Pretty sure Cointaker's twin frosted LED is the same product as Comet's twin frosted 2835. But... Cointaker (last I checked) did not have an equivalent non-ghosting version with the same color temp. Making it harder to get a consistent tone across all the bulbs.

That's why you'll need Comet's 1SMD non-ghosting frosted warm white for the on/off lamps (such as ball count/under inserts/etc)... because the color match is closer to the 2835. For now. Hope it lasts over successive runs.

Non-ghosting in EM's *are* necessary to avoid unwanted flickering.

You can go down a long tunnel with leds on EMs. From what I have seen so far, there is no easy set of answers because each machine will be a little different. You have to experiment like you did to find out what works best for each machine. But good starting points would be 1 led warm clear for GI (I like Comet retro), always frosted for behind the backglass, and you can go brighter with 2 leds under inserts.

Then you have to test all the non GI lights for flicker while playing the machine. That varies between machines also. You can go with the non ghosting bulbs but the resistor trick works also, at least for me, and is cheaper. The flickering on an EM is due to different reasons than on a SS, but adding a resistor across the bulb seems to get rid of it just the same.

I've got a pretty big write up in mind about leds on EMs based on the work I did with two of them so far, just too lazy to write it all out. Plus as you said it is very difficult to provide visual documentation due to the difficulties in photographing the lights. There are some tricks you can do with the camera to help that but it takes a lot work.

I'm getting burned out from computer work but I'll send some stuff from my tablet while I kick back and watch football.

First here are some past threads to read if you haven't already.

Nicovoltas thread has some good info, including a discussion about EM flickering/ghosting.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stealth-led-a-recommended-recipe-for-ems

This thread has some good info but is most interesting to read about the opinions many have about leds in EMs.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/led-lights-on-a-em

For the resistor thing, I bought 100 470 ohm 1/4 watt carbon film resistors from tayda electronics for $5 with free shipping. That is 5 cents each. If you solder one across the base of an insert bulb then the flickering seems to go away. It's cheaper than non ghosting bulbs which also work but are a lot more $. Then again, it's a pain to solder on the resistor so it's a trade off. I can post a picture of what the resistor looks like later.

Pic of resistors soldered on insert lights, pin is Bally Monte Carlo.
IMG_0092 (resized).JPG

Here are the highlights.

This is based on my experience with only two EMs of similar vintage, Bally Bon Voyage (BV) and Bally Monte Carlo (MC), so it is far from complete. Just my own ideas and opinions.

I would always start by saying there is nothing wrong with the ideas that EMs should never have leds in them. There are some people that find it ok to use leds as well. The good thing is, it is pretty much easily reversible. Save the old incandescent and they all go back in fairly easily.

Next, from what I have seen and from what I have read, and also based on lots of discussions I had with Art at Comet, it seems that every EM machine is going to be different as far as what is the best solution. There is so much variation that what works with one may not work for another.

Finally, you have to factor in that different people have different tastes. What looks good to one looks hideous to another.

I break it down to 4 separate parts.

1. Playfield GI. These are the only bulbs where you can actually see the bulbs themselves, thus the trickiest. Generally it seems best to get a look as close to the incandescents as possible. The best start are single led, warm, and clear tops. The Comet retro ones come somewhat close it appearance, brightness and color(warmth). But in the end, you have to accept that the leds will never look exactly like the incandescents. It's just not gonna happen, they are two different technologies. So if you can't stand "close" you could decide to leave the GI as incandescents and try leds on the rest.

Frosted or natural white will give a whole different look to the playfield. It might look horrible, it might look ok, it might look great. You have to try it and see. It will depend on the color scheme and artwork.

2. Playfield Inserts. The brighter 2 led versions in white seem to look good but again some experimentation will show what looks best. Frosted will help prevent a highlight ring from showing through. But now you can have the flickering or ghosting problem, which shows up as the machine is played. Various things like pop bumpers being hit or other targets can cause them to briefly light. On BV you can just barely see it, you might not even notice it. On MC it is extremely obvious and pretty annoying. So now here you have to use non ghosting versions or add the resistor.

3. Backglass GI. Frosted warms seem to work fine. I can't see any difference in what they call "spotting" between those and incandescent. The bulbs are bright spots behind the back either way. If you used frosted it should have about the same amount of diffused spread. The retro warm clear might look better in the score reels because you can actually almost see those. One thing to deal with though are any that are blinking. BV has several of those. The incandescent versions versions are analog so it is totally random as far as the blink rate, thus giving the cool random blinking effect behind the logo. The led blinkers are fixed rate. You can get slow and fast blinking leds and mix them up and it looks ok. Or just leave an old style or two in there to keep the randomness.

4. Backglass Funtion Lights. These probably will have the same flickering/ghosting problem as the playfield inserts so non ghosting or resistor mods are needed. Frosted seems to work well behind the backglass for player up, ball in play, tilt, game over, etc.

All of this doesn't even take into account color leds or possible mods.

As far as color leds on the backglass, it might look good in some spots or maybe not. You have to try and see. Even though there seem to be good opportunities for color on the MC backglass, nothing I tried there looked any good, so they stayed all white. But BV had a few spots where I thought some blue and pink looked good. This is in the realm of personal taste.

Pic of BV backglass here with all leds and some colored.

http://www.xsvtoys.net/images/pinball/bon%20voyage/Bon%20Voyage%20backglass%202.jpg

As far as color leds on the playfield GI, I think that needs more exploration. It will definitively vary by machine. It will depend on the color scheme and the overall look. I tried some on BV and nothing looked good. It looks best with all white. The MC is more open to possible color. It has a lot of,green background and a white red and blue color scheme with poker chips. I matched it all with color leds and it looks kinda ok. But I don't think I would leave it that way. But that doesn't mean another EM might not look nice with some color on the GI.

As far as led mods, such as extra lighting behind the flippers or in certain areas of the playfield, that is wide open. I noticed some EMs are pretty dark. Maybe they might look better with more lighting? This needs more experimentation.

About taking pics of leds: The problem is with most cameras at auto settings, the lights themselves are going to be "blown out", that is, they are too bright to be able to see what they actually look like. This is because the camera wants to set an exposure that will make the rest of the image look nice. For example this photo shows an incandescent next to an led. Its a typical photo of this type. When you look at it you don't see any difference really, but your eyes will tell you something completely different when you are looking at the real thing.

lamps blown out (resized).jpg

Here's the same shot but with the camera exposure dialed way down. Now you can better see what the lights really look like, but of course the rest of the pic is dark.

incandescent and 8mm warm clear (resized).jpg

You can cheat with Photoshop and blend the 2 together for something like this.

6mm retro and new retro blended (resized).jpg

To each their own, but to me LED's blow in an EM. Just don't look right.

I haven't found any LED's which quite look right for GI locations. Still use filament bulbs for those locations... which usually tricks the eye into believing all the rest are filament bulbs too.

(except maybe the pop bumpers... haven't found a perfect match there yet)

Hey Ryan, don't know if you caught this in the "Pinball in movies or TV shows? Name a game you have seen in the background?" topic, but someone actually found a Swinger in the background in a movie:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-in-movies-or-tv-shows-name-a-game-you-have-seen-in-the-background/page/24#post-4567905