(Topic ID: 208726)

Williams System 6/7 sound board extremely low volume

By debaser

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 15 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Tomass
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 6 years ago

I'm working on a sound board out of a Williams Jungle Lord. It's got the Sound Rom 3 on it. I'm testing this in my Blackout cabinet (both use the same sound board) with the W1 jumper in place, the speech board disconnected and both dip switches set to Off and connector J3 on the sound board disconnected.

Both fuses were blown and the bridge rectifier was bad so I replaced those. Tested 5/12/-12 voltages and they were good. When I press the diagnostic button on the sound board, I can JUST barely hear the audio with the volume pot cranked up all the way and my ear right next to the speaker. The Blackout sound board works fine so it's not the volume pot/speaker. I figured the TDA2002 was bad so I replaced that with a new one and I'm getting the same thing. Went thru and tested resistors in the speaker/volume section of the sound board and everything looked good.

What else should I be looking at that would cause there to be no audio amplification? Would a bad IC13 (1408 D/A converter) cause this?

#2 6 years ago

C12 (1uf 50V) had high ESR so I replaced that but no change.

#3 6 years ago

Also replaced C29 (10uv 25v) even tho it tested ok with my ESR meter but still no change.

#4 6 years ago

I had an issue on my Alien Poker which I think uses a similar system 6 sound board, where sometimes the volume would go almost to zero and you could barely hear it, and other times it was fine. In my case I fixed it by reflowing solder on the 4 pin connector near the top center of the sound board. A long shot but maybe worth checking.

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from debaser:

What else should I be looking at that would cause there to be no audio amplification? Would a bad IC13 (1408 D/A converter) cause this?

Possible, but first replace the transistor connected at the 1408 DAC output. The transistor is sourcing the DAC's current output and sometimes fails.

Marco

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

Possible, but first replace the transistor connected at the 1408 DAC output. The transistor is sourcing the DAC's current output and sometimes fails.
Marco

I tested that 2N4401 with my DMM and it tested good but I replaced it anyways. No change.

What's the likelihood that it's the 1408 at this point? I don't have any so I'll have to order some.

#7 6 years ago

I have never had a DAC chip fail as low volume. They seem to be all or nothing in my XP.

DAC0808 work in place of the MC1408 too.

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dac0808.pdf

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

I have never had a DAC chip fail as low volume. They seem to be all or nothing in my XP.
DAC0808 work in place of the MC1408 too.
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dac0808.pdf

It doesn't seem like a bad 1408 would cause low volume but I just don't know what else it would be. I've replaced two of the caps in that circuit (only 1 had high ESR) and checked all the resistors as well. I even went thru tonight and checked for a bad trace but everything looks good. From the few things I've found with other people experiencing low volume, it was caused by bad header pins, a bad TDA2002 or a bad C29 or C12. All that has been addressed on this board.

I'm at a loss for what else would be causing this.

#9 6 years ago

I guarantee it’s not the DAC.
Electrolytic Caps are always suspect.

Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

I guarantee it’s not the DAC.
Electrolytic Caps are always suspect.

Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

I replaced the 1 bad cap I found. The others test fine with my ESR meter.

2 weeks later
#11 6 years ago

Finally getting back to this. I replaced all the caps to make sure that wasn't the issue (didn't think it was as the rest of them checked fine with my ESR meter) but that still didn't fix it. Using my logic probe, I'm seeing no activity on pins 1 and 2 of the TDA2002. I was getting a weird reading on R25 (3.3M). In one direction it reads fine but if I swap the leads it reads -1.5M. I replaced Q2 (2N4401) in that circuit as well. Would a bad C28 (47pfd 1Kv) cause low volume?

At this point I'm not sure what else to look at. Any ideas?

2 months later
#12 5 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

I guarantee it’s not the DAC.
Electrolytic Caps are always suspect.

Sorry to say Chris but you were wrong on this one. I finally got back around to working on this sound board. Using my logic probe I compared the signals with my working board on the MC1408 and I discovered that pin 14 was high (low on the working board) and pin 16 showed nothing (low signal on the working board).

I pulled the MC1408 off my working board and now I've got normal volume again. Problem solved.

4 weeks later
#13 5 years ago
Quoted from debaser:

... I discovered that
- pin 14 was high (low on the working board)
- pin 16 showed nothing (low signal on the working board).
I pulled the MC1408 off my working board and now I've got normal volume again. Problem solved.

This information about the L state on the two pins helped me a lot!!!! ...
I had the same problem, and was not sure if the mc1408 could be the problem....
But after reading the above, I discovered that my pins 14&16 had the same wrong state!
And after replacing the original mc1408 with an dac0808 (compatible replacement) sound is back!

(In my case on a Williams Space Shuttle Sytem9 board)

Thanks a lot again!!!!

2 weeks later
#14 5 years ago
Quoted from OlliG:

This information about the L state on the two pins helped me a lot!!!! ...
I had the same problem, and was not sure if the mc1408 could be the problem....
But after reading the above, I discovered that my pins 14&16 had the same wrong state!
And after replacing the original mc1408 with an dac0808 (compatible replacement) sound is back!
(In my case on a Williams Space Shuttle Sytem9 board)
Thanks a lot again!!!!

That's awesome! Glad to hear my repair helped someone else out.

2 years later
#15 2 years ago
Quoted from debaser:

Sorry to say Chris but you were wrong on this one. I finally got back around to working on this sound board. Using my logic probe I compared the signals with my working board on the MC1408 and I discovered that pin 14 was high (low on the working board) and pin 16 showed nothing (low signal on the working board).
I pulled the MC1408 off my working board and now I've got normal volume again. Problem solved.

I know this is an old thread, but did you test this chip in attract mode or do I need to start a game? Mine has very low volume but I can still hear it. Going to check this next.

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