(Topic ID: 68323)

Williams System 11 Bullet-proofing Thread

By Schwaggs

10 years ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Inkochnito
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There are 140 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
11
#1 10 years ago

I recently picked up a F-14 and have started going though it to bullet proof it using many of the things I learned from Vid's System 3-7 thread. Here is what I have done so far:

1) Checked all fuses in the machine to ensure they were the correct value. Everyone should do this first thing when getting any "new" machine.

2) Replace the capacitors on all the boards and playfield (sling and pop bumper switch caps). System 11 games are 25+ years old which means many of the electrolytic caps are no good any longer. GPE has all the capacitors you need for this at a great price.

3) Re-build the snubber boards (if your machine has them) under the playfield with new capacitors and 2 watt 150 ohm resistors installed raised off the boards a 1/8 inch. Re-flow remaining through hole pins on the relay and diodes.

4) Re-build the high voltage section of the power supply and reduced the voltage to 91V to preserve the displays. GPE has a complete kit of parts for a few bucks http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=WAN-HVP-KIT Vid's instructions are for System 3-6 but the high voltage power supply in System 11 use the same parts. See Vid's instructions here: http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-bulletproofing-williams-system-6/page/2#post-957591

5) Replace the battery pack with a 3 F capacitor (cheap ones available on eBay) to backup the memory with a capacitor instead of batteries. I like this solution over installing a remote battery holder to protect your CPU board from battery acid damage. Simply solder a couple short pieces of wire to the capacitor leads and connect the + lead on the capacitor to the lower left battery holder hole (+ sign next to it) and the - lead to the upper right - hole. Use a small piece of double sided foam tape to secure the capacitor to the CPU board. On System 11 boards, you need to either remove and install jumper in place of D2 or solder a jumper wire across it to enable charging of the capacitor. Leave the machine on for several hours to fully charge the capacitor but once it is charged, it will only take 30 minutes a month of "on" time to keep the capacitor charged.

6) Replaced the TIP 42 lamp matrix transistors with IRF9Z34 ($1 each from GPE http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/search.asp?pg=1&stext=IRF9Z34&sprice=&stype=&scat=). This reduced the temperature of the 27 ohm resistors in half (from 195 - 220 degrees to 90-100 degrees) and the transistors themselves run about 30 degrees cooler. This will eliminate quite a bit of heat from the backbox and greatly improve the longevity of components in that area. No need to replace the transistors in the other half of the lamp matrix with MOSFETs (like we do on System 3-7 boards) as Williams already updated to a more efficient design with a single TIP122 transistor that does not need wasteful bias resistors.

7) Add fuses between the transformer and bridge rectifier screwed to the backbox. See Vid's post here for instructions: http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-bulletproofing-williams-system-6/page/2#post-945742

8 ) Re-flow header pins on Power Supply, relay boards, etc. Replace power supply molex pins and wire connectors especially if they show signs of getting warm (yellowing plastic, etc).

9) Replace Molex pins on boards (CPU. sound, display, etc) and Molex connectors on cables. Replace CPU-sound board and CPU-display board ribbon cables.

10) Replace flash bulb warming and current limiting resistors. Make sure to leave an air gap between the resistors and the boards as these resistors get HOT!

11) Replace CPU board resistor packs: See Wayout440's post below for more information http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-system-11-bullet-proofing-thread#post-1211865

Please feel free to add your bullet proofing ideas to this thread!

#2 10 years ago

Ill chime in,
Solder joints, reflow joints to headers-male on the PS board and filter board if u have one, notorious for going cold, look for concentric circles on the joint. Also reflow the joints on the under PF and backbox relay boards, see GI below for why..
GI - WMS had a bad design to this, likely the connectors male and female have tarnished and need new, it develops heat and resistance to the pins (think of kinking a hose), this is cheap and easy. Often resistance can actually get the pins hot enough to desolder from the board at times...LEDs are a good idea to keep this stress off that 6.3v line.

#3 10 years ago

It's more expensive, but I plan to replace the ram with nvRAM.

#4 10 years ago

Don't forget to add fuses to the lamp and solenoid bridges in back as well. As these games are older as much as it sucks spend a couple hours and replace ALL molex female plugs on cpu board. Ive started to see these fail on home service calls. Ive seen lamp columns rows drop out and switch lines too due to marginal female plugs on these games. Replace ribbon from snd to cpu as well as display to cpu . All inexpensive.

#5 10 years ago

Replace aged flashlamp cement resistors, make sure there is air space around them to dissipate heat. I also add a couple of tie wraps to secure them from vibration (I like to nudge!)

A common failure on these System 11s are the resistor packs. If the game is aged and you have the CPU board out you may as well replace the following for long term reliability of the switch interpretation:

SR9/SR10* = 1k ohms x 4 resistors isolated/discrete (8 pins). Used for the switch returns (rows). Mouser part# 652-4608X-102-1K. Easy to test in-circuit.
SR11* = 560 ohm x 9 resistors bussed (10 pins). Used for the switch returns (rows). Mouser part# 652-4310R-101-560. Easy to test in-circuit.
SR3/SR15/SR17* = 4.7k ohms x 9 resistors bussed (10 pins). Used for the switch drives (columns). Mouser part# 652-4310R-101-472.
SRC6* (1k/470 pfd) = resistor/capacitor network for switch matrix columns. Has 1k ohm resistors with 470 pF caps in a single package. Can not be tested in-circuit. Replace with a 1k ohm x 9 resistor bussed (10 pins) with no capacitors. Cut off pin 10 (important!), and install pin 1 (common) in pin 1 of the board. The cut pin 10 of the resistor network does not go into the board's pin 10 position. See notes below for more info on this. Mouser part# 652-4610X-1LF-1K.

#6 10 years ago

Thanks for the great additions guys, I have added them to the list in the first post along to links to the posts in Vid's guide for each.

#7 10 years ago

Great information ,I'd like to get a sys 11 game someday.(Cyclone or
Bad Cats) I learn a lot from this site .

#8 10 years ago

More info on the resistor packs for System 11 games can be found here: http://illinoispinball.webs.com/williamssys911part3.htm

#9 10 years ago

Does anyone have a long-term solution for fixing the GI issues that System 11s seem to always have? It seems like it takes them about 10 to 15 years to smoke the molex connector.

#10 10 years ago
Quoted from Finrod:

Does anyone have a long-term solution for fixing the GI issues that System 11s seem to always have? It seems like it takes them about 10 to 15 years to smoke the molex connector.

Switch to LED's

#11 10 years ago
Quoted from Finrod:

Does anyone have a long-term solution for fixing the GI issues that System 11s seem to always have? It seems like it takes them about 10 to 15 years to smoke the molex connector.

More like 10 months.

#12 10 years ago

The GI Molex connectors look great on my machine. When you replace these, are you guys replacing the pins on the board as well as the pins in the socket and they still only last months instead of years?

#13 10 years ago

I exaggerate with 10 months in home use, but if left on 16 hours a day in a bar, yes, 10 months and they might be burnt again.

If you switch to LEDs the current will be so much less that the connector will never discolor or burn.

#14 10 years ago
Quoted from Finrod:

Does anyone have a long-term solution for fixing the GI issues that System 11s seem to always have? It seems like it takes them about 10 to 15 years to smoke the molex connector.

New male pin headers and connectors with trifurcon connectors properly crimped in place.
Sub some LED's for the GI for less current draw / heat or #44 ~ #47 bulbs.

The interconnect board could benefit the most from some TLC. I replaced all the cement resistors on my Whirlwind and left ample space off the board for better air flow and cooling.

Look at the new resistors.JPGLook at the new resistors.JPG

4 months later
#15 10 years ago
Quoted from cal50:

New male pin headers and connectors with trifurcon connectors properly crimped in place.
Sub some LED's for the GI for less current draw / heat or #44 ~ #47 bulbs.
The interconnect board could benefit the most from some TLC. I replaced all the cement resistors on my Whirlwind and left ample space off the board for better air flow and cooling.

Look at the new resistors.JPG 3.7 MB

I am in the process of ordering new cement resistors for my High Speed. Please correct me if I am wrong, but are the eight resistors on right side of this picture wrong. I believe they are supposed to be "0.4 ohm" not "4 ohm", as in the picture in the above post. Please advice so I can order the correct ones.
Thanks

#16 10 years ago
Quoted from highspeed:

I am in the process of ordering new cement resistors for my High Speed. Please correct me if I am wrong, but are the eight resistors on right side of this picture wrong. I believe they are supposed to be "0.4 ohm" not "4 ohm", as in the picture in the above post. Please advice so I can order the correct ones.
Thanks

According to 2 High speed MPU's and the Whirlwind Manual and the High Speed Manual .. You are correct ? But Cal50 is wise and might know something we dont?

12
#17 10 years ago

I might suggest that people who cannot solder and desolder might benefit by *not* bulletproofing their boards. Having fixed many of these, I've seen only a few cement resistor problems, and the only thing I've seen damage the resistor packs is corrosion.

If you don't know what you're doing, leave your soldering iron unplugged, and enjoy your game until something breaks. You could likely cause more damage by fiddling with something you shouldn't be fiddling with!

#18 10 years ago

Agree. The only "bullet proof" to the boards in the backbox I would suggest would be replacing the caps on the power board, popping in two fuses around the bridge rectifiers if they don't currently have any, and swapping the zener diodes to reduce the display voltage from 100 to 91 volts to extend the life of your plasma's, repinning/socketing any darkened GI connectors, and of course remove the battery pack from the board (All for about $20 shipped from GPE). All the rest - stay away until something happens.

#19 10 years ago

Also agree. I would have to say that the late system 11 pins (11B and 11C) are very solid boardsets with very little preventative maintenance required

Checking for correct fuse values is important. Adding 2 fuse holders to the bridges is probably a good idea but I have never seen a damaged harness/transformer from bad bridges here. I've just seen it blow the line fuse on the other side of the transformer.

Battery Holder and GI connectors are not preventative maintenance but rather repairs to already damaged components. Reflowing the solder points on the flashlamp resistors on the interconnect board is very common.

#20 10 years ago

I have repaired 2 or 3 sys11 games with shorted bridges. It is NOT fun with the playfield in the cabinet. It's a required mod in my shop now.

#21 10 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

I have repaired 2 or 3 sys11 games with shorted bridges. It is NOT fun with the playfield in the cabinet. It's a required mod in my shop now.

Does it melt the secondary wiring from the Transformer for the 18V circuit?

#22 10 years ago

Each time, it has melted the red wire between the xformer and the bridge. I've had to replace the whole run of the red wire, and in one game, the wire melted and fused itself to another wire, so I had to replace 2 wires.I would need to look at the manual to determine which ones the red ones were for sure.

#23 10 years ago

Red wires are the 25V solenoid voltage.
Blue wires are the 18V for the controlled lamps.

Guess I have lucked out. I have replaced the lamp bridge 2-3 times and the symptom was a blown main fuse but don't think I have seen a bad coil bridge.

#24 10 years ago
Quoted from kbliznick:

Also agree. I would have to say that the late system 11 pins (11B and 11C) are very solid boardsets with very little preventative maintenance required
Checking for correct fuse values is important. Adding 2 fuse holders to the bridges is probably a good idea but I have never seen a damaged harness/transformer from bad bridges here. I've just seen it blow the line fuse on the other side of the transformer.
Battery Holder and GI connectors are not preventative maintenance but rather repairs to already damaged components. Reflowing the solder points on the flashlamp resistors on the interconnect board is very common.

+1. A lot of the bulletproofing is IMO - a bit over the top. Critical filter caps should be changed for certain. Every cap in the game, not really necessary. The fuses before the bridges, more of a better safe than sorry thing...there's a small potential to burn your house down under the right conditions. Similar to seeing the ground pin cut on a game, which may have run forever and shocked nobody...replace it with a proper 3 pin cable to prevent the small possibility of electrocution. Don't skimp on the improvements to make the game safe.

Some real System 11 bulletproofing not yet mentioned: Just replace the power supply board with a new Rottendog or PinScore power supply...which will likely outlast the rest of the game.

#25 10 years ago

Agreed that all the items listed here are not critical but many of them will improve the survivability of the game.

Update on the capacitor I used to backup the memory as opposed to a remote battery holder. The 1.5F cap only provided about 7 to 10 days of backup. On my System 6 machines, it provides 2+ weeks. I replaced it with a 3F cap from eBay and am getting 2+ weeks of memory backup.

#26 10 years ago

I took some real world measurements between my three System 11 games and came up with a little more of a detailed test point list. I took measurements between all my games and mostly averaged them out or created an approximate range. This may not be perfect, and maybe will need fine tuning and more samples to become refined. I think of it as a reasonable starting point that could be useful, and perhaps expanded.

*** Williams System 11 Power measurements and test points ***

Logic power
MPU IJ17 Pins 4,5,6 = +5.03 VDC @8.1 mV AC ripple
U26/U27 ROM Pin 1 = +4.91 VDC

Audio power
MPU IJ17 Pin 9 = -14.04 VDC (Unregulated)
MPU IJ17 Pin 8 = +12.02 VDC (Unregulated)
Audio board U11 (U17 on Sys11B) Pin 8 -13.9 VDC @250 mV AC ripple
Audio board U11 (U17 on Sys11B) Pin 4 +11.8 VDC @50 mV AC ripple

Controlled lamp power
PS 3J4 pins 5,6,7,8 (Sys11A) or backbox bridge 6BR1 (Sys11B)= +15VDC to +18VDC nominal.

General illumination power
PSU 3J8 (Sys11A) or Interconnect board output 2P7 (Sys11B) = 4.5 VAC to 6.3 VAC nominal

Display power
3J5 pin 3 (Sys11A) or 3J2 pin 3 (Sys11B) = +90 to +110VDC nominal
3J5 pin 4 (Sys11A) or 3J2 pin 1 (Sys11B) = -90 to -110VDC nominal

Flipper power
Game specific@flipper supply board outputs= +65 to +75 VDC nominal

Solenoid power
PS 3J3 pins 6,7,8 (Sys11A) +32 to +35 VDC
Interconnect board F1/F3 (Sys11B) +41 VDC
Interconnect board F4 (Sys11B) +75VDC

NOTES
Reference test games used:
Williams Pinbot - System 11A/D-8345-549 PS
Williams F-14 Tomcat - System 11A/Rottendog WDP-011A PS
Williams Taxi - System 11B/PinScore PJ-12246 Rev. B PS

8 months later
#27 9 years ago

Anyone have any answer to the question about the resistors on the MPU that was asked earlier in this thread?

"I am in the process of ordering new cement resistors for my High Speed. Please correct me if I am wrong, but are the eight resistors on right side of this picture wrong. I believe they are supposed to be "0.4 ohm" not "4 ohm", as in the picture in the above post. Please advice so I can order the correct ones. Thanks"

In my High Speed the resistors are marked with .4ohm as well.. I know its possible to replace them with a bit higher watts but the ohms are more important to get right. Is it just a mismarking on the resistors in the pic that cal50 posted?

gonna replace mine too thats why I ask..

/ Andy

#28 9 years ago

I just checked the schematics I have for F14 and they show .4 ohm 3W resistors on the lamp return circuit.

27 ohm 2 watt on the strobe side of the circuit.

#29 9 years ago

Hm.. yes that .4 ohm seem to be working since i also have it in my HS. Guess I dont have to over think it and get some new .4 ohm resistors. Would be interesting to know why its 4 ohm in the pic above though.. its a pretty big difference after all.

#30 9 years ago

I've been finding axial leaded electrolytic capacitor C30 (22uf @ 16v) located next to the battery holder going bad (open circuit). This capacitor is in the corrosion zone too.

The three 100 uf electrolytics all grouped together have been going off value and should be replaced.

#31 9 years ago
Quoted from kbliznick:

Red wires are the 25V solenoid voltage.
Blue wires are the 18V for the controlled lamps.
Guess I have lucked out. I have replaced the lamp bridge 2-3 times and the symptom was a blown main fuse but don't think I have seen a bad coil bridge.

I repaired a PinBot a few years ago with one of the bridges shorted. This was the result....

IMG_1488.jpgIMG_1488.jpg
IMG_1491.jpgIMG_1491.jpg

#32 9 years ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

I repaired a PinBot a few years ago with one of the bridges shorted. This was the result....

IMG_1488.jpg 41 KB

IMG_1491.jpg 76 KB

I just put Fuses on my F14, pinbot and black knight to protect the wiring should the rectifiers short out. Peace of mind for a few bucks is worth it.

#33 9 years ago

MarAlb, that looks very bad! Can that be avoided by putting fuses before the bridges on the AC in? I did that in my HS and I hope I wont see whats in your pics

#34 9 years ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

I repaired a PinBot a few years ago with one of the bridges shorted. This was the result....

WOW! This is the "poster child" picture for adding fuses to this circuit for all Williams systems without protection on this circuit!

#35 9 years ago

Is there a thread or link that shows exactly where to do the fuse mod for the bridge rectifier? Questions I would have is ----
1. How many places (wires) do you add a fuse too?
2. What amp rating do we fuse at?
3. Close, detailed pic of completed mod would be great.

#36 9 years ago

I have used inkochnitos bridge board for this. Puts in the fuses as well as replaces the rectifiers and the big cap in 1 package.

#37 9 years ago
Quoted from dozer1:

Is there a thread or link that shows exactly where to do the fuse mod for the bridge rectifier? Questions I would have is ----
1. How many places (wires) do you add a fuse too?
2. What amp rating do we fuse at?
3. Close, detailed pic of completed mod would be great.

The Pinwiki illustrates exactly how to do this.

#38 9 years ago

Bridge Rectifier Fuses A design flaw carried over from the earlier systems was the lack of fuses on the two bridge rectifiers used for the solenoid and lamp power. In theory, if either of these bridges short, the main power fuse in the game will blow, but that's not always the case. On games before Fire, interrupt one of the AC input lines and install a fuse holder with an 8 amp fuse installed. Games made after Fire already have a factory installed fuse holder and fuse on these bridges.

Hmmm, so if I understand this correctly, this only pertains to the 8 system 11 games made before Fire, and possibly Fire itself. (that part wasn't clear)
Got more reading to do...Thanks

#39 9 years ago
Quoted from thedefog:

The Pinwiki illustrates exactly how to do this.

Or you could just look at this thread; https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-bulletproofing-williams-system-6/page/2#post-945742

#40 9 years ago

I've bought one of Peter's boards. Nice and tidy to install, and replaces that big old capacitor in the backbox too

http://home.kpn.nl/p.koch3/bridge_board.htm

#41 9 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

I have used inkochnitos bridge board for this. Puts in the fuses as well as replaces the rectifiers and the big cap in 1 package.

And takes up considerably LESS space than the original setup so your backbox is less cluttered up!

Highly recommend buying Peter's rectifier/fuse/capacitor boards.

#42 9 years ago
Quoted from Snux:

I've bought one of Peter's boards. Nice and tidy to install, and replaces that big old capacitor in the backbox too
http://home.kpn.nl/p.koch3/bridge_board.htm

How much is that little PCB? I don't see any way to order it.

#43 9 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

How much is that little PCB? I don't see any way to order it.

$49 http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com

#44 9 years ago

Here, to be precise :

http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/boards/boards-index.htm#bridgeboard

With my F14 project, I was going to install the missing fuses and then replace the big capacitor and rectifiers as they're the originals from the 1980s. Found Peter's board that takes less space and does the job of all of them. Plus you get 2 little LEDs - who doesn't like extra LEDs in the backbox

1 month later
#45 9 years ago

Im trying to do the High Voltage rebuild on my space station's Power Supply, Im not certain about the location of the resistors that should be replaced, can someone please point me there?

I did replace the diodes to the 91v, that are close to the transistors...

Thanks Guys

IMG_9051.JPGIMG_9051.JPG
#46 9 years ago

Don't forget to replace the 12-pin wafer connector on that power supply - it's burnt.

The resistors in the kit should match up with the schematic or the board parts diagram? Which ones do you have questions on?

#47 9 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

Don't forget to replace the 12-pin wafer connector on that power supply - it's burnt.
The resistors in the kit should match up with the schematic or the board parts diagram? Which ones do you have questions on?

Where can you buy that wafer? Link?

#49 9 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

Don't forget to replace the 12-pin wafer connector on that power supply - it's burnt.
The resistors in the kit should match up with the schematic or the board parts diagram? Which ones do you have questions on?

I'm trying to do the upgrade from the first post, but mine is different than the system 7-9:

4) Re-build the high voltage section of the power supply and reduced the voltage to 91V to preserve the displays. GPE has a complete kit of parts for a few bucks http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=WAN-HVP-KIT Vid's instructions are for System 3-6 but the high voltage power supply in System 11 use the same parts. See Vid's instructions here: http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-bulletproofing-williams-system-6/page/2#post-957591

It may use the same parts, but the layout is different.

3 months later
#50 8 years ago

will need to do this at some point

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