(Topic ID: 233137)

williams system 4 briefly firing all controlled coils at power up

By creepykenny

5 years ago


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    #6 5 years ago
    Quoted from creepykenny:

    thanks! i have done that, the blanking signal (high) is present on the driver board - monitoring pin 37 of the interconnect with a logic probe shows on power up signal transitions from zero/nil straight to a steady high - no low signal is present on the driver board
    the coils are firing before the high signal appears - while there is no signal being sent from the MPU, so am i missing a constant low on the blanking line that should be present when power is turned on before MPU boots?
    i feel like i am, and with out the low signal the coils are firing .. since if i understand how it works a low signal on the blanking line prevents the coils from firing?
    i could easily be wrong tho

    This could very well be a case of the indeterminate nature of inputs not turning on in a known state - (like the Gottlieb system 80 thunk on powerup, or WPC thunk on turnon)

    There's always going to be this type of state on power up until the power is stabilized, unless some kind of separate reset timing type circuit is added (as in, no power to the coils until the power is stable.... something along those lines).

    FWIW a couple of my system 4-6 games do this as well. I'm kind of used to it.

    #11 5 years ago
    Quoted from creepykenny:

    i do have a spare 556 so a swap is not a problem and thats what i will probably do just to see if it is at fault, without pulling it and putting it in a tester i don't know how to verify its out puts when its used on this board so theres that.
    as for the power up state ... well this is what i am really asking, is there a (or is there supposed to be a) low signal present upon power up on the blanking line and what generates it? the 556? it would have to be instant low to effect blanking the coils before the mpu boots and changes its state to high
    maybe its the nature of the system 3-6, haven't seen other posts about this "issue" but my googlefoo kinds sucks

    Nothing generates the low signal. You can't have control over a semiconductor until the voltage is up and stable. Unless there is something in there like a reset/supervisor IC that specifically blocks the output path, the power up is going to create an unknown state until it is stable enough to exert control.

    They just didn't think it was a big enough deal way back when - it's relatively harmless because it's so short. There could probably be some kind of adapter made to go onto the solenoid grounds that has a separate power on just like was done for the AMP on the WPC era machines.

    How much of a thunk are you getting - it should be VERY short.

    The main purpose of blanking is to actually blank the displays during display refresh (that's why it's called 'blanking'.....) - as a nice side note, it's also supposed to safe the lamp and solenoid matrix in the case of interrupts being missed (Generated by 555/556 timer on system 3-7) - in practice, it does not always do this. There is not a separate watchdog circuit that would be the correct way of doing this.

    You could have an error on a machine where the software is not running in its proper state, but the interrupts will still plug away happily. For instance, good OS rom but bad game rom. Wms doesn't checksum at bootup, only when you press test button.

    #13 5 years ago

    I'm thinking Bally world then - I thought the blanking worked the same way on williams. There is a blanking signal going to the display board but obviously, it's just for watchdog and not actually performing the blanking.

    For the OP, had a thought - are the board grounded with all the screws present? If your ground was floating slightly on your transistors that could certainly cause some issues.

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