(Topic ID: 180087)

Williams Whirlwind system 11b

By tonytmichael

7 years ago


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#1 7 years ago

I have made a terrible mistake for which I deserve all of the ridicule that I am sure is coming. Today, I installed a 6116 ram adapter in the wrong board position. It was supposed to be installed in the U25 board position, but I mistakingly installed it in the U23 board position, because they both contain a 6116 ram. So, as I see things, I need to procure a Hyundai hy6116ap-108905A chip and holder to resolve the situation. My question is, if this is an easy problem to resolve? Where do I get one, and does it need programming? Are there any unforseen repercussions for my error? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Let the beatings begin! Thank you, Todd

#2 7 years ago

Here is a source for a Williams compatible 6116 chip and the holder is listed in the description.
http://www.actionpinball.com/parts.php?item=6116

#3 7 years ago

Thank you very much! I appreciate the help.

1 week later
#4 7 years ago

Today I installed my board with the new 24 pin chip from action pinball. I am wondering if that chip needed to be programmed. I am missing about half of the sound now. I am still working to find the problem as we speak, but was wondering if anyone had any wisdom for me. Thanks.

#5 7 years ago

What chip...6116 RAM?

Could you post a picture of the board?

#6 7 years ago

Yes 6116. I am taking a picture now. U23 position. As you see when I originated the thread it was a result of my mistake in attempting to alleviate the battery backup problem -ADJUST FAILURE- I replaced the U23 when I should have replaced the U25. They were both 6116. Pic coming shortly.

#7 7 years ago

I identified the u23 and the u25 in the pic with wire marking stickers.

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#8 7 years ago

Are you missing background sounds or missing voices/speech?

I'm just curious what the area around the battery holder looks like.

#9 7 years ago

I am missing the female voice that says "looks like rain" and the multi ball speech prompt that says "feel the power of the wind" . My wife found a similar post that was implying that the j3 connection on the sound board may be suspect, so I am now investigating that. In the last half hour I have been getting partial sounds of which I have been missing ,but they are full of static , so I am suspecting a bad connection/ground. I am investigating that now.

#10 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I'm just curious what the area around the battery holder looks like.

Can you snap a picture?

Also reseat the ribbon cable on both ends between the MPU and the sound board. Reseat the other cables on the sound board as well. Any improvements?

#11 7 years ago

I have re seated and checked all connections. I have checked every braided ground throughout the main cabinet and back box. Just rewired the electrical cord because it was loose at the plug. Trying to consider all possible causes, big or small.

#12 7 years ago

I'll get a picture of the battery holder this afternoon, and post it.

#13 7 years ago

I know the PIA below the battery holder can affect either the sounds or speech (forget which it is) if any battery corrosion gets on the part or eats up the traces leading up to it. Hopefully, you do not have any battery damage on the board.

#14 7 years ago

When I got home from work I just turned it on and tried it and it worked flawlessly for 3 games. The fourth game it started to fail again. I have re seated plugs and ribbon cables as suggested, and checked/tightened all grounds. When I mess around with J1/J2 plugs I can sometimes get it to work. Feels like a connection issue. I am redoing the J1 plug wires to see what happens. Thank you.

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#15 7 years ago
Quoted from tonytmichael:

I am redoing the J1 plug wires to see what happens.

You may even need to resolder the male header pins on the board.

Loots like you are getting there.

#16 7 years ago

System11 (resized).pngSystem11 (resized).pngZooming in on your picture, you do have some battery corrosion on the resistor pack circled in yellow. Best to replace it and sand lightly on the pads and then neutralize with vinegar and then clean with alcohol. These signals go to the U41, that has already been replaced. So it seems the issue is in this area.

Same with TP1, shows signs of corrosion. The test point can at least be resoldered, but you may was to lightly sand it and clean that area with vinegar and follow with alcohol.

Also, you need to remove the battery holder and wipe it down with vinegar and then alcohol. Need to see if any traces were affected under it too.

All the white flakes and solder joints that look like the damaged battery holder connection on the top left need to be dealt with so it does not spread.

#17 7 years ago

You'll have to clip the battery holder off so we can see whats underneath it. Those boards are expensive so i would ether do a remote pack or nvram if your very good at board work. if not comfortable with board work i suggest sending it out.

#18 7 years ago
Quoted from Mitch:

i would ether do a remote pack or nvram if your very good at board work

Post #7 shows he installed NVRAM already.

#19 7 years ago

The problem all started with my effort to eliminate the need for batteries' (besides the "adjust failure" message), hence why I started the thread.

#20 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Post #7 shows he installed NVRAM already.

Yes sorry been reading too many threads today getting them confused.

Either way that battery holder should come off as it still has alkaline on it and will slowly spread.

#21 7 years ago
Quoted from Mitch:

Either way that battery holder should come off as it still has alkaline on it and will slowly spread.

No argument there since I had mentioned that as well as needing to replace the one resistor network/pack above the battery holder.

#22 7 years ago

Thanks Mitchell. I am going to heed all advice and move forward. Thanks to all.

#23 7 years ago

Thank you PBM 40 I could not figure this out without help from people like you.

#24 7 years ago

I am just puzzled as to why when I leave it alone for a period of time, it will work a few times and then fail again. There has to be some wisdom to take from that???

#25 7 years ago

The battery corrosion is causing some intermittent connections. It is like cancer and does spread, so you definitely want to take care of it.

#26 7 years ago

The SR2 pack that has corrosion is a 10-pin 4.7k ohm resistor network. Here is one place you can purchase them. There is a dot on it to signify pin 1, so it matters which way it is soldered in the board. https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=4610X-101-472

#27 7 years ago

Thank you PBM 40. I am going to take the board back out now. I'll keep you posted.

#28 7 years ago

Light sanding with 800 or higher grit is the best. When removing/desoldering corroded parts, it is best to only apply heat to the back side of the board. Applying heat to the corroded side can quickly accelerate the damage to the pad and just make it disappear. Once sanded and neutralized with vinegar, there will not be any issue with the pad/trace.

#29 7 years ago

I am perplexed though. I leave it alone overnight and I get 3 perfect games. I post on pinside for 30 minutes and I go back into the basement and get 1 good game. I understand connection issues, but doesn't this maybe suggest a voltage or other connection issue???

#30 7 years ago

I think that resolving my issue will come from my observations, resulting in asking the right questions. The right questions prompt knowledgeable people to dig deep to make an educated suggestion. Some don't read the thread from its infancy, and suggest short sighted possibilities. Thank you to all that are more detail oriented! Just an observation, as I am new to this.

#31 7 years ago

I took all suggestions. Cleaned slight corrosion from board, re soldered j1, checked sound chips with lighted magnifying arm. And again. Got home put board in, played exactly 3 games and it failed again. This pin worked perfectly 9 days ago. After the 6116 change, I have created an issue. I don't want to puss out, but I am about ready to purchase a replacement board. Are they readily available?

#32 7 years ago
Quoted from tonytmichael:

I am about ready to purchase a replacement board.

You have not completed the work needed. The SR2 I mentioned and even put a link to has not been replaced and you didn't say if you even removed the battery pack to examine the traces underneath.

Getting this board repaired, be it by you or a professional, would be the ideal choice over buying a Rottendog MPU anyday.

#33 7 years ago

Why is it that I can play 3 perfect games with no issues after letting it sit for 12 hours, and then the problem resurfaces. Again this was all after removing the main board. It worked perfectly 9 days ago?

#34 7 years ago

Ever had a corroded battery cable on a car? Can start one day and not another.

#35 7 years ago

I just don't understand. It worked 9 days ago. I'm not saying your wrong, but in my mind why open a new can of worms to adress a sub-standard condition that existed when I removed the board. I'm just trying to remain focused on variables pertinent to what I have just disrupted by removing the board. I worked to remove all corrosion as suggested, but I am trying to keep a focus on what it is that JUST changed. If I chase preexisting conditions and create a new problem, then even if I inadvertently fix the original problem, I may be creating new ones. Thanks. This is good dialogue. I am ordering a new battery holder.

#36 7 years ago
Quoted from tonytmichael:

I just don't understand. It worked 9 days ago. I'm not saying your wrong, but in my mind why open a new can of worms to adress a sub-standard condition that existed when I removed the board. I'm just trying to remain focused on variables pertinent to what I have just disrupted by removing the board. I worked to remove all corrosion as suggested, but I am trying to keep a focus on what it is that JUST changed. If I chase preexisting conditions and create a new problem, then even if I inadvertently fix the original problem, I may be creating new ones. Thanks. This is good dialogue. I am ordering a new battery holder.

Few things. First, you don't need a battery holder at all if you're keeping the NVRAM. So just remove it and leave it off.

The thing with corrosion as others have said is that it can be intermittent. It could also be related to heat. What happens if you turn the game on and leave it sitting in attract mode for a while before playing? You have heat building up in the backbox and it could be causing an issue. Have you gone through everything to make sure none of your header pins are cracked, or maybe either of the sockets you've touched may have a cold or cracked solder joint?

#37 7 years ago

I understand PBM40. Just hoping for a little luck this evening. I will do my due diligence. Thanks.

#38 7 years ago

Nothing wrong with having the board sent for repair. Definitely would be about half or less of the cost of buying a new board. People have been known to have problems with new boards. Not likely to have the same issue you have now, but a different one.

#39 7 years ago

Alrighty! Removed board, checked continuity for all header pins, and all 4 sound chips on the main board. Also removed battery holder. As I feared, not only does it still have the original issues, but now I have brand new problems!!!! I am getting the status error prompt, and am receiving about a dozen playfield errors. Right ramp error etc, etc, and the list goes on. WTF???? Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Attaching photo of what lied under battery holder.

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#40 7 years ago

PBM40 I went through the entire thread again and realized that there were suggestions from you that I have not carried through. Will continue to work toward a full resolution. Thank you again.

#41 7 years ago

Is that corrosion on the leg of the chip in socket u41 hard to tell in this picture.
Also how are your soldering and board repair skills. I see you completely destroyed the center positive pad when removing the battery holder and there wasn't even acid damage on that one. Plus that's a robust pad if you damaged that one that much I'd hate to see what you did to the pads and traces of the ram chips. Any pictures of the ram chips after removing and replacing( front and back of board)

I would HIGHLY recommend sending the board out to a pro before you destroy it. It's a expensive board and the aftermarket replacements don't work that great.

#42 7 years ago

Point well taken Mitch. I am sending it for repair. Thank you.

#43 7 years ago

Sounds good. You sure don't wanr to miss cleaning any alkaline damaged parts or traces. Intermittent problems make it tough to locate sometimes. Don't forget to mention you have some missing speech phrases.

#44 7 years ago

Very good PBM40. Thank you. Todd

#45 7 years ago

Does anyone have a suggestion as to who I should send the board to for repair? Thank you.

#47 7 years ago

I've heard nothing but good things about his work.

#48 7 years ago

A few years ago Ed Cheung did some board work for me on my WW System 11 board and was able to bring it back from the dead.

#49 7 years ago

Thank you for the advice.

I talked to Clay Harrell this morning just after I posted for your help, and he referred me to Jerry Clause.

I am going to drop it and the auxillary sound board off to his shop on Friday.

Thanks to all for your help, and thank you for being patient with me.

I heeded all of the advice that I could, but knew that I was getting over my head!

2 weeks later
#50 7 years ago

Do you have any updates?

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