(Topic ID: 186893)

Williams WPC95 Audio / Visual Board ?


By Bendit

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 63 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Bendit
  • Topic is favorited by 10 Pinsiders

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    There are 63 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 2 years ago

    Rottendog has discontinued the production of these boards.

    Board number A-20516-50059 (for Champion Pub).

    Now, there's one for sale on ebay for $2,999.00. I am not kidding:

    ebay.com link » Nos Bally Williams Wpc 95 Pinball Machine Audio Visual Board New Free Shipping

    Where would I find a replacement for this board? Why is it that nobody's producing them?

    Thanks for your input and knowledge. Cheers.

    #2 2 years ago

    Some other posts here on Pinside that discuss the exact problem. One of the chips is unobtainable so the boards can't be remade or fixed.

    #3 2 years ago
    Quoted from FlippyD:

    One of the chips is unobtainable so the boards can't be remade or fixed.

    So you're telling me that a $5000+ Bally or Williams game can be turned into an expensive paperweight just by having this board go bad???????

    #5 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bendit:

    Now, there's one for sale on ebay for $2,999.00. I am not kidding:

    Yeah, that's MAD Amusements's ebay account.

    Quoted from Bendit:

    So you're telling me that a $5000+ Bally or Williams game can be turned into an expensive paperweight just by having this board go bad???????

    You can send the board out for repair--there are some people who have parts in stock, as indicated in the last big AV board thread.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wpc-95-av-board-1

    There is also another option now--if you install a pinsound board along with a WPC-89 board, those two boards can replace the AV board.

    https://www.pinsound.org/wpc95-audiovideo-board-replacement/
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinsound-wpc95-audiovideo-board-replacement/

    #6 2 years ago

    Thanks ForceFlow. It says harness available "very soon". It's promising, but not yet available. Still though, awesome option. Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.

    #7 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bendit:

    It's promising, but not yet available

    That was when the original announcement was made.

    It appears to be available now:

    https://www.pinsound.org/shop/index.php?id_product=20&controller=product&id_lang=1

    #8 2 years ago

    Thanks for the link!
    Hm. Step 4 in the picture that shows how to install the new board, still shows the original AV board being used.
    Am I missing something?

    #9 2 years ago

    The pinsound board can also accompany the AV board, and doesn't have to replace it.

    #10 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bendit:

    Thanks for the link!
    Hm. Step 4 in the picture that shows how to install the new board, still shows the original AV board being used.
    Am I missing something?

    You have to have the OG board or you can use a WPC Video board to work with the Pinsound board.

    #11 2 years ago

    Product page still says "(you must keep your original and functionnal AV Board)".

    #12 2 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    The pinsound board can also accompany the AV board, and doesn't have to replace it.

    Force, my understanding is that the Pinsound board will not work to fix a bad WPC95 board unless you have the Original Board or you can use a WPC av board as well.

    #13 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bendit:

    Product page still says "(you must keep your original and functionnal AV Board)".

    Functional in certain ways, but it doesn't have to be 100% functional. Guys see the link I posted earlier. They talk about the reason you have to keep it in that thread.

    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from paulywalnuts23:

    Force, my understanding is that the Pinsound board will not work to fix a bad WPC95 board unless you have the Original Board or you can use a WPC av board as well.

    If you have a working AV board, the pinsound board can accompany it and you can use the pinsound board for its advanced features or to play a custom sound package.

    If you do not have a working AV board, then you can replace the av board with a WPC DMD driver board and the pinsound board.

    #15 2 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    If you have a working AV board, the pinsound board can accompany it and you can use the pinsound board for its advanced features or to play a custom sound package.
    If you do not have a working AV board, then you can replace the av board with a WPC DMD driver board and the pinsound board.

    Yep.

    #16 2 years ago

    Sure. I got that from your previous post. It's just that the pinsound web site has conflicting information eh? They say that soon they will have a solution that completely bypasses the original AV board. Then you get the adapter that's available on their web site, but the original pinsound board product page still says you need the original board...

    GET IT TOGETHER Pinsound, jeez.

    So what would be a good choice for a "WPC DMD driver board" for Championship Pub ? You guys have a preference?

    #17 2 years ago

    The cheapest functioning one from any WPC game you can find one from.

    Or if you can't find one, the rottendog replacement will do the trick.

    #18 2 years ago

    I have a few working spares that I keep in case I ever need a quick swap, and I would consider selling one but it won't be cheap. I would say $475 plus shipping.

    #19 2 years ago
    Quoted from ReplayRyan:

    I have a few working spares that I keep in case I ever need a quick swap, and I would consider selling one but it won't be cheap. I would say $475 plus shipping.

    for a WPC95 AV board?

    #20 2 years ago
    Quoted from paulywalnuts23:

    for a WPC95 AV board?

    I think his shipping is $2,000, so there's that.

    #21 2 years ago
    Quoted from paulywalnuts23:

    for a WPC95 AV board?

    Yes, an A-20516 WPC95 AV board. Shipping is probably $20 or so.

    #22 2 years ago
    Quoted from schudel5:

    I think his shipping is $2,000, so there's that.

    AH!

    MAD Amusements, is that you!?

    #23 2 years ago

    OK, so in summary, to completely remove your bad WPC95 Audio / Video board and still have sound:

    Order this for WPC95:

    https://www.pinsound.org/shop/index.php?id_product=19&controller=product&id_lang=1

    Which will automatically include this in the price once you select your WPC95 game in the dropdown list:

    https://www.pinsound.org/shop/index.php?id_product=20&controller=product&id_lang=1

    You must then buy this to drive your DMD (since you'll be removing your whole A/V board):

    http://www.rottendog.us/DMD089.html

    Is this correct???????

    #24 2 years ago

    We are working on it, the website and the shop will be shortly updated.
    I've spent half of this day finishing the new manuals...
    Thanks for your patience and your support!

    #25 2 years ago
    Quoted from PinSound:

    Thanks for your patience and your support!

    Pas de probleme! Merci beaucoup d'avoir ecris ici dans cette discussion. J'espere bien pouvoir acheter votre produit tres bientot.
    C'est tres interessant votre carte.
    Merci encore.

    #26 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bendit:

    So you're telling me that a $5000+ Bally or Williams game can be turned into an expensive paperweight just by having this board go bad???????

    Absolutely, this is not a new concept.
    Welcome to the world of pinball.
    In many cases, it might be more akin $8000-10000 today, dependent on the title and condition of the machine.

    Although most are probably not aware now, the same problem occurred in the early 2000s with WPC and WPC-S board sets as the they also were unavailable and games were cannibalized from other lesser non-popular titles as they began to fail. The reason that WPC-95 were not an issue is the games were between 4-6 years old. Now the cycle repeats again as they approach the the 20 year mark.

    This cycle has existed since the dawn of SS electronics.

    The same cycle was repeated for System 11, System 3-7, GTB SS80, GTB System 1, and MPU-35 since 1978, until reproduction boards were made, or parts made available for repair in some cases.
    It is already happening presently with Stern WhiteStar games from the 2000s.
    Many games are being landfilled or warehoused, due to lack of replacement MPU board sets.
    Much to chagrin of Stern, that has no interest in having these games continue functioning, as they make no money from them.

    This is a primary advantage of remaining EMs, and they continue to run like tanks for decades after many SS machines falter due to lack of available electronic parts out of obsolescence. So many early SS machines were dumped at of lack of parts in the early 90s it was not funny.

    Operators with MMrs are also already being butt $#@%ed recently due to primary LED / controller board failure on the the main playfield.
    $299 a replacement, while still available, as most a out of "warranty" quickly. When the board fails, the game goes completely inoperable.

    Your best defense and lesson to be advised is to make sure that your boards are never hacked by unqualified repair personnel.
    Knowledge is power, and now you are more educated.
    Best of fortune.

    "Je vois tout."

    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    Knowledge is power, and now you are more educated.

    I thank you, Sir. This is a well formed, very educational post.

    I was not buying in the '80s. When I see a game I might be interested in, I always hit web sites to make sure parts are somewhat still available. It never occured to me that such an important board, which is shared with STTNG, was rare.

    Pinsound releasing their product as a full board replacement for the A-20516-500XX board is huge news then... HUGE.

    #28 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bendit:

    I thank you, Sir. This is a well formed, very educational post.
    I was not buying in the '80s. When I see a game I might be interested in, I always hit web sites to make sure parts are somewhat still available. It never occured to me that such an important board, which is shared with STTNG, was rare.
    Pinsound releasing their product as a full board replacement for the A-20516-500XX board is huge news then... HUGE.

    Sad thing is this board is used in several of the major B/W games. MM, MB, AFM, and SS to name a few.

    #29 2 years ago

    It's about to get less sad when Pinsound is done re-vamping their web site. That's assuming Pinsound will have the SD card with the sounds for those machines though... Obviously if there's no Pinsound recorded sounds for your game, well, you'll be stuck just the same.

    #30 2 years ago

    I just did a PinSound addition to MonsterBash to completely bypass the audio circuit on my WPC95 A/V board, as the caps were going bad and the game started to hum. If the DMD (visuals) are still good on the board, yes, you will still need the board for video. There is an extra harness they sell (separately) that hooks up both boards. Buy it from KSarcade or Bay Area Amusements. KSarcade's website won't let you order the WPC95 option without adding the harness. So feel safe with that option that you will have all the required parts.

    Install WILL require you to bolt the little Pinsound board off to the side of the AV board. That is, against the bare wood of the backbox. This isn't well explained by the diagrams, but it will become obvious (by the shortness of the cables) where the board has to go once you get everything unpacked.

    I've heard from MOcean that you can use any WPC89 board for the DMD functionality in a WPC95 game as long as you have a PinSound for audio. I trust him. He's good.

    #31 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bendit:

    It's about to get less sad when Pinsound is done re-vamping their web site. That's assuming Pinsound will have the SD card with the sounds for those machines though... Obviously if there's no Pinsound recorded sounds for your game, well, you'll be stuck just the same.

    No SD card; a flash drive that they include. It stays in the game. Update takes about an hour. You download the original game sounds from their website (if that's the route you want to go).

    #32 2 years ago
    Quoted from chadderack:

    I just did a PinSound addition to MonsterBash to completely bypass the audio circuit on my WPC95 A/V board

    Thank you so much for sharing your experience.

    I am buying the Pinsound board now. Woot!

    1 week later
    #33 2 years ago

    pinsound board arrived, with their brand new wiring harness! got the dmd089 board at the ready too. installation to proceed within the next few days...

    20170504_074456 (resized).jpg

    #34 2 years ago

    new dmd board installed, right next to the new pinsound board. need to do some cable management, but it looks nice.

    dmd089 board works in totally replacing the wpc95 av board!

    as i write this, the pinsound board is extracting the sounds zip file that i copied on the usb thumb drive... I'll report later!

    20170506_083601 (resized).jpg

    #35 2 years ago

    This looks to be a good "interim" fix to the continuing problem as more WPC 95 A/V boards become unrepairable along with definite sound improvement. It would nice to see an eventual combined product, whether from PinSound or another company. Quite a capital venture in effort and hard work to say the least.

    #36 2 years ago

    WPC89 DMD boards are plentiful. I count this solution as way more than "interim". I call this the supreme solution, as I do not mind installing a DMD089 board. With the sticky posts that Pinsound supplies with the kit, it's a breeze to install. Both boards are mounted on these sticky posts. Easy as pie.

    Update: On the first board-boot, I waited a couple hours for the ZIP file to be extracted. I rebooted the whole machine and there it was, sounds! Note that I had to reboot in order to make the sound package "engage".

    I have to re-wire my speaker connectors, so in the meantime, I am running Pinsound via line-out to a JBL speaker (you know, the portable bluetooth kind). SOUNDS GREAT!

    #37 2 years ago

    Cool to see someone actually do this. Not exactly a cheap solution but at least it works and you upgrade sound in the process.

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    Not exactly a cheap solution

    Well, cheap in a sense that a used "Williams WPC95 Audio / Visual Board" goes for A LOT these days, if you can find them.

    Here's an example that's just nuts:

    ebay.com link » Nos Bally Williams Wpc 95 Pinball Machine Audio Visual Board New Free Shipping

    Yes, you read it right. $3,000.

    #39 2 years ago

    Pinsound Wpc89 DMD driver is a great solution for now!

    #40 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pbpins:

    Pinsound Wpc89 DMD driver is a great solution for now

    Indeed!

    This is HUGE people. This is revolutionary. If you own a game from the list below, you are NO LONGER bound by the proprietary and unfixable Williams WPC Audio/Visual Board!

    You are free!!!!

    Bally / Williams WPC 95

    Congos
    Attack from Mars
    Safe Cracker
    Tales of the Arabian Nights
    Scared Stiff
    Junk Yard
    NBA Fastbreak
    Medieval Madness
    Cirqus Voltaire
    No Good Gofers
    The Champion Pub
    Monster Bash
    Cactus Canyon

    (not to mention all the amazing features the Pinsound board offers ya!)

    #41 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bendit:

    Well, cheap in a sense that a used "Williams WPC95 Audio / Visual Board" goes for A LOT these days, if you can find them.
    Here's an example that's just nuts:
    ebay.com link ยป Nos Bally Williams Wpc 95 Pinball Machine Audio Visual Board New Free Shipping
    Yes, you read it right. $3,000.

    It will never sell and has been listed for over a year at this point, I think. Besides, that's MAD Amusements.

    Realistically, a working AV board can fetch anywhere between $350 and $400 depending upon how much someone wants it.

    #42 2 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    between $350 and $400

    There you go. My complete replacement solution costs $504.80 (for both boards, shipping/tax included).

    It's not "cheap", but when your $5000+ machine is crippled by a bad A/V board, it's a life saver.

    Longevity of the Pinsound boards are still to be determined. But with a brand new DMD089 board, I'll bet another decade of trouble-free service will be added to the machine, at the very least.

    Right?

    #43 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bendit:

    There you go. My complete replacement solution costs $504.80 (for both boards, shipping/tax included).
    It's not "cheap", but when your $5000+ machine is crippled by a bad A/V board, it's a life saver.
    Longevity of the Pinsound boards are still to be determined. But with a brand new DMD089 board, I'll bet another decade of trouble-free service will be added to the machine, at the very least.
    Right?

    So, get the Pinsound board with WPC95 option and a new Rottendog Williams WPC89/S DMD Controller http://www.rottendog.us/DMD089.html board to completely replace a bad WPC95 A/V board?

    #44 2 years ago
    Quoted from Toucanf16:

    So, get the Pinsound board with WPC95 option and a new Rottendog Williams WPC89/S DMD Controller http://www.rottendog.us/DMD089.html board to completely replace a bad WPC95 A/V board?

    Yep.

    #45 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bendit:

    It's not "cheap", but when your $5000+ machine is crippled by a bad A/V board, it's a life saver.

    Yep, I'm glad we have this safety net now.

    #46 2 years ago
    Quoted from Toucanf16:

    get the Pinsound board with WPC95 option

    Careful there.

    The harness "kit" that Nicolas Manaud (one of the founding brothers) sent me was not yet available directly on their web site. We've exchanged emails and he made sure to send me the correct harness, because he read this forum thread.

    They are working on their web site and updating harness kit selections on there. I haven't checked, maybe it's up on their web site already.

    EDIT: The new harness kit is a harness that cleverly splits the main J605 connector. It's cool. You can see it in the picture I posted above, with my 2 new boards on the table)

    #47 2 years ago

    There is another option--that of doing board repair. Chris Hibler and others (the guy with Boregard! Met him in Texas at TPF) apparently do great work for relatively cheap (if you're talking thousands for replacing the board). I didn't go the board repair route because I'm impatient, but it probably would have cost a little less. That is, assuming you still have the WPC95 A/V board to repair.

    #48 2 years ago
    Quoted from chadderack:

    assuming you still have the WPC95 A/V board to repair.

    I do. But sending the board away is also a gamble. Correct me if I am wrong, but if it's the sound decoding engine chip on the board that's the issue, you're screwed because nobody has them anymore.

    So yes, I am also impatient, but the truth is that I didn't want to send the board away, hope for the best and pay more than half the cost of the new solution in this thread. I don't like to gamble, and I hate having my machines down for months at a time...

    Additional note about the Pinsound harness: It also included 2 new ribbon cables.

    EDIT: Last night, I've heard a DE Star Wars with the Pinsound board. Real orchestral music (John Williams). Holy crap it's awesome. The sound effects are just amazing.

    #49 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bendit:

    I do. But sending the board away is also a gamble.

    Yeah, that's kind of how I felt too... but not because the guys aren't reputable. It was more of a timing thing--I had to get the machine going before a league night and the PinSound option seemed to be the lowest risk.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but if it's the sound decoding engine chip on the board that's the issue, you're screwed because nobody has them anymore.

    That's what they say.

    I don't like to gamble, and I hate having my machines down for months at a time...

    That's why I did the PinSound option with MB.

    #50 2 years ago

    Unless a WPC 95 A/V Board has been hacked by an unskilled individual, the board is normally repairable.

    People get in trouble when they think they can replace the capacitors and end up being sloppy.
    What ruins this board is damage of tracework and sometimes in rare cases the sound ICs going completely bad, but even then sometimes the board can still brought back to life.

    There is never a concern, if you send your board to the dozen or so people that have been doing PCB work for over 25+ years.
    The costs are always manageable.
    If an individual is impatient, that is generally when things go awry.

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