(Topic ID: 288507)

Willie Wonka #1! Yikes!! Top 100 algorithm flaw?

By Hjbondar

8 months ago


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  • 36 posts
  • 24 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by Frippertron
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#1 8 months ago

So, Willie Wonks is #1? Absurd!

Why, because the raters of the CE just hit the 25 rater threshold and the Top 100 bases the ratings on the highest score of any of the versions.

Shouldn’t Stern Premiums be averaged along with LE’s to arrive at a single, blended rating. Same for JJP LE and CE. The simple logic is that these additions have the same gameplay.

It seems absurd to have 26 CE rating overwhelm the more than 150 LE raters who scored the same game(from an overall playing perspective) much lower?

Seems like this must have been addressed in the forum before?

#2 8 months ago
Quoted from Hjbondar:

So, Willie Wonks is #1? Absurd!
Why, because the raters of the CE just hit the 25 rater threshold and the Top 100 bases the ratings on the highest score of any of the versions.
Shouldn’t Stern Premiums be averaged along with LE’s to arrive at a single, blended rating. Same for JJP LE and CE. The simple logic is that these additions have the same gameplay.
It seems absurd to have 26 CE rating overwhelm the more than 150 LE raters who scored the same game(from an overall playing perspective) much lower?
Seems like this must have been addressed in the forum before?

Everyone just panic-bought all the CEs up and rated the game a 10 after a few plays, or maybe before receiving the game.

#3 8 months ago

We literally just had this discussion when the new edition of Star Wars showed up at #1.

The game will settle where or belongs as more reviews come in, just give it time. Don't review bomb it to try and bring it down, that's stupid and will ultimately result in it being ranked lower then it should be.

25
#4 8 months ago

You guys might take these reviews a bit too seriously.

#5 8 months ago

Solid showing from JJP at the top of that list. Regardless of position they do make some great games, as do the others!

#6 8 months ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

You guys might take these reviews a bit too seriously.

but muh investment

14
#7 8 months ago

Many CE owners are way too concerned about price-pumping their "investments". They embarrass themselves. It's pathetic.

#8 8 months ago
31DCA1EA-A073-464F-9DF0-5CF33790ACC2 (resized).jpeg
#9 8 months ago

I am just amazed that a game that doesnt suck is actually number 1.

Its like a minor miracle.

#10 8 months ago

lot of new CE owners recently. It wouldnt be #1 for me but I believe it should be in the discussion for top 10. I love the game.

#11 8 months ago

The top 100 is completely pointless as the system is completely broken and the powers that be need to overhaul it. If a negative review gets flagged enough it does not count towards the numeric rating. So fanboys of a particular title can basically eliminate all bad reviews. Reviews are reviews good and bad and all should be counted unless it violates a Pinside rule with something inappropriate or vulgar.

Bottom line...ignore the top 100 until Pinside overhauls the system. Even then it’s all subjective and should be taken worth a grain of salt.

#12 8 months ago

The constant obsession with this is a pinside user flaw. Yikes!

#13 8 months ago

It’s too bad because this could be very useful

#14 8 months ago
Quoted from Hjbondar:

It’s too bad because this could be very useful

It drives traffic to this site and that is its only
Purpose. It is fulfilling its use.

#15 8 months ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

Many CE owners are way too concerned about price-pumping their "investments". They embarrass themselves. It's pathetic.

Or maybe they all really like the game?

#16 8 months ago
Quoted from mystman12:

Or maybe they all really like the game?

Yes. People should like the games they own. I think that's obvious. But, collectively rating their Wonka CEs as the #1 pin of all time is very transparent.

#17 8 months ago

If I were to take the top 100 seriously (cough, cough), recency bias is its biggest problem. And that is plain to see because 90’s W/B games were, are, and always will be the best games and they are slipping.

-2
#18 8 months ago

what if they did it like rotten tomatoes and had the ratings as they are(with the recommended calculation adjustment) and then had a panel of 100 insiders - Have to have had at least 2 year of presence on Pinside- to act as "expert judges"?

#19 8 months ago
Quoted from Hjbondar:

what if they did it like rotten tomatoes and had the ratings as they are(with the recommended calculation adjustment) and then had a panel of 100 insiders - Have to have had at least 2 year of presence on Pinside- to act as "expert judges"?

THat sounds like a lot of work. A ton of work.

What would the people who run this site get out of this exactly, beyond a bunch of boobs continuing to complain about the top 100 from now until the end of time?

#20 8 months ago
Quoted from usandthem:

If I were to take the top 100 seriously (cough, cough), recency bias is its biggest problem. And that is plain to see because 90’s W/B games were, are, and always will be the best games and they are slipping.

I dont know... MM has been #1 forever and I wouldnt even put that in the top 20 all time

Monster Bash is still number 4 and that game frankly kinda sucks other than art.

Kinda nice to see some new games up there.

#21 8 months ago
Quoted from Elvishasleft:

I dont know... MM has been #1 forever and I wouldnt even put that in the top 20 all time
Monster Bash is still number 4 and that game frankly kinda sucks other than art.
Kinda nice to see some new games up there.

I don't know if I would go that far ... kick MM out of the top 20?

It is nice to see some of the newer pins up there. In my opinion MM and MB definitely belong in the top 10

#22 8 months ago
Quoted from Elvishasleft:

I dont know... MM has been #1 forever and I wouldnt even put that in the top 20 all time
Monster Bash is still number 4 and that game frankly kinda sucks other than art.
Kinda nice to see some new games up there.

Those two remain there because of the remakes. All the NIB-only buyers rated them up. Twilight Zone was #1 for over a decade on IPDB and early Pinside. But the NIB folks don’t rate it, or don’t rate it as high, because they can’t buy it NIB with a topper.

#23 8 months ago
Quoted from Goronic:

I don't know if I would go that far ... kick MM out of the top 20?
It is nice to see some of the newer pins up there. In my opinion MM and MB definitely belong in the top 10

Well its an opinion... doesnt mean Im right.

I owned original versions of both back in the day and not only would never want them back I wouldnt even play them in the wild.

They are OK.. but top 10 all time?

#24 8 months ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

Yes. People should like the games they own. I think that's obvious. But, collectively rating their Wonka CEs as the #1 pin of all time is very transparent.

While you're probably not wrong, I would say that such a rating is 100% subjective and doesn't really mean anything at all.

Jeff

#25 8 months ago
Quoted from Elvishasleft:

Well its an opinion... doesnt mean Im right.
I owned original versions of both back in the day and not only would never want them back I wouldnt even play them in the wild.
They are OK.. but top 10 all time?

Everyone has a different Top 100 for sure, and everyone has different tastes.

#26 8 months ago

#1, hardly. But the game is no slouch either.

#27 8 months ago

Ratings are completely subjective. Just because I like a specific game, does not mean you will. That transfers to my rating on a game might be higher than yours and vice versa. I hope nobody is buying games based on pinside ratings!

#28 8 months ago
Quoted from DrJoe:

Those two remain there because of the remakes. All the NIB-only buyers rated them up. Twilight Zone was #1 for over a decade on IPDB and early Pinside. But the NIB folks don’t rate it, or don’t rate it as high, because they can’t buy it NIB with a topper.

LOL, so true.

Wonka is the tits though; such an amazing pin...I dislike the theme, and absolutely love the way it shoots and the code.

#29 8 months ago

The main algorithm flaw is people.

The first guy who comments says he "played the game at a bar" and then reviewed it.

As long as people think its OK to rate games they played once it will always be a crap system.

You should have to prove you own it or something to rate it.

#30 8 months ago
Quoted from Elvishasleft:

You should have to prove you own it or something to rate it.

That would be bad...very few people (except for those who have like 50 machines) own games that they don't like.

If you could only rate games that you own, every game would be rated "good" or "great". A machine would never get a bad rating.

#31 8 months ago

Not sure why Premium/LE models have to be rated separately
Pinside ratings used to group them (ie, Iron Maiden etc...), but that changed beginning with Deadpool onwards
Willy Wonka CE should be grouped with Willy Wonka LE (same gameplay), then we wouldn’t see this inflated current ranking

#32 8 months ago
Quoted from Hawks:

Willy Wonka CE should be grouped with Willy Wonka LE

It is.

The highest rated of the group is what is shown on the list.

Quoted from Hawks:

Pinside ratings used to group them (ie, Iron Maiden etc...), but that changed beginning with Deadpool onwards

For a while, the differences in game editions were mainly cosmetic, so only a single game listing was used in the game archive for multiple editions. However, at some point, that started changing, in addition to there being a significant difference in value between the different editions. So, once the game archive system could support grouping of separate game listings, each edition was then able to have its own game listing. However, unfortunately, for game listings that shared multiple editions prior to this point, it's simply not practical to separate them now due to all the technical hurdles that would need to be overcome.

#33 8 months ago

I posted this in a different thread, but is relevant here...

I'd like to see them implement a "favorites list" system.

Each person gets to list 20 games as being "a favorite".

Then you can rank the games by how many times they appear on someone's list.

The advantage to this is that one person can't screw with the rankings very much. The best/worst they can do is include or exclude a title on their list.

If you love MM, great...put it on your list. If you don't like it...leave it off. There won't be any of this "give it a 10 to try to move it up" or "give it a 1 to try to screw it over".

It also might reduce the "it's a new game so it must be great" factor. It will be harder to automatically include [newest release] on your favorites list if it means you have to remove one of your existing favorites from your list.

#34 8 months ago

The system is clearly flawed. NGG obviously should be #1.

#35 8 months ago
Quoted from mystman12:

Or maybe they all really like the game?

I own the game. It's incredible.

#36 8 months ago

I thought Punchy the Clown was the clear #1, that’s it ! SYSTEM IS FLAWED!!!!!

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