(Topic ID: 238691)

Williams Toledo 6 playfield lights short on bank reset?

By steviechs

5 years ago


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  • 20 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by marschner
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

I'm finishing up the last bug on a Williams Toledo. The playfield lights for Extra Ball (1 in each inlane) and the spot arrow & 500 point lights for #6 and #7 targets are all blown. I swapped in new lights assuming they were just burnt out, but when the reset bank fires these lights all go super bright and typically blow out within 1-2 bank resets. Is it possible that there is a short from through the 115v bank reset bar to these lights?

Extra Ball is a tough one to troubleshoot because it's controlled through the A, B, C, D relay AND the #6, #7, or #8 relay based on jones plug adjustment. I'm confused because looking at the schematic, I'd almost expect #8 lights to have the same affliction, blowing on reset. But thinking back, the jones plug was originally set to a different adjustment and only the Extra Ball and #6 lights were blowing. I have it now on the 7 setting and both #6 and #7 are blowing + EB.

Any thoughts or pointers on what to look for on this one?
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#2 5 years ago

The number targets go thru the Advance Unit. Have you checked that for shorts, etc?

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#3 5 years ago
Quoted from currieddog:

The number targets go thru the Advance Unit. Have you checked that for shorts, etc?
[quoted image]

No I haven't. Besides shorts, what else would be in the "etc." to check for?

#4 5 years ago
Quoted from steviechs:

Besides shorts, what else would be in the "etc." to check for?

A habit of mine, adding that. Shorts are actually the only thing I can think of that would be the cause, although maybe a failing coil.

#5 5 years ago

Did you check the switches (they're double) on ROs?

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Did you check the switches (they're double) on ROs?

Checked the make/break switches on the A,B,C,D,6, & 7 relays.

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from steviechs:

Checked the make/break switches on the A,B,C,D,6, & 7 relays.

I mean the ones under the PF.

#8 5 years ago

What about this capacitor? The glowing brightly description you gave of what they do before they blow made me think of something on one of my older Gottliebs. I don't know if it's on or by the bridge rectifier.

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#9 5 years ago
Quoted from currieddog:

What about this capacitor? The glowing brightly description you gave of what they do before they blow made me think of something on one of my older Gottliebs. I don't know if it's on or by the bridge rectifier.
[quoted image]

Wouldn’t that affect most of the GI?

#10 5 years ago

Probably. I was looking for a resistor on the schematic, because this reminds of what happened on my Mayfair. Lite would last for a game or two. Right now I'm kind of flailing ...

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Right now I'm kind of flailing ...

Me too. But I have a theory to test out tonight with the Jones plug. I’ll take a look at the other items you suggested as well and report back

#12 5 years ago

My test was to remove the Jones plug connection and see if the issue persisted. It did for the Extra Ball light blowing.

However, I’m not getting any of the spot numbers or 500 lights blowing anymore (had to replace the lights to test the Jones plug theory). So good news there although unsure what changed.

I did notice that the extra ball light is getting a slight current and barely glows when the Special Relay is open. When the 26B make/break switch has contact to the break side, the low glow on the Extra ball light goes out. I’m wondering if this could be part of my problem ....but it’s too late to think straight

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#13 5 years ago
Quoted from steviechs:

I did notice that the extra ball light is getting a slight current and barely glows when the Special Relay is open. When the 26B make/break switch has contact to the break side, the low glow on the Extra ball light goes out.

Give a good yank on the connections, and check for wire breaks and cold solders. You could also try a jumper wire to confirm.

1 year later
#14 3 years ago

steviechs
Did you ever find the reason for the problem? I am having nearly exact the same issue on my Toledo and can´t find the reason for the blown bulbs after bank reset.

2 weeks later
#15 3 years ago

marschner Sorry for the delay, I just saw there was a new post here.

I sold the game not long after this and to be honest, do not recall how I got it fixed. I even went back in my phone and watched a slow motion video of the issue but can’t recall the exact fix. That 26B make/break may have been gaped incorrectly with contact being made on both switches. I also may have added electrical tape to the reset bar just cause I had run out of other ideas.

Have you gotten any further with your issue?

#16 3 years ago

Sounds like an issue on many Williams games that sport long relay banks underneath the playfield... over time the bakelite stacks dry out and the entire stacks, or sometimes individual switch blades in those stacks will move and cause a short against the metal frame... make sure your switch stacks and individual switches are aligned in the middle of the individual relay frame, and then tighten down for good measure.

I've had two games with this issue - another Toledo that I just finished for a customer, and a Solids N Stripes that took me forever to fix. Jim Palson from JT amusements turned me on to this problem with my S&S, and saved me hours of frustration when dealing with a customer's Toledo.

1 week later
#17 3 years ago

steviechs Dono
Actually I solved it finally
It was a short between 6V and 24V on the "C" relay switch 6A and 6B.
The reason was old very sticky grease on the reset bar on the bank. When resetting, the bar would "drag" the little brass trigger into 2 switches causing the short.

#18 3 years ago

Dono
Do you know if there are still parts available for Toledos? I need a better playfield than mine when possible.

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from marschner:

Dono
Do you know if there are still parts available for Toledos? I need a better playfield than mine when possible.

Nothing new for this title as far as playfields unfortunately, as it's not an ultra-popular title triggering reproduction PFs... your best bet would be to get a donor game or luck into one at one of the shows... you might want to search for a 'playfields wanted' post on this site (there are quite a few), or create your own on the Electromechanical EM subgroup. The good news is that they made a lot of Toledos, good luck on your search.

#20 3 years ago

Dono
Thanks for your answer

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