(Topic ID: 240187)

Williams Triple Strike help please.


By crujones4life

17 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 47 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 days ago by HowardR
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 9 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

Pinball (resized).png
20190416_183645 (resized).jpg
2F17E17A-3562-4CB3-ADBC-BBA80C614656 (resized).jpeg
15547933424336825554485366230553 (resized).jpg
15547932039906405781740530331339 (resized).jpg
155478835828595738560255620621 (resized).jpg
15547883029562992790250810398420 (resized).jpg
7CA29025-8763-4F55-A6EC-18641EBAC2B4 (resized).png
57D9D66A-FCBA-4D01-B580-1F2DA9F137CB (resized).png

#1 17 days ago

Having some trouble with my Triple Strike. Got it playing pretty good but still some issues mainly bonus related I think. Problem is I don't know how this game is supposed to score bonus points (number of points for example).

1. When I go into the hole at the start of the game. The 1 lights up top. Next time the 2...then 3,4,5. Questions are besides the 500 points or 5000 points scored for going in the hole. Am I supposed to get bonus points for going in the hole when I drain? Also sometimes going in the hole first scores 100...pause...then 500 more points and then ball will eject. Also does the 1 through 5 lights never reset during a game? After draining my lights do not reset. So 2 is lit...drain...new ball and 2 is still lit.

2. Rollover buttons work and strikes will score. Each strike is labeled as 10000 points on playfield. Is that when scored or bonus points? Cause I usually get 5000 points when I drain.

Actually it seems like I almost always get 5000 points when I drain after either going in the whole or scoring a strike...hard to troubleshoot when I don't know how it should score when working correctly...lol.

#2 17 days ago

Manual and schematic can be found here.

https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=Triple+strike&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#2652

57D9D66A-FCBA-4D01-B580-1F2DA9F137CB (resized).png
#3 17 days ago

I’ll include this thread so you understand how the kickout hole works with the lights. The 3 stays lit when you advance to 4 & 5.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-triple-strike-eject-hole-issue#post-2691077

The lights should always reset to none lit at the start of every new ball. They do not carry over.

#4 17 days ago

Thanks Mikala. I actually have the manual and schematics. I just have trouble understanding the scoring on this one. Especially the bonus. Are the 1 to 5 lights only there to count me up to 3 and 5 for blue star and special respectively? So 1,2,4 are essentially meaningless? These numbers and the kick out hole up top have nothing to do with bonus at end of ball?

#5 17 days ago

What about the strikes? Am I supposed to score 10000 when I get the strike or as a bonus when ball drains. Cause all I get when ball drains is 5000 points.

#6 17 days ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

Also sometimes going in the hole first scores 100...pause...then 500 more points and then ball will eject

So when this happens the eject relay releases early before all 500 points can score and before eject coil fires.

As for why...dunno.

And man...the bonus countdown is driving me nuts. Been all over the schematics, fine tuning and cleaning relays and score motor switches. Can't figure it out. Almost always I get 5000 points for bonus when ball drains no matter what I should score.

#7 16 days ago

Sunday evening bump. Any ideas at all are much appreciated. I feel like I can't narrow down where I need to be looking...

#8 16 days ago

I think you have multiple issues to address. You have multiple steppers that need to work smoothly in order for this game to work correctly. Make sure all of the steppers are moving freely and not sticking. Just step them up and down by hand and see if they are working correctly.

Top hole scores 500 points every time you land in it. 5000 if green star lit. How long the ball sits in the hole has nothing to do with the points added. It triggers a relay to the 100 unit.

You may have a stuck 100 Playfield switch. At the start of game, does the 100 drum unit hum like it is trying to score 100 points? If so, look for a stuck pf switch.

Which mode do you have your game set up in? Novelty, replay, or extra ball mode? This will also effect PF scoring.

#9 16 days ago

Game play for extra ball mode.

7CA29025-8763-4F55-A6EC-18641EBAC2B4 (resized).png
#10 16 days ago

Each of the 10 pin roll overs score 10points when you roll over them. When the ball drains, you should score 1000pts for every pin not lit. If you have a strike, then 10k plus each pin out.

If you are scoring 5000 points every time you drain, the 1-10 bonus unit may be stuck. Check it and clean it. It is located on (under) the Playfield. I did a full restoration on my game and remember this unit being very gummy and seized up.

If you read the whole manual, not the schematic, most of the answers to your questions are right there. Go see a man about a horse and read it.

#11 16 days ago
Quoted from Mikala:

You may have a stuck 100 Playfield switch. At the start of game, does the 100 drum unit hum like it is trying to score 100 points? If so, look for a stuck pf switch.

I don't think this is happening but I will certainly check for a stuck 100 point switch.

Quoted from Mikala:

Which mode do you have your game set up in? Novelty, replay, or extra ball mode? This will also effect PF scoring.

I have set up in extra ball mode.

Quoted from Mikala:

If you are scoring 5000 points every time you drain, the 1-10 bonus unit may be stuck. Check it and clean it. It is located on (under) the Playfield. I did a full restoration on my game and remember this unit being very gummy and seized up.

I have completely dismantled and cleaned both the eject advance unit and 1 to 10 bonus unit. Both were filthy. They step nice and easy by hand. Actually they did even before I cleaned them. Maybe the switches aren't set correctly. Could you by chance post some pics of yours? Maybe the unit isn't pulsing when it should...

I appreciate your help. So are you thinking the bonus scoring issue is related only to the bonus unit and not a score motor switch/switches?

#12 16 days ago

You can test your 1-10 unit with PF up. Score all 10 pins, see if it rotates and a strike is rewarded. Drain ball and watch the unit. Does it count down the bonus? Does it reset at new ball?

As with any game. Fiddling with the score motor should always be your last resort, especially with this game. Too many things in this machine depend on that score motor working perfectly. You mis-adjust one switch, you create 5 new problems.

#13 16 days ago

Hi
I do not know the pin --- Mikala - is it a "typo" Your writing in post-10: When the ball drains 1000 points are given for every UNLIT pin ? Here https://www.ipdb.org/files/2652/Wms_TripleStrike0001.pdf on page-21 (ori-19) I read: 1000 points for every relay tripped ...

crujones4life - You have lifted the playfield - You simulate "ball plays, makes points , hits ONLY one of the pins on the playfield - You simulate ball drains - what is the 1 to 10 Bonus-Unit (mounted on the underneathside of the playfield) doing ? It must step TEN steps --- how many thousands-points You get when the unit steps the 10 steps ? Mikala did ask an alike question in post-10 and post-12. Greetings Rolf

#14 16 days ago

Not a typo. Pins start lit. When you roll over one, relay for that pin is tripped and that light goes out. When all relays are tripped (roll over the last pin), a strike light goes on, strike bonus unit steps up twice, and the whole bank of 1 to 10 relays reset.

#15 16 days ago

The pins always only score 10 points for rolling over them. The rest of the scoring is when bonus is collected at the end of ball.

Bonus scoring process:
1. 1 to 10 bonus unit steps up 10 times (two cycles of the scoring motor). Each step is connected to the thousand point score relay through one of the 1 to 10 relays. If the relay is tripped (light was out), then it scores 1,000 points. If the relay was not tripped, it scores nothing. (Total scoring for this phase is between 0 and 9,000 points).
2. The strike bonus relay steps down once per scoring motor cycle, scoring 5,000 points per scoring cycle. (Since the scoring of strikes steps up the bonus unit *two* steps, that's a total of 10,000 per strike.) This continues until the strike bonus unit reaches zero, so it will run 0, 2, 4, or 6 cycles for 0, 1, 2, or 3 strikes.
3. If the hold bonus relay was not tripped, the 1 to 10 relay bank resets. If the hold bonus relay was tripped, the 1 to 10 relay bank *does not* reset, and the strike bonus unit steps back up to its previous position (strike lights will re-illuminate).
4. Bonus cycle is done. Either ball is launched to shooter lane or game over illuminates (depending on ball count unit).

#16 16 days ago

Hi PSchwisow
thanks for clarification (post-14 and post-15). My Shangri La also has an bank of relays - they drop when I make an Red-1, Red-2, Red-3, White-1, White-2, White-3, Blue-1, Blue-2, Blue-3 Roll-Over / Target --- but Shangri La starts whith unlit rollovers / targets ... https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2110&picno=2001 Greetings Rolf

#17 16 days ago

I think the designer assumed that in the context of bowling it would be clearest to the player that a lit pin is "standing up" and needs to be "knocked down" by rolling over it, causing the light to go out.

One more thing to be aware of, there is a difficulty adjustment that ties some of the pins together into pairs. You only need to roll over one of the two to trip both of them. If, for example, you roll over "7", it also trips "10". Depending on the adjustment, it may also tie together 8 and 9, 4 and 6, and 2 and 3.

#18 16 days ago

.

#19 16 days ago

Did I leave you speechless?

Some day we should meet, Mikala. We seem to run into each other on all the Triple Strike-related threads and we're only a couple towns apart.

#20 15 days ago

Great info here! Thanks guys I will dig in and report back!

#21 15 days ago

Ball 1...Hit pin number 1. Drain. 1 to 10 bonus unit pulses 10 times and no bonus is awarded.

Ball 2...Hit pin number 1. Drain. 1 to 10 bonus units doesn't pulse at all and 5000 points are awarded.

Ball 3...Go in eject hole. Eject advance unit doesn't pulse. 100 points given and no kickout. Go in eject hole again. Eject advance unit does pulse. 500 points given and kickout activated.

Hit pin number 1. Drain. 1 to 10 bonus units doesn't pulse at all and 5000 points are awarded.

Ball 4...Hit pin number 1. Drain. 1 to 10 bonus units doesn't pulse at all and 3000 points are awarded.

Ball 5...Hit pin number 5. Drain. 1 to 10 bonus units doesn't pulse at all and 5000 points are awarded.

The 1 to 10 bonus unit and eject advance unit both are pulsed by motor impulse D.

#22 15 days ago

15547883029562992790250810398420 (resized).jpg155478835828595738560255620621 (resized).jpg
#23 15 days ago

If anyone advises using jumper wires...I have them but just cannot comprehend where to place them...lol.

#24 15 days ago

In the meantime I will disassemble and clean both units again.

Update - Well...no change.

#25 15 days ago

At position zero at start of game...best pics I could get.

15547932039906405781740530331339 (resized).jpg15547933424336825554485366230553 (resized).jpg
#26 15 days ago

To confirm that zero switches are working, you could try manually advancing the bonus units and eject hole stepper with the power off and then confirm that they end up back at zero when you hit the start button. (Note that reset cycle takes extra long if strike bonus unit is not at zero to start.)

#27 14 days ago
Quoted from PSchwisow:

To confirm that zero switches are working, you could try manually advancing the bonus units and eject hole stepper with the power off and then confirm that they end up back at zero when you hit the start button. (Note that reset cycle takes extra long if strike bonus unit is not at zero to start.)

When I step both steppers with power off then press start after powering on then they both always reset to zero.

Any chance the giant bank of no 1 to no 10 relays could be the problem? I am stumped.

#28 14 days ago

Progress! Motor switch 5A was not opening. Adjusted and 1 to 10 bonus fires after every ball drain now! What's great is that pins 4 - 10 all score 1000 bonus points each when ball drains. 1 - 3 are still not scoring bonus and a strike still scores 5000 instead of 10000. Super pumped i finally made some progress. Off to bed now...lol. Any ideas at what to look at next regarding pins 1-3 not scoring bonus ( maybe no 1 to no 3 relays? ) and strikes scoring incorrect bonus are much appreciated!

Just realized my eject advance unit issue is resolved! BOOM!

#29 14 days ago

It's consistently the 1-3 that don't score bonus? Check that the 1 to 10 bonus unit doesn't have any broken solder joints and that the wiper fingers are making good contact in those positions. Check the switches on the 1-3 relays in the big rely bank.

If you prop up the playfield and start a game, manually trigger all the pins to score a strike. Does the strike bonus step up *twice*? (it should) Trigger outhole relay. If you've scored one strike, score motor should run four cycles (two for current pins, two for strike). Does the strike part of the cycle run only once, or does it run twice but not score 5 times for each cycle?

#30 11 days ago

Well in working on it today something messed up. Now game won't finish reset sequence. Score reset to zero. No1 to no10 reset bar keeps firing as well as score reset relay. Already verified zero switches open on score reels...ideas?

#31 11 days ago

What was I doing when things went to shit you ask? I was cleaning and adjusting the 1 to 10 bonus unit yet again. I have since taken it apart a couple more times since then and don't believe it to be the cause of my issue but I certainly don't know that to be true.

#32 10 days ago

I have tried several times now looking at switches on relays that cause score motor to run. Not seeing any issues. Could a score motor switch cause the motor to keep running?

#33 10 days ago

Well I somehow overlooked a broken wire on the 1 to 10 bonus unit! Feck! Score motor no longer runs continuously.

#34 10 days ago

My strikes now score 10000 points bonus each! Was score motor switch 3D not opening. Only thing left to troubleshoot now is why pins 1 to 3 don't score bonus. They do score 10 points when rollover hit but no bonus is scored for them.

#35 10 days ago

You know pins 2 and 3 are the first two pins to score bonus and pin 1 is the last...could I have a timing issue?

#36 10 days ago
Quoted from PSchwisow:

It's consistently the 1-3 that don't score bonus?

Yes.

Quoted from PSchwisow:

Check that the 1 to 10 bonus unit doesn't have any broken solder joints and that the wiper fingers are making good contact in those positions

No broken solder joints. From what I can see the fingers seem to be making good contact. I sanded and cleaned with alcohol.

Quoted from PSchwisow:

Check the switches on the 1-3 relays in the big rely bank.

I have cleaned with alcohol and flex stone. Switch contacts are making good contact.

#37 9 days ago

Any ideas at all are most appreciated.

#38 8 days ago

Would anyone be willing to post a picture of the 1 to 10 bonus unit switches in each of the three possible positions?

#39 8 days ago

I printed a manual from IPDB when I redone a dead machine. Their are diagrams for the bonus steppers.

#40 8 days ago
Quoted from frb:

I printed a manual from IPDB when I redone a dead machine. Their are diagrams for the bonus steppers.

I have a manual but it doesn't show the switch positions on the stepper. I don't even know if I am on the right track here. I feel like I have tried everything a dozen times. Pins 1 to 3 never ever score bonus points.

#41 8 days ago

could be timing issue. 1-10 bonus unit energizes and pulses thru Imp-D on motor. It is held on thru M/B on 1-10 set up relay. This M/B switch passes circuit to strike relay. The physical switch on 1-10 bonus unit has switches on itself. One of which opens circuit for 1-10 set up which stops 1-10 bonus unit and passes the circuit off to the strike bonus unit. If you look at 1000 pt relay to see path for 1000 point bonus scoring it is thru a physical switch on the 1 thru 10 relays and then thru the wipers on the unit itself.

#42 7 days ago

Sorry, I didn't have a chance to get a photo earlier today, but I'll try to get to that. I can tell you from memory that the actuator for the switches is down when the stepper is at zero position, moves up for positions 1 - 8, moves up *more* at position 9, and then goes back down for zero. One switch is open at zero and the other is closed at zero, but I can't remember which is in which position at the moment. Even though the actuator is farther up in the 9 position, the switch positions are the same as the 1 - 8 positions.

#43 7 days ago
Quoted from PSchwisow:

Sorry, I didn't have a chance to get a photo earlier today, but I'll try to get to that. I can tell you from memory that the actuator for the switches is down when the stepper is at zero position, moves up for positions 1 - 8, moves up *more* at position 9, and then goes back down for zero. One switch is open at zero and the other is closed at zero, but I can't remember which is in which position at the moment. Even though the actuator is farther up in the 9 position, the switch positions are the same as the 1 - 8 positions.

Thanks! Any chance you could post a top down pic of the score motor? I want to make sure my switch stacks are in the right position.

#44 7 days ago

2F17E17A-3562-4CB3-ADBC-BBA80C614656 (resized).jpeg
#45 7 days ago

HowardR saved me and my sanity yet again! In 5 minutes over the phone! Broken wire on no4 relay. Thanks to everyone who offered their time and assistance!

20190416_183645 (resized).jpg
#46 7 days ago

Oh, that's tricky... the problem was not in 1, 2, or 3, but in the next relay down the line. Nice work finding that!

#47 7 days ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

Pins 1 to 3 never ever score bonus points.

From the picture in post 45
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-triple-strike-help-please#post-4945936
I'd have expected Pin 4 to not score bonus points either. In either case, the broke wire was here.

Pinball (resized).png
Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 229.99
Lighting - Led
PinballBulbs
$ 15.00
Playfield - Plastics
Bright Lights Pinball
$ 128.00
Playfield - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
From: $ 209.99
Lighting - Led
Comet Pinball
$ 45.50
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
$ 11.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
$ 24.00
Playfield - Other
Pin Monk
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 26.50
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
$ 175.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
$ 229.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 239.99
Lighting - Led
PinballBulbs
From: $ 5,799.00
Pinball Machine
Pinball Pro
$ 12.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 20.00
Playfield - Decals
Flashinstinct
$ 9.90
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
pinballmod
$ 69.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 369.00
Cabinet - Decals
Mircoplayfields
$ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 295.00
Lighting - Interactive
...redshiftLED
$ 229.99
Lighting - Led
PinballBulbs
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside