(Topic ID: 230669)

Williams system 11 special solenoid issue

By Clizifer

3 years ago


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  • 27 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by GRUMPY
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#1 3 years ago

hey all, new to the forum but have been collecting pins for quite a few years now. anyways i just purchased a williams high speed pinball machine. have always loved this machine since i was a kid and finally pumped to own it. its currently only partially working tho, the 3 pop bumpers at the top and the 2 lower slingshots are not functioning. visual inspection i found a fuse blown in the backbox, the 2.5a special solenoid fuse. i replaced it and turned it on, the top left pop bumper coil pulled in and the fuse immediately proceeded to get hot and blow. curious what the issue could be? does the pop bumper coil need to be replaced? any help is appreciated. thanks

#2 3 years ago

The coil won’t of been the cause but could of been overheated ar some point but its not the reason it is locking on now. It’s being energized immediately so you may have a switch that’s out of adjustment, or a transistor that’s shorted. I’d check those first. As for the coil it would be worth checking the resistance and seeing if the coil sleeve is still easy to remove. But just replacing the coil will not fix the problem.

#3 3 years ago

At a bare minimum you will need to replace the diode on the coil and Q-77 and Q-76. You will also need to check the switch gap, coil resistance, coil sleeve and skirt/spoon movement.

#4 3 years ago

ok then i should also add that when i turn the machine on it says adjust switch 23 right bank yellow. any idea what im looking for here? im assuming a yellow wire on the right bank? is this on the playfield or somewhere in the back box? all of the yellow wires on the playfield seem to be for lighting

#5 3 years ago

The yellow switch of the red green and yellow stoplights on the right bank of them. Literally switch 23 from the manual game is being very helpful!

#6 3 years ago

ok awesome, i found it. the diode wasnt making contact onto the middle pin of the switch. just fixed that and im not getting the error anymore. still having the issue with the solenoids tho

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

ok then i should also add that when i turn the machine on it says adjust switch 23 right bank yellow. any idea what im looking for here? im assuming a yellow wire on the right bank? is this on the playfield or somewhere in the back box? all of the yellow wires on the playfield seem to be for lighting

Do you have a manual? If not you can download one.

https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?gid=1176

Look at page 32. It will show you the switches and there locations. Now that you know where the switch is, look under the P/F for a broken wire or an open diode.

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

still having the issue with the solenoids tho

For now you need to cut one of the wires from the coil and insulate it, replace the fuse. The game will function until your ready to repair it.

#9 3 years ago

ok so let me get this straight. if i cut one of the wires from the solenoid that locks up and replace the fuse the game will function all except for the one pop bumper? and if i replace those 2 transistors i should be able to reconnect it and be fully functioning?

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

if i cut one of the wires from the solenoid that locks up and replace the fuse the game will function all except for the one pop bumper?

Yes, cut the single wire on the coil and place a piece of electrical tape on the end of the wire.

Quoted from Clizifer:

and if i replace those 2 transistors i should be able to reconnect it and be fully functioning?

Maybe, if you replace the 3 parts I said then you will be ready to test it to see if it is ready to reconnect the wire.

#11 3 years ago

ok i did it and the game is functioning all except the one pop bumper and it seems some of the flashers arent working either. but it is playable. where would i find the replacement transistors? and how would i check the coil itself? the kickback coil seems to be weak if it works at all. anyway to test it or should it just be replaced?

#12 3 years ago

Coils either work or they don’t. When they’re weak it’s usually mechanical or voltage related, but rarely the coil itself.

As for testing the coil in question that is shorted, get a multimeter and set it to resistance (ohms). If it’s 0 or near zero it infinite it’s bad. Compare it to working coils to get a ballpark.

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

where would i find the replacement transistors?

In no particular order,
Marcos Spec.
Great Plains Electronics
Tayda
Ebay

Quoted from Clizifer:

it seems some of the flashers arent working either.

Flash blubs are 7 volt #63 bulbs, since they are 7 volts they are 2 bulbs run in series. This means that if one bulb were to burn out neither bulb will work. You can install #89 12 volt bulbs in place of the #63 bulbs. This will make them last 4 times longer.

Quoted from Clizifer:

and how would i check the coil itself?

The manual will show this coil as a 23-800. There is a chart for telling what resistance each coil should be.

https://www.flippers.com/coil-resistance.html

When looking at the chart for this coil it shows 4.2 ohms. Cut one side of the diode off and then test with a DMM set the ohms.

Quoted from Clizifer:

the kickback coil seems to be weak if it works at all

There is a switch under the P/F that turns this coil on by way of snubber relay. Clean the switch contacts with a new dollar bill. Then adjust the switch contacts and test by rolling a ball across the wireform on the top of the P/F. Replacing the coil sleeve will help reduce friction and gain back some lost power.

#14 3 years ago

ok so i was able to go through all the bulb and flasher test and fix all the burnt out bulbs. i then went through the coil test and was able to get all but the one disconnected pop bumper working. turns out there was a loose connection on the kick back coil. at this point the game is working a lot better than when i started, my only 2 issues now are the one pop bumper and i have one display that is dead.

how do i find out what the number of the transistor is? i have located them both on the main board but im having trouble cross referencing the number on the transistor itself to the ones they sell at marco. lastly where would one be able to find replacement displays for this machine? i bought some a few years back for one of my older em bally machines, it was a diy kit that you solder together yourself. would love to find the same thing for this williams machine

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

how do i find out what the number of the transistor is

In the manual, page #52 shows the parts # that you need. 2N4401, Tip122 and for the coil diode 1n4003.
Now for the TIP 122 I use a TIP102 as they are 60% stronger. And for the coil diode I use 1n4007 diodes for any diode that has a 1n400x number.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/2N4401

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/TIP102

Now for the display you need to move it to a working spot to see if it dead or if the cable is bad. The top displays are different then the bottom displays so you can only more them left and right, not up and down. If it's dead after moving it to a known working spot then remove it and reflow the solder pins on the backside. Then retest it.

#16 3 years ago

ok awesome. those parts are very cheap, so im guessing my best bet is to replace them and then see if it fixes the issue? i tried swapping the display and it is definitely dead, tried reheating the solders and no difference. i think i might just buy the replacement upgraded pinscore ones from marco with my electrical components

#17 3 years ago

Depending on whether its the top or bottom display.

http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/displays/7%20Digit%20Numeric-2.jpg

http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/displays/7%20Digit%20Alpha-2.jpg

Quoted from Clizifer:

my best bet is to replace them and then see if it fixes the issue?

Replace, but then test without connecting the coil. If the coil locks on again it will ruin all the new parts you just installed. The board can only handle replacing these parts some many times before its ruined.

1 week later
#18 2 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Depending on whether its the top or bottom display.
http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/displays/7%20Digit%20Numeric-2.jpg
http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/displays/7%20Digit%20Alpha-2.jpg

Replace, but then test without connecting the coil. If the coil locks on again it will ruin all the new parts you just installed. The board can only handle replacing these parts some many times before its ruined.

ok so i finally got the parts in and i have swapped out the 2 transistors, i put the board back in and tried the game and it still works the same. im going to change the diode on the pop bumper coil and solder it back into the circuit and test. is there anything i should do before this?

#19 2 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Replace, but then test without connecting the coil. If the coil locks on again it will ruin all the new parts you just installed. The board can only handle replacing these parts some many times before its ruined.

You need to test with the coil disconnected.

#20 2 years ago

how can i do that? like i said after i changed the transistors i turned the game on and it functions as before. still have the coil disconnected. should i re connect it?

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

i put the board back in and tried the game and it still works the same.

How do you know its still the same if you didn't connect the coil? The best way to check this is with a voltmeter. Set it to ohms and with the power turned on to the game, check the resistance from ground to the metal tab of the transistor in question. A low reading means the transistor is conducting and further testing is required.

#22 2 years ago

ok, i just tested the resistance and it is very high, does that mean im good to reconnect the pop bumper?

#23 2 years ago

Last thing to check is the pop bumper activation switch, it needs to open @ 1/16 of an inch. If this is good then turn on the machine, remove the balls and lift the playfield. Then take the wire for the pop coil and lightly touch it to the coil. If it doesn't activate now then lower the P/F and replace the balls and start a game. Then remove the balls again and lift the P/F and touch the wire pop coil again, if it doesn't activate then you are ready to solder the wire back on and test again by playing a game.

#24 2 years ago

ok, i tapped the wire and it didnt activate, i think im ready to put it back together. decided to rebuild the pop bumpers as most of the plastics are very brittle and cracking. ill report back when i get it all together. thanks for all your help

#25 2 years ago
Quoted from Clizifer:

decided to rebuild the pop bumpers as most of the plastics are very brittle and cracking.

Always a good idea, nothing better than snappy pops.

#26 2 years ago

just finished rebuilding my pop bumpers and got it all back together and everything is working as it should. pumped to play some games! thanks again for all your help

#27 2 years ago

Playball!

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