(Topic ID: 307457)

williams travel time no game over if powered off during game

By metalguy

2 years ago



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  • 10 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by baldtwit
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Travel Time Ball Release (resized).jpg
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#1 2 years ago

Williams travel time. Game over works fine during game play. Clock unit resets one step at a time to open zero position switch. With ball in outhole, zero position relay closes and game over relay trips.

If I power down mid ball and powerback on with ball in outhole and hit left flipper it kicks the ball back out, the game over relay was tripped but no zero position switch closing due to clock unit total reset not firing. If I manually fire the coin relay the clock unit total reset does work. I would think total reset should fire at this time to go into game over?

The lock relay is fine also, not mechanically sticking and switches ok.

I have the schematics but dont know how to post them on here. What is the best way to do that (so I can highlight circuits and what not)

Thanks

#2 2 years ago

IPDB has the schematic. You can post schematic fragments by either of the methods mentioned here or else just paste them from the clipboard.
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from metalguy:

If I power down mid ball and powerback on with ball in outhole and hit left flipper it kicks the ball back out, the game over relay was tripped but no zero position switch closing due to clock unit total reset not firing.

I don't think the Ball Release should return the ball to the shooter lane if the Game Over relay is tripped:
Travel Time Ball Release (resized).jpgTravel Time Ball Release (resized).jpg
Does the switch at the bottom right open when the Game Over relay has tripped?

/Mark

#4 2 years ago

If you just press the credit button, will it just start a new game.
My Gulfstream acts the exact same way if I turn it off midgame. Just continues next ball when I turn it back on or I just have to hit the credit button to start a new game.

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

I don't think the Ball Release should return the ball to the shooter lane if the Game Over relay is tripped:
[quoted image]
Does the switch at the bottom right open when the Game Over relay has tripped?
/Mark

not sure mark I will check when I get back to the shop.

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from Mikala:

My Gulfstream acts the exact same way if I turn it off midgame. Just continues next ball when I turn it back on

Is that the expected behavior? Gulfstream has a nearly identical Ball Release circuit as the one above. If you cut power mid game and power it up again does your Game Over relay trip?

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Mikala:

If you just press the credit button, will it just start a new game.
My Gulfstream acts the exact same way if I turn it off midgame. Just continues next ball when I turn it back on or I just have to hit the credit button to start a new game.

Yes it will start a new game but the ball is already in lane and that’s not correct. It leaves the game basically where it was at power off. On your gulfstream that sounds like the hold/ lock relay staying on I think.

#8 2 years ago

I have played multiple Williams EM’s from this period (72-74) and I recall them all acting this way. So I just left mine as is and figured there’s nothing to fix.

Quoted from MarkG:

Is that the expected behavior? Gulfstream has a nearly identical Ball Release circuit as the one above. If you cut power mid game and power it up again does your Game Over relay trip?

Yes, I believe the G/O relay does trip because I do have to hit the left flipper to turn it on, but it starts up right where I left off sans one ball.

3 weeks later
#9 2 years ago

So I picked up a gulfstream and got it going and it appears mikala is correct. I guess this era of Williams doesn’t go to gameover if you power down mid game.

#10 2 years ago

the outhole relay may power when you turn the game on and wake it up, but the ball release coil should not power and kick the ball to the shooter when the game over relay is tripped.

so ... turn on the game and verify the game over relay is tripped and the lock relay is not powered. Hit the left flipper button and the lock relay should power, but a ball should not leave the outhole.

if the game over relay is tripped, the switch on it is correctly open (BLUE-Y-W to RED) and you still get a ball, then you have to look for some non-obvious path that is connecting the ball release coil power to the transformer.

tmi:
-----

pushing the left flipper button powers the lock relay. The lock relay then stays powered forever assuming you don't kick the cabinet too hard and don't turn off the power.

the game over relay is a trip relay. Once it's tripped, much of the game is dead per markg's schematic chunk he posted. Match light is on and other game over lighting is on. This is not recoverable except by manually untripping the game over relay or resetting the game.

if you hold closed the left flipper switch or misadjust a lock relay switch always closed, then when you turn on the game it's a race between the lock relay powering and the game over relay tripping. The game over tripping is supposed to always win.

some games didn't have the left flipper wake up ... the lock relay just powered when the game was turned on and it was always a race. The game over relay won (tripped) because its coil was faster acting.

in any case, is you aren't messing around and just turn on the game, the game over relay on time travel and gulfstream should trip. If it doesn't, then you have the chance of being in an inconsistent game state.

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