Wars LE, Ghostbusters LE, TNA, etc.

The added bonus when you like a pin that most others don't is that you can get them for a very reasonable price.

#1143 4 days ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Indeed. The point is that if you are a platform and you have early access you give first impressions - hugely important.

But you knocked them for a risk of lack of objectivity. What I said was the choice to use ppl like this was never about getting independent, objective views on the product. It was about promotion. It was about getting multiple information channels talking about YOUR product and coordinating information launch.

What better way to control speculation and information than to get the main megaphones to sign on the line with you and agree to YOUR schedule and coordinating?

25
#1144 4 days ago

I really wanted to believe that Willy Wonka would end up finally being THE title from JJP that would entice me to purchase my first JJP machine. Unfortunately, this title was not the one for me after the reveal, the biggest reason was the toys. I was expecting something new, unseen, different. What we got was, well honestly, to me, NOT that. 4 flippers, some magnets, a “vault/trunk” rotating gobble hole that is almost the exact same toy as whats on Oktoberfest, in general operation if not the exact configuration. The artwork and the call outs remind me exactly of the WW slots in Vegas, both in their artwork, their callouts, and the animations, they felt like if you stood them sisde by side they would compliment each other. This is to be expected if WB has final say over the IP and it’s presentation.

I hated the slot machines... take a guess at what Wonka pinball does for me? Yep, hate it just as bad as the slots. And here is what makes it miss the mark... the illusion that the designer failed to achieve was “my” identity... who am I in this story? Am I Charlie, Wonka, Slugworth? Unknown Golden ticket seeker? But we know who got the tickets, we know who got the tour, so finding and collecting Wonka Bars in hopes of finding a ticket are kind of stupid from a players perspective. And using the newest term in pinball I hate, the child name callouts saying “Charlie Bucket Qualified” etc..., what ever happened to “is lit!”? Or using a charcter catch phrase from the actor from a scene when you qualify them? Like when I light Veruka Salt you would hear the “But I want one now!” audio, a grainy and poor animation of the character on the DMD, with a title screen that said what you need to shoot for next or what goal or feature you were building towards, like “two more tickets still out there” call out from anouncer from movie...

I think the identity of the player is the “Producer” or the person without whom this “story” could not be told or experienced. I, as the player, need to make everything happen... I must make people buy and open enough Wonka bars to allow all of the children to find the tickets... and give me shots that are worth thousands of Bars which equals points on my score... give me modes that allow me to build up the Wonka bars opened by each character... even give me some jackpot shot during a multiball that is the last golden ticket... but then end the mode and reveal the fake ticket and there is one last singular mode you have to complete to get Charlie his REAL ticket.

There just seems like there is no journey through the machine like a journey through the story. We are hit with the magic of Wonka like a hot blast from an oven, not with the wonder and anticipation of opening the door to the Chocolate room for the first time. Up until then, it was just a factory tour, not a once in a lifetime glimpse behind the curtain of someone who, flawed by his own inability to connect with the outside world, can connect through the thoughts and experiences of a child, an innocent, not yet spoiled by the greed of adults, but is pure in heart, a champion for all things good in the world.

Where is that feeling when I am done playing this machine? Is it in a cheesy backboard Wonkavator ball lock that is a rehash of TSPP couch? Is it in the spinning Gobbstopper/gobble hole aka trunk/bookcase rehash? Spiral magnets rehash?, Slot machine artwork and callout rehash? I was expecting something that this machine is not, and it does make me question where Pat L. and JJP are headed.

#1145 4 days ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

and it does make me question where Pat L. and JJP are headed.

To the bank!

#1146 4 days ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

I think the identity of the player

Thoughtful and interesting post...

When manufacturers release their pre-made vids that "really" sell the games they should consider aiming for this idea: (great job btw by sdtm to help out and give us good looks up front, much appreciated)

>>> Focus your marketing story from the point of view of the player, not from the point of view of the manufacturer: <<<

Instead of opening with: "We put x,y,z into this and we think you'll love it..." change the marketing narrative to:
"From the moment you drop a quarter in the machine, you are the X in the story attempting to achieve Y in a mysterious world of Z... etc..."

And of course, make sure you actually DESIGN from that point of view...

I'm not asserting that Wonka did or did not hit the mark in both regards, or may or may not down the road, with code updates... but I'm pretty sure, this is the IDEAL way to go about designing games AND the best way to frame a marketing pitch.

My assertion is: Playing pinball or 1-player vids at their best is about the mystery of unlocking a story based on your skill level... Instead of watching a movie or TV show (where you have no control). We choose these media not only for the skill challenge -- but we want to be in control of unlocking a narrative our way. While I'm not a seasoned game producer (in RL or on TV) -- I'm pretty sure this is the favored approach (as a player of vid games for the last 40+ years.)

So in the case of Wonka: Who am I in the story? What is my final goal in the game? What is the mystery of the experience -- what am I slowly unlocking based on my skill? (while these may have been answered already, it sounds like this wasn't made clear for some people)

20
#1147 4 days ago

I know this statement isn't exactly revelatory, but there seems to be so many negative people on Pinside.

I don't think that's unique to Pinside...it's a reflection of the culture at large, but it definitely feels like we have more than our fair share of bitter, angry, and OCD people on here that just seem miserable to me.

This isn't directed at any one person, just a general observation.

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, and no one has to agree with me, but I've been in the hobby for 16 years with pins at home, and I have difficulty understanding how people can't appreciate this design, layout, shots, and flow. I'm not saying you should go out and buy the game or anything...but I would give it chance and not dismiss it.

Is the pin perfect and everything exactly the way you want it? No, of course not, but there's a lot there to love in my opinion. I definitely think the positives outweigh any perceived negatives.

I think a lot of people here take themselves way too seriously.

#1148 4 days ago

thought JJP did a good job with the DI promo video, not sure if they will have their own Wonka one besides the one they showed

#1149 4 days ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Wonder if people would have felt better if the price of the SE was $8k or $8500, making the gap to the LE appear smaller.

Or make the SE at $8000 and the LE at $9000.

#1150 4 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

thought JJP did a good job with the DI promo video, not sure if they will have their own Wonka one besides the one they showed

Man,, they should of used the music in the promo video in the game.

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