(Topic ID: 124004)

Williams Swinger Restoration and (Eventual) Retheme


By RyanClaytor

4 years ago



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#151 3 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

Just out of curiosity, where/how/what would you suggest I sand?

Twas a joke. What I meant was to sand it out of existence because it is very good at making you drain your ball! LOL

#152 3 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

Twas a joke. What I meant was to sand it out of existence because it is very good at making you drain your ball! LOL

overHead.gif

Woopsies!!!

#153 3 years ago
Quoted from OuterDork:

The game is looking fantastic.

Many thanks, Andy. It's gettin' there. Slowly but surely.

The time I have to work on it is pretty limited, but I'm enjoying the journey and trying not to be too final-goal-focused at this point of the process. I'm confident I'll complete it. For now, I'm just pokin' around on it a little bit each day or so.

Quoted from OuterDork:

Thanks for pointing me to this forum, these threads, and helping me get back into pinball in general.

Happy to be a pinball pusher. It's a pretty great hobby. This thread and all the help I've received on this project alone is proof of that!

#154 3 years ago

Good evening, Swingers!

IMG_7581.JPG

Yesterday, I tackled the next portion of the playfield cleaning. This time I tidied-up from about the swinging target, up to around the "Advance Swing Reel" saucer. Here's what it looked like before (pardon the blurry 'before' shot, but hopefully you can see a healthy amount of ground-in dirt around the pops as well as posts, rubbers, and side rails):

photo 3.JPG

Here's the after shot of the same area with a lot of that aforementioned stuff cleaned up.

IMG_7580.JPG

Not the best comparison shot, I understand, so here are a couple of close-up comparisons.

Before:

IMG_7562.JPG

After:

IMG_7578.JPG

Before:

IMG_7559.JPG

After:

IMG_7579.JPG

My son helped me again yesterday, but I didn't get any shots of him that session. NEXT TIME!

#155 3 years ago

Today, I managed to do some more work on the playfield cleaning, this time on the top and final portion, the ball arch area. In fact, this post marks the end of the top-side playfield cleaning. Here's what it looked like before:

IMG_7583.JPG

...and here's what it looked like after the usual...

1) hand-cleaner with clean rag
2) magic eraser with 91% isopropyl alcohol
3) 91% isopropyl alcohol on clean rag to finish

...regimen:
IMG_7600.JPG

And, of course, the glammy close-up shots.

Before:

IMG_7582.JPG

After:

IMG_7605.JPG

Before:

IMG_7585.JPG

After:

IMG_7601.JPG

There's not a before shot for this one, but couldn't resist including the after-glow:

IMG_7603.JPG

Finally, my 2-year-old son was there to help again. After cleaning for a bit he told me, "Dada, I want to play," referring to Swinger, this game we'd been cleaning together for a few days now. I explained to him that I would like to do that, too. But that's why we're taking this time to clean it up, so that we can play it. However, right now it is not working.

After a brief ponder, he walks behind me, finds a baggie of balls I purchased from Pinball Life, and brings them over to the playfield:

IMG_7619.JPG

Yes, son, you're absolutely right. We will need those to make it work.

#156 3 years ago

Now that the playfield is clean (or at least as clean as I'm willing to make it), I'll be repopulating it, starting with the posts, plastics and rubbers. I have a set of white rubbers on order, so in the meantime I'm cleaning posts. There are a few of them...

IMG_7647.jpg

Not all of them were incredibly dirty, but enough of them that my meticulous sensibilities felt the need to go through the whole lot. Here are a few of the dirtiest ones:

IMG_7646.jpg

...which were pretty easily cleaned with some 91% isopropyl alcohol and an old shirt:

IMG_7648.jpg

Here are the results of the cleaning:

IMG_7649.jpg

I've still got about 1/2 of that bag to make my way through. We'll see, maybe nap time today will aford me some time to complete the rest of the batch.

#157 3 years ago

Within minutes of my previous post, I got a hot tip from a one, N. Baldridge. He saw my last entry and said,

"Squirt out some hand-cleaner and dunk the remaining posts in. Wipe off, nice and shiny and good to go!"

So I grabbed another sandwich bag and put a dollop of hand cleaner in there:

photo-1.jpg

...then jangled 'em around between my hands to get the stuff good and coated over all the posts.

photo 2.JPG

After sitting through a couple episodes of restoration shows during nap-time, I had the remainder of the posts cleaned.

photo 3.JPG

And an excuse to label another sandwich baggie.

photo 4.JPG

Naptime over. 'Til next time.

#158 3 years ago

Back from vacation:

Tumbling - I have a standard Berry tumbler, nothing special. I use walnut media from the pet store. I add a squirt - maybe 3-4 ounces of either Novus 2 or Flitz, whatever is handy. I usually start tumbling in the evening, and turn it off the next day when I get home from work - so less than 24 hours usually does the trick. Sometimes it takes a little longer. If I have something really rusty, I wire wheel and buff first to get off the big chunks. I tumble everything metal that will fit. The largest pieces are usually the outhole guide brackets and plunger. Leg bolts are a must do.

Playfield posts - I have a large bowl. I fill with warm water and Dawn detergent. I add the playfield plastics and plastic posts. I don't wait at all, I start with the playfield plastics and a soft rag, wipe them clean, and rinse. If they are really bad, I spray them with a little Mean Green and that always gets them clean fast. After I'm done with the plastics, the posts have had time to loosen up a little. I use and old toothbrush, and the dirt comes off quickly, with almost no work at all.

I've tried the hand cleaner method, but after rinsing, there seems to be a film left. I have no evidence, but they feel like they would attract dust/dirt quicker. I've heard people have good results with putting them in a silverware bag in a dishwasher - no heat/dry cycle too.

Now that it is cleaned, your playfield is one of the best I've seen. They are usually trashed.

Frank

#159 3 years ago
Quoted from FrankJ:

Tumbling...
Playfield posts...
I've tried the hand cleaner method...

Many thanks for chiming in again after your vay-cay, Frank. All great info. Much appreciated.

Quoted from yancy:

Wow, that's one of the better magic eraser results I've seen.

Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

Amazing what a little elbow grease, melamine and alcohol will do, eh?

Quoted from OuterDork:

The game is looking fantastic.

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

My wife came downstairs to say good night, and even she was impressed (not an easy accomplishment, as she has NOT been impressed with my $75 turd for several months now). I believe her comment was something like, "Wow, you're not going to want to re-theme this after you're done cleaning it!"

Quoted from FrankJ:

Now that it is cleaned, your playfield is one of the best I've seen. They are usually trashed.

You guys need to stop telling me stuff like this or I'm gonna develop a complex about sanding this thing down. Hard to believe that a pin that was mere days from being tossed into a landfill could clean-up this nicely.

Anyhow, thanks a lot for the supportive words, FrankJ et al.

#160 3 years ago

Got a few posts put on the ole' playfield today. My rubbers haven't arrived yet, so not much reason to start screwing on plastics. Nevertheless, here we go.

Started with a bare playfield today (an old shot pre-cleaning...DON'T JUDGE ME!):

IMG_7527.jpg

...and finished with about 2/3's of the posts screwed to the playfield:

IMG_7682.jpg

My pretties:

IMG_7685.jpg

Also cleaned some of the metal screw posts (Left, before cleaning. Right, after cleaning):

IMG_7679.jpg

I found it really difficult to photograph chrome. Regardless, here's another shot:

IMG_7672.jpg

In order to clean those chromed posts, I just used some Mother's Aluminum polish that I mentioned earlier:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-swinger-restoration-and-eventual-retheme/page/3#post-2625078

Finally, I poked around at some of the stand-up targets (6 total) and found out that two of them were just sort of dangling there. While there wasn't much visual difference on the top of the playfield:

IMG_7665.jpg

...underneath the playfield it was pretty obvious what was going on. Here's what they're supposed to look like:

IMG_7663.jpg

...riveted to a post and screwed to the playfield.

Here is what the dangly ones looked like underneath:

IMG_7669.jpg

...just sort of hanging there. So I'll be on the look-out for some screws to fix those.

#161 3 years ago

Squeaked in another bit of work time this evening. I extracted one of the riveted posts from that dangly stand-up target I mentioned previously:

IMG_7696.jpg

Now I can take this to the hardware store to size it against some new screws.

Also re-attached the couple of coil assemblies underneath the apron (left-outlane kick-back and ball trough launch):

IMG_7693.jpg

All posts are in now:

IMG_7689.jpg

...at least, most of them. It seems as though I'm short a few. Three to be exact:

IMG_7692.jpg

...and one more here:

IMG_7691.jpg

The odd thing is, I seem to have the appropriate amount of hardware: three additional screws to hold down the three missing posts:

IMG_7688.jpg

...but an extra couple of chrome posts? Maybe there's some sort of combination of replacing these chrome posts with existing red posts I've got screwed down in the wrong position. Unfortunately it's late and I don't have the brain-power to figure it out right now. Perhaps another time when I have the wherewithal to sort through some previously snapped pics I'll be able to identify where these chrome posts go and recover a couple of red posts.

A job for another day.

P.S. It just occurred to me, I believe there are a couple of Swinger owners following this thread. If my pictures don't tell me where these extra chrome posts go, I might be bothering you for a shot of your assembled Swinger to see where they go.

#162 3 years ago

You can clean one of my playfields anytime.

let me know next time you're in the austin area and I'll put you to work...

#163 3 years ago
Quoted from btw75:

You can clean one of my playfields anytime.
let me know next time you're in the austin area and I'll put you to work...

Sure thing, BTW. It's only taken me...let's see here...four months so far? Half-a-year of room and board ought to be a fine trade-off. Let's just make sure TPF happens during one of those 6 months...always wanted to attend.

#164 3 years ago

I'll save you the trouble. This looks like a metal post to me:

swinger_metal_post.jpg

And its sister on the other side:

swinger_metal_post_both_sides.jpg

The placement makes sense since these posts are out in the open and get the brunt of the hardest flipper shots. There might have been one behind the swinging target as well. You have three screws, three holes and two posts. There is another post in there somewhere or in your house somewhere. Have you checked inside the cabinet? They can be hiding in the coin door mechs or in relays under the playfield. You can tell where the metal posts go. Remove the suspect red posts and see if the indentation in the playfield is large (red post) or smaller (metal post). Also, put one of the metal posts over the screw hole behind the swinging target to see if it fits the clean area and ring where the old post sat. It's also a good place to put a metal post!

It's a shame you have to sand down that playfield art. You're right, it's not top notch artwork but it's in great shape. You would be hard pressed to find a Swinger with a playfield as good looking as yours. There is even minimal wear under the pop bumpers. Maybe you can swap in another playfield in worse shape? They are certainly out there. Or you could find a trashed playfield on a different theme/machine. There, I've said it. You are welcome to beat me up now for saying it. It's yours and of course you can do what you want with it. I'll be quiet now...

I've been lurking and enjoying your thread. It brings back memories of my Williams Expo restore. Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing more of your art work, clever banter and pictures of your progress. Well done!

#165 3 years ago

Just read through the entire thread... I've learned one heck of a lot by doing it. Amazing results. Combine that with awesome documentation and I feel a heck of a lot more confident working on EM games now.

I'll echo the same sentiments as others....it's a shame that it's going to the belt sander given how great it's looking. The difference between how it looked before you started and how it looks now is amazing. Come on Pinside, somebody send him that beater Swinger playfield youve got hiding in a dusty warehouse as a thank you for this amazing thread!

Either way, this is great proof that with time and effort, games that look rough in the beginning can be saved and are a great way to learn how they work!

Keep up the awesome work!

#166 3 years ago
Quoted from Pecos:

I'll save you the trouble.

You are the man! Thanks for doing my work for me, Pecos.

Quoted from Pecos:

...these posts are out in the open and get the brunt of the hardest flipper shots.

Ah-ha! That DOES make a lot of sense.

Quoted from Pecos:

You have three screws, three holes and two posts. There is another post in there somewhere...

Right? This is baffling me. I was really careful and STUPIDLY meticulous about bagging and labeling.

bagsForDays.jpg

I'm not sure what happened. But you're absolutely right, it's gotta be somewhere. I'll keep my eye out and definitely poke around in the places you've mentioned.

Quoted from Pecos:

It's a shame you have to sand down that playfield art.

I know. It would be a lot easier if these cleaning tests didn't go so well. Ha-ha!

Quoted from Pecos:

...you could find a trashed playfield on a different theme/machine. There, I've said it. You are welcome to beat me up now for saying it.

No no...no beating-up on this thread. (There are plenty of other places on this forum where you can go for that.) The thought had crossed my mind, actually, but I haven't mentioned it for a couple reasons:

1) I'm trying to keep this project relatively inexpensive for the time being. My family and I just moved into a nice house, we're teachers so we don't get paid in the summer, and we're running a tight ship for now. My fear was that if I found a beat Swinger PF, I'd be out another chunk of change.

2) I felt a little presumptuous asking the community if there was one available.

...but hey, with comments like this:

Quoted from ejacques:

Come on Pinside, somebody send him that beater Swinger playfield youve got hiding in a dusty warehouse as a thank you for this amazing thread!

...maybe I should mention it. I wouldn't want to take it for free, but maybe we can work something out. I'm also attending the Chicago Pinball Expo in October, so perhaps that could save us both some shipping (oh, mythical Swinger angel). Alright. It's out there now.

Quoted from Pecos:

I've been lurking and enjoying your thread. It brings back memories of my Williams Expo restore. Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing more of your art work, clever banter and pictures of your progress. Well done!

Finally, thanks so much for your kind words and helpful comments, Pecos. I really appreciate you taking the time to leave a post.

Quoted from ejacques:

Just read through the entire thread... I've learned one heck of a lot by doing it. Amazing results. Combine that with awesome documentation and I feel a heck of a lot more confident working on EM games now.

ejacques, wow, this is pretty gratifying. I'll admit, half of the impetus behind this documentary thread was selfish (to keep me accountable, working, and to create a place where I could review what I've done so that I can continue learning, reminding myself of what I've learned). However, the other half of why I'm documenting this process so meticulously is so that other folks in the hobby who are fearful of tech stuff can approach it from a newb's perspective. I really knew NOTHING about the inside of an EM pinball machine before starting this project and over the course of going through my Swinger I have a lot more confidence about it than I did four months ago. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the LION'S SHARE of my knowledge has come directly from Nick Baldridge. If you aren't already listening to his podcast (...and you've made it through all one hundred and some-odd posts of this mess?), I think you'll enjoy it:

Quoted from ejacques:

Keep up the awesome work!

Many thanks. I plan to, but feedback like this makes it a little easier.

#167 3 years ago

Yeah it would be nice to swap out the playfield for one in worse shape but I wouldn't sweat it if you find no takers. It's not a very desirable theme. I read your thread before starting my own and even though mine is a solid state, there are many similarities in the design. I'm trying to be as meticulous in documenting and posting as you are.

Congrats on the new job btw.

#168 3 years ago

I made a stop at one of the big-box hardware stores today and picked up a few things.

The combination of my Mtv-generation impatience and sensitive artist hands (say all that with a whiny voice, please) were both catalysts for this next purchase:

IMG_7698.jpg

I grabbed this wire wheel in hopes of polishing the metal pieces a little easier. I was really going to town on some of those under-apron metal guides with my scotch brite pads and it was taking, like, for-EH-varrrrr (more whining). So we'll see how this works.

Also, thinking about my...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

lily-white mouse-pushing hands

...I figured I should probably pick up some of these:

IMG_7697.jpg

...if I'll be wire-wheeling small metal parts.

Also, also:

IMG_7701.jpg

...I grabbed some machine screws to replace the broken riveted ones that were formerly holding my stand-up targets together.

Thankfully they fit pretty well.

IMG_7702.jpg

Snug, but good. Nothing broke when screwing it in.

Speaking of snug, the riveted screws (bolts, units, not sure of the proper nomenclature) also needed a bit of persuading to come out:

IMG_7703.jpg

...as did the screws when going back in:

IMG_7704.jpg

But when all was said and done, it held together like a champ!

IMG_7707.jpg

Another stand-up target and a few leafy-switch things (the things that register points behind the rubbers on slingshots and the like) to go! Here's hoping they're all this easy. ...famous last words.

#169 3 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

Yeah it would be nice to swap out the playfield for one in worse shape but I wouldn't sweat it if you find no takers. It's not a very desirable theme.

I've been having this conversation with myself more and more recently, trying to get myself back into my starting-point mind-set of...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

the art package is a lack-luster phone-in by Christian Marche, so I won't feel bad sanding it down to put my own art in it's place.

Quoted from dmbjunky:

I read your thread before starting my own and even though mine is a solid state, there are many similarities in the design. I'm trying to be as meticulous in documenting and posting as you are.

Please post a link here! I'd love to follow. I'm guessing a few other resto-interested folks here would, too.

Quoted from dmbjunky:

Congrats on the new job btw.

Thanks so much. If anyone else is wondering:

http://www.elephanteater.com/11401

#170 3 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

Speaking of snug, the riveted screws (bolts, units, not sure of the proper nomenclature) also needed a bit of persuading to come out:

Make sure those plastic inserts that are in the holes and help hold the switch pieces together are there and not broke. It looks like they are there from your pics. Those inserts will keep the screws from grounding all the contacts together and to ground.

BTW, this is an awesome thread and I am enjoying it. Thanx for the laughs too!

#171 3 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

Right? This is baffling me. I was really careful and STUPIDLY meticulous about bagging and labeling.

I finally started taping my screws with masking tape to the parts they went with. Meticulous is good and better than a pile of parts to sort through, not to mention all of those screws that got away!

I wasn't going to say this - didn't want to get the little one in trouble. Is it possible your helper borrowed one of those pretty red posts to go with his Lego set? Don't feel bad about losing one post. I lost several when they slid off the playfield into the mechs below and the reason why I suggested you take a peek in the cabinet. You are lucky, only one red post size. Expo has three sizes. Even with pictures it took some time to figure out where they all went. Hint, hint for those of you taking apart older '60s Williams games.

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...maybe I should mention it. I wouldn't want to take it for free, but maybe we can work something out. I'm also attending the Chicago Pinball Expo in October, so perhaps that could save us both some shipping (oh, mythical Swinger angel). Alright. It's out there now.

Go ahead and ask (guess you just did!). Someone would be very happy to have that playfield. I know I would! You would be doing someone a big favor. There should be a way to do it on the cheap for you.

Thanks for all of the kind words - much appreciated. Right back at ya!

#172 3 years ago

Next, I tackled one of those...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

leafy-switch things (the things that register points behind the rubbers on slingshots and the like)

...that were dangling about like the stand-up target. Anyhow, this:

IMG_7713.jpg

...looked like this under the hood:

IMG_7715.jpg

Thankfully, the retrofitting went just as smoothly as the aforementioned stand-up target

IMG_7716.jpg

The next stack I went to fix was the second dangly stand-up target:

IMG_7708.jpg

Unfortunately, as I was screwing in the new hardware, the tiny plastic tubes inside started to come out. I wasn't able to push it back inside the stack by hand, so I attempted to coax it back through using a pair of needle-nose pliers. As is evident from the next picture, that didn't go so well:

IMG_7709.jpg

I'm assuming this switch-stack/stand-up target is now ruined and I'll have to buy a new one (unless one of you more knowledgeable folks tell me otherwise).

Here's the sorry state in which it currently resides:

IMG_7711.jpg

If there is a silver lining to this botched repair, it's that I was able to see the tubes with the screw completely inside. There was a concern raised earlier today:

Quoted from jwwhite15:

Make sure those plastic inserts that are in the holes and help hold the switch pieces together are there and not broke. It looks like they are there from your pics.

Now I'm pretty certain they are not broken inside there. I looked at those previous pics and I BELIEVE what jwwhite15 saw was a piece of broken bakelite (which was broken prior to installing the new hardware). So, my guess is this will be alright (but as usual, I'm open to alternate opinions!).

While we're on this series of popped rivets on switch-stacks, I couldn't resist showing you this next operator-hack, this time on one of the slingshot leaf switches:

IMG_7719.jpg

...which goes a little something like this:

IMG_7718.jpg

Duct tape = FIXED!

(Not really, but hopefully a more substantial fix next time.)

#173 3 years ago
Quoted from jwwhite15:

Make sure those plastic inserts that are in the holes and help hold the switch pieces together are there and not broke. It looks like they are there from your pics. Those inserts will keep the screws from grounding all the contacts together and to ground.

I mentioned this above but thought I would include a pic for the sake of clarity. I'm guessing you were referring to this broken bakelite piece:

IMG_7702a.jpg

...but while it is cracked, it all seems to be there, and the tubes appear to be in tact, so I'm guessing all is well here. But of course, bring on those...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...alternate opinions!

I'm here to learn!

Quoted from jwwhite15:

BTW, this is an awesome thread and I am enjoying it. Thanx for the laughs too!

Thanks, jwwhite15! Really appreciate you saying as much.

#174 3 years ago
Quoted from Pecos:

I finally started taping my screws with masking tape to the parts they went with.

OH! Brilliant!!! I'm totally stealing that one.

Quoted from Pecos:

Is it possible your helper borrowed one of those pretty red posts to go with his Lego set?

Ha-ha! I suppose anything is possible, but this project is behind a closed door, only I allow him in, and I made sure to have the playfield pretty-much stripped bare by the time my little guy entered. By that point, everything was in a labeled plastic baggie, sealed, and out of reach. So, I guess what I'm trying is, I'm still the most likely culprit of this post-bungle. Ha-ha! But thanks for helping me locate a plausible scapegoat.

Quoted from Pecos:

Expo has three sizes. Even with pictures it took some time to figure out where they all went. Hint, hint for those of you taking apart older '60s Williams games.

PRO-TIP!

Quoted from Pecos:

Thanks for all of the kind words - much appreciated. Right back at ya!

Mutual admiration society, here! (Can't every thread be like this?)

#175 3 years ago

I've been working on a basket-case Expo recently (parted out head, cabinet and head FULL of hair. Some of which appears to be mouse, some of which is cat, some might be rat).

Just chiming in here about the posts. The different sized posts are fairly easy to note based on the position on the plastics. For example, the sling plastics require the slightly taller posts with the lip. Shorter posts are screwed underneath a plastic and the third type runs to the plastic as per normal.

Ryan, the plastic spacers prevent shorting internally between the screw and the various switches. One switch blade had power and the other provides a connection to one or more relays when powered. If the switch blades are shorted to the screw, it will register an immediate and constant switch closure.

When you get to the point of turning the game on, you will need to carefully watch for the closure of relays and stuck chime coils. Some coils, such as trip relays, will burn very quickly. Some coils, like the chime coils, will burn and be very difficult to take apart/replace.

The watchword is watch.

Switch may be OK. May need to have the spacer replaced. I may be able to send you a spare spacer, but they can be hard to install. To install/remove, you will have to be very careful not to twist the Bakelite spacers or the plastic spacers. They will snap.

All for now!

#176 3 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

Duct tape = FIXED!

If you can't fix it, DUC(T) it!

Quoted from bingopodcast:

Some coils, such as trip relays, will burn very quickly. Some coils, like the chime coils, will burn and be very difficult to take apart/replace.

Ding. I have personal experience with that. Good advice.

#177 3 years ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

I've been working on a basket-case Expo recently (parted out head, cabinet and head FULL of hair. Some of which appears to be mouse, some of which is cat, some might be rat).

...and here I thought my project here was rough to start. Yeesh! Shows what I know. So, is this hair-bombed Expo salvageable?

Quoted from bingopodcast:

When you get to the point of turning the game on, you will need to carefully watch for the closure of relays and stuck chime coils.

Noted! Thanks for the warning. When I (eventually) power-up, I'll be sure to do so with the playfield up.

#178 3 years ago

Back to that duct tape masterpiece:

IMG_7718.jpg

The moment I removed the bits holding it together, a couple of things became apparent; not only was there not much else holding it together, but I believe it was missing a piece of bakelite. Notice there is no bakelite on the right side in this picture:

IMG_7723.jpg

...which would mean one side of the switch would be screwed directly to the piece of metal hardware attached to the playfield. I'm no electrician, but I think I'm trying to avoid unwanted metal to metal contact. At least that's what the rest of the switch stacks seemed to be doing with that extra piece of bakelite. So, I took one of the doubled-up pieces of bakelite on the left and moved it to the right before screwing the whole thing back to the PF:

IMG_7726.jpg

Of course, this is an area where I'm seeking approval from more experienced folks here. In my mind, so long as those metal leaf switches are separated, it should work(?), but again, I know nothing about this stuff, so I hope someone will chime in about this. Here it is anchored to the PF (complete with duct tape residue):

IMG_7727.jpg

And here it is (background) with its partner slingshot switch (foreground). I used this foregrounded stack as a comparison for the bakelite arrangement. Not perfect, but close:

IMG_7731.jpg

The next dangly stack was near the back-right of the playfield:

IMG_7742.jpg

Here's the under-side:

IMG_7734.jpg

...and without much to do, it looked like this:

IMG_7740.jpg

#179 3 years ago

And that ^^

...was the last of the dangly targets to take care of. (Aside from the botched one that I need to fix.)

So, with those out of the way, I moved back to the red playfield posts. If you recall...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

It seems as though I'm short a few. Three to be exact

...but, also...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

I seem to have the appropriate amount of hardware: three additional screws to hold down the three missing posts [and] an extra couple of chrome posts

Thanks to Pecos' eagle eye:

Quoted from Pecos:

This looks like a metal post to me...and its sister on the other side

...I knew where to replace the couple of metal posts.

So here's the first:

IMG_7737.jpg

...which, in retrospect, I should have known, as it was hanging sloppily over the edge of that playfield hole. Not to mention, on closer inspection...

Quoted from Pecos:

the indentation in the playfield is...smaller (metal post).

IMG_7747.jpg

With all that figured out, here's the appropriate metal post appropriately screwed into its appropriate spot.

IMG_7748.jpg

The same switcheroo was done on the opposite side of the PF, and the two newly-freed posts were moved to THEIR appropriate positions:

IMG_7751.jpg

Now I'm down to only one extra screw. Maybe one day I'll find that errant post.

In the meantime, I've been itching to test out my new...

Here's the first candidate, some metal underneath the apron (in case this test goes horribly wrong):

IMG_7753.jpg

It worked pretty well...

IMG_7755.jpg

...but if I'm being honest with myself, it was probably a little coarse. I got a hot tip from a surly big box employee about a location I can go to get a better polishing tool. I might swing by there today with my little helper if we have some time between the park and nap time.

#180 3 years ago

Wire wheel takes practice. Are you doing with a drill press or a hand drill?

Using a wire wheel on a drill press gives you fine control - the press is operated via foot pedal.

Safety glasses and gloves are a must, as you well know.

Good job on the bakelite reduction. Sometimes the bakelite pulverizes, and you have to do stuff like that. I have a small stash of switch parts, and usually just pull a spare spacer. Your fix will work fine and you were right to do it. Your switch will need to be adjusted differently. You'll need to observe ball travel. You may want to move the good spacer piece from one stack to the other depending on how much exercise that switch gets.

I haven't talked much about that Expo on the podcast - I'm sure you'll hear all about it soon, if you really want to. Short answer, yes, it's running now. The long answer involves lots of grease and hair.

Yum!

#181 3 years ago

I wouldn't worry about your botched switch. It is almost certainly not going to be a problem in getting the game running. Once you have the game working and you are making design choices on the retheme that is when you want to decide if you are going to use the same square yellow targets or something different.

If you do decide to use those yellow ones i have a bunch of old switch stacks you can have. I can bring them to the cleveland pinball show if you happen to be going to that.

Also good to mention it is easiest to get those switches clean and straight when they are "dangly". I always burnish the contacts and flatten the switch leaves out before mounting them back on the playfield. If you make the switch look as close to straight and flat as possible it will probably be gapped correctly once new rubbers are installed.

#182 3 years ago

"Dada! I want clean peembah m'sheem!"

Who am I to keep a boy from his dreams?

IMG_7762.jpg

Today we polished some metal parts together. My son was on GSB detail, while I worked the the wire wheel:

IMG_7757.jpg

...via...

Yes. A hand drill.

We probably got to about 3 or 4 small parts of the ball trough before Owen's interest waned. Here's some before and after shots of a couple of the parts we photographed:

Before:

IMG_7773.jpg

After:

IMG_7775.jpg

Before:

IMG_7777.jpg

After:

IMG_7785.jpg

Before:

IMG_7779.jpg

After:

IMG_7788.jpg

Eating our elephant over here.

#183 3 years ago

How do you hold those parts? If you had a vise, you could clamp it in polish away. Another way is a vise-grip. We use C clamp vise-grips to clamp something to a table in the cabinet shop. This frees up both hands.

download (1).jpg

#184 3 years ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Good job on the bakelite reduction. ... Your fix will work fine and you were right to do it.

Oh, good! *phew*

Quoted from bingopodcast:

Your switch will need to be adjusted differently.

I'll keep that in mind. *records it in the list of things to do once the...

...is powered-on.

Quoted from bingopodcast:

Expo...Short answer, yes, it's running now. The long answer involves lots of grease and hair.

#185 3 years ago
Quoted from davideokills:

I wouldn't worry about your botched switch. ... Once you have the game working and you are making design choices on the retheme that is when you want to decide if you are going to use the same square yellow targets or something different.

Thanks for the reassurance. ...and I'd been thinking about the possibility of different color stand-ups. Something to ponder after I have it up and running. In the short(er) term, I'd like this target to simply be functional for play-testing purposes, which made me think a quick switch stack tube-thing would be the easiest thing to aquire. However, you make a good point; maybe I just start buying some of those alternate colored stand-up targets a little sooner. Hmmm...

Quoted from davideokills:

If you do decide to use those yellow ones i have a bunch of old switch stacks you can have. I can bring them to the cleveland pinball show if you happen to be going to that.

Oh...wow. That would be incredible. Unfortunately, I don't believe we'll be attending, but I'll drop you a line if that changes. Just out of curiosity, will you be attending the Chicago Pinball Expo?

Quoted from davideokills:

flatten the switch leaves out before mounting them back on the playfield. If you make the switch look as close to straight and flat as possible it will probably be gapped correctly once new rubbers are installed.

Not being obtuse here, but...are those slingshot switch leaves supposed to be straight?

IMG_7726.jpg

*LOL* I kinda thought they were, but then I looked at the others and the all seem to be bent (mangled?) in a very similar style, so then I began to question myself.

#186 3 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

How do you hold those parts?

IMG_7697.JPG

Quoted from dmbjunky:

If you had a vise, you could clamp it in polish away.

That would be the smart thing to do. I might have to invest in one of those. I've thought about it several times but haven't pulled the trigger yet. One caught my eye at the big box store the other day yesterday and the small ones weren't as expensive as I'd feared.

Quoted from dmbjunky:

Another way is a vise-grip. We use C clamp vise-grips to clamp something to a table in the cabinet shop. This frees up both hands.

Hm! More food for thought. I was considering needle-nose pliers (maybe lined with some cloth so as not to damage the metal), but I've gotta have a clamp or two around here somewhere. Having two hands to work with would definitely be a benefit. Do you put anything underneath the metal piece you're polishing so as not to damage your table? ...or do you just polish on an outcast table?

Thanks for all the suggestions, dmbJunky! (P.S. Are you a Dave Matthews Band fan?)

#188 3 years ago

detail.jpg

Uhm...yah? I'd say that's pretty straight! Ha-ha!

Do you have any Jedi tricks for flattening, or just bend until appropriate?

#189 3 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

detail.jpg
Uhm...yah? I'd say that's pretty straight! Ha-ha!
Do you have any Jedi tricks for flattening, or just bend until appropriate?

PBR sells blades and contacts, you can buy a bunch and redo them.

http://www.pbresource.com/pfswitch.htm#common

#190 3 years ago
Quoted from PhilGreg:

PBR sells blades and contacts, you can buy a bunch and redo them.
http://www.pbresource.com/pfswitch.htm#common

Oh, cool! If the flattening doesn't work, this looks like a great option. I do have some questions, though:

1) It looks like I'd have to attach my own contacts to those blades. How does that work? (Just a bit of solder or is there riveting involved? ...or something I'm not thinking of?)

2) It appears as though there are two different types of contacts:
a. The CONTACT-SM-X are a silver alloy- gold flashed for EM/SS use.
b. The CU-CONTACT are tungstein face, copper backed for high current applications.

...my assumption is that I'd want the CONTACT-SM-X (for EM/SS use), but I guess I don't understand what a high-current application would be in this instance.

Reminder: You're speaking to an artist, not an electrician. Pardon my rudimentary questions.

#191 3 years ago

When they are really bad I replace them with new blades. The contacts have a nub on the backside that you flatten down gently with a hammer. It isn't tough.

Gold plated ones are for playfield switches. The high current would go on flipper EOS switches or flipper button switches.

#192 3 years ago

I usually drop a bit of solder on the back of the contacts, IIRC they don't hold in place on their own, but I could be wrong.

#193 3 years ago
Quoted from davideokills:

When they are really bad I replace them with new blades. The contacts have a nub on the backside that you flatten down gently with a hammer. It isn't tough.
Gold plated ones are for playfield switches. The high current would go on flipper EOS switches or flipper button switches.

Quoted from PhilGreg:

I usually drop a bit of solder on the back of the contacts, IIRC they don't hold in place on their own, but I could be wrong.

If not A, then B. Cool! Sounds easily doable, if I need to go that route.

You guys are the coolest! Thanks for chiming in here, educating me, and following along.

Sincerely,
Ryan

#194 3 years ago

I've been repairing and restoring EM machines for 30+ years. The only blades I have ever replaced were broken or badly mangled.

Take a Dremel tool with a wire wheel and they will clean up shiny new. A little bend with a points-bending tool and they will be nice and clean and nice and straight. PB Resource sells those too $4.56 - part number ADJ.

Once you get the plastics, posts, and rubbers on, you see very little of the blades anyway.

Frank

#195 3 years ago

I had once decided I wanted to be a pinball repairman - I headed to a client's place to check on his ... I forget what the machine was. Late 60s or early 70s Bally with a big relay bank instead of, or working in conjunction with, the score motor - my memory's fuzzy...
I was diagnosing it with him looking over my shoulder, it would work a couple of games then stop working and I couldn't figure it out.
I had to bring the bottom panel home to work on it. Finally I found that the problem was a switch that had a blade bending away from the other one after a couple of contacts.
I figured out shortly after that my new found night job wasn't worth the trouble.
As far as not needing to replace blades I'd mostly agree, but you do have to draw the line when it loses its integrity like that.

#196 3 years ago

The only time I've ever had to replace a switch is when it is missing completely (to be found in the bottom of the cabinet somewhere), or if the contact starts coming loose. I do the solder trick, but you have to be careful of the switch that you do this to.

The sling switches are always mangled. Remember that the ball slams into them with high frequency and velocity. Couple that with the fact that they are not easy to adjust if you're lazy and you get funky looking contacts.

To straighten, if needed, you can take a pair of needle or chain nosed pliers and mash them horizontally across the bend. Honestly, I wouldn't bother. You'll have to adjust once rubber is on to see what you need to do anyway...

That one looks usable to me!

#197 3 years ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

To straighten, if needed, you can take a pair of needle or chain nosed pliers and mash them horizontally across the bend.

When I use needle-nosed pliers, I add another bend - kind of a z-pattern. When I use a point-bending tool I get more precision and am able to unbend at the original bend giving a more normal, unmolested look.

When I bought mine, many years ago, the kit had 4 - double-ended tools of differing angles and bends. I have more versatility in mine than what is available now, so your mileage may vary...

#198 3 years ago

I absolutely use a switch adjuster when I am actually making an adjustment - I only use the needle nose when trying to unbend, in case that wasn't clear.

The Z-pattern is a good idea - it reinforces that area a bit.

#199 3 years ago

What exactly is a...

Quoted from FrankJ:

point-bending tool

...?

Is this anything close?

31fojsriPUL.jpg

amazon.com link »

#200 3 years ago

SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC POST:

I've had a really great experience documenting this restoration/re-theme thus far, I'm incredibly thankful for the University of Electro-Mechanical Education I'm receiving, and I can't believe we're up to 200 posts already. To celebrate, I thought I'd offer a fun give-away to thank this thread's loyal followers.

I'm a comic book artist and I'd like to give away ANYTHING in my store to the first person who responds on this thread listing an interest in SOMETHING SPECIFIC. It could be a comic of mine, one of the Drop Target Zines I've contributed to, heck it could even be one of the several pinball T-shirts I've illustrated (provided I still have your size).

Here's a link to my comics store page if you'd like to sift through some product descriptions:

http://www.elephanteater.com/comics

...and here's a page with my Pinball T-shirt and Poster artwork (that I haven't had time to add to the previously mentioned store page):

http://www.elephanteater.com/10761

Good luck to the lucky winner, and huge thanks to everyone for favoriting, following, and participating in this thread.

Much appreciated,
Ryan Claytor
Elephant Eater Comics
www.ElephantEater.com

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