(Topic ID: 124004)

Williams Swinger Restoration and (Eventual) Retheme

By RyanClaytor

9 years ago


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There are 711 posts in this topic. You are on page 12 of 15.
#551 8 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

This one's mainly to show the snappy pop-bumper action...

That's beyond snappy! That's awesome! Also, looks like you have a budding silverball jockey there.

#552 8 years ago

If you recall, I've narrowed my problems down to...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...only a chime coil not firing...

So I started my quest to figure out my bum chime coil problem. I repeated the mantra I was given:

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...start with the coil that was having a problem and work backwards from there.

The first thing I checked was continuity at the coil lugs just to make sure the coil was still good

photo 2.JPGphoto 2.JPG

(I already had to...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

replace the main coil on the up-post

...of Swinger because it was bad.) Anyhow, the chime coil tested good for continuity.

So I took a look at the schematic:

photo 1.JPGphoto 1.JPG

After locating the medium chime coil that wasn't working (underscored by the yellow paper above), I traced it back toward the yellow/negative wire, reminding myself (again) that...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...current flows from negative to positive...

...and saw the next thing in the line was the 10 pt relay. I thought this was a little weird, seeing as though it was the 100 pt chime that wasn't working, but who am I to understand these things. Maybe there's some complex wiring matrix that is beyond me.

Regardless, I took a look at the 10 pt relay. It looked good. All switches were opening and closing as they should. There was deflection upon closing the relay, but some just barely, so I made some minor adjustments. I turned on the machine and tested again.

Still no 100 pt chime sounds.

At this point I began badgering bingopodcast. I wasn't really sure where to go at this point. He lobbed over the possibility that it could be a break in the line somewhere between the 10 pt relay (in the backbox) and the chime coil (in the front of the cab). There were a couple jones plugs between these two items. However, jones plugs seemed solid:

IMG_0217.JPGIMG_0217.JPG

...and when I tested continuity from chime coil to switch lug (via some aligator clips to lengthen those digital multimeter leads):

IMG_0228.JPGIMG_0228.JPG

...it, too, tested good for continuity.

Hrmm...

I was at a bit of an impass. So I turned on the machine and tested the chimes again by activating 10, 100, and 1000 point scores. Sure enough, 10 and 1000 points both chimed while 100 did not (same result I've been getting). However, keeping a line of site on the chimes (as I should have done the first time) I realized that the 100 pt chime was not in the middle, as I suspected, but rather it was the SMALL CHIME!!!

ohmy.gifohmy.gif

Well, that means I've been testing another chime coil (10pt) this whole time! No wonder everything was testing appropriately!! ...because it was working!!!

laughcry.giflaughcry.gif

So, assuming that 10 point scores should sound the big/low chime, 100 point scores should sound the medium/middle chime, and 1000 point scores should sound the small/high chime, I set about reordering the chime coils to put them in their proper sequence. In order to do that, I needed to take off the chimes themselves:

IMG_0218.JPGIMG_0218.JPG

...which meant unhooking the coat-hangers...

IMG_0219.JPGIMG_0219.JPG

#553 8 years ago

...in order to take off the top bracket...

IMG_0220.JPGIMG_0220.JPG

...to provide access to the coils:

IMG_0221.JPGIMG_0221.JPG

Once I reordered the coils to (what I THOUGHT was) the proper order, with

- 10 point sounding the big/low chime
- 100 point scores sounding the medium/middle chime
- 1000 point scores sounding the small/high chime

...(can you see where this is going?) I took another look at the schematic. The non-functional chime coil was now in the middle, so I referenced the schematic, and low and behold:

IMG_0224.JPGIMG_0224.JPG

I see that the SMALL chime unit is SUPPOSED to be the 100's sound! I had the coil order correct to begin with!

jim.gifjim.gif

Alright, so to make this clear as mud, my chimes are in the order that I want them to be, but not in the order of the schematic. I left them in this position and just knew to look at the SMALL chime unit coil on the schematic, even though the non-functional 100's unit now sits below the medium chime.

- -- ----- -- -

Side note: That would also explain why...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...the middle chime coil... [was in line with] ...the 10 pt relay...

...as I mentioned in the beginning of this trouble-shooting session, because the 10 pt chime coil was right where it was supposed to be, underneath the middle chime.

- -- ----- -- -

Okay okay, for the two people still with me, I'm following the SMALL CHIME (non-functional 100's chime) coil on the schematic. I follow the same procedures:

1) Test coil leads: Continuity=Good, meaning coil is good.
2) Test continuity between 100's chime coil and 100 point relay (the next element up-stream on the schematic): Continuity=Good
3) Look at corresponding switch on the 100 point relay. This looked good too.
4) I actuated the 100 point relay to see if ALL switches were doing what they should. THEY WERE NOT!!!

Ohmigod, I think I found something...on my own. Peep this; here's the 100's relay open (keep an eye on this normally open switch):

IMG_0225b.jpgIMG_0225b.jpg

...and here I've actuated the relay:

IMG_0226b.jpgIMG_0226b.jpg

...which did not close the switch! WOO-HOO!

So I break out the switch adjustment tool and correct that flaw. This was not the switch that was directly connected to the 100's chime coil, so I wasn't certain this would fix the problem, but at this point I was pretty excited that I found something.

Once the switch was corrected, I flip the machine back on, fire-up a game, test a 100 point score on the playfield and...

bell.gifbell.gif

...ALL SOUNDS ARE FUNCTIONING!!!

dance.gifdance.gif

YAASSSSS!!! Great glory lord almighty, after 8 months of tinkering and learning, this beauty LIVES!!!

#554 8 years ago

There are a couple minor fixes (pop lamp sockets and minor stuff like that), but I'm calling this 100%! Which means, it has now moved from the unfinished portion of our basement and joined the ranks of our gameroom:

IMG_0239.JPGIMG_0239.JPG

I can't tell you how happy and empowered this makes me feel. Thankfully, those following this thread are some of the elite few who know the high of bringing a pin back to life from the brink of the landfill...which is precisely where this gem would have ended its life had I waited to pick it up another couple of days.

IMG_0241.JPGIMG_0241.JPG

Also, with the advent of this milestone, the restoration complete, I'd like to once again offer a...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

give-away to thank this thread's loyal followers.

Quick reminder (for anyone tuning in recently):

- -- ----- -- -
I'm a comic book artist and I'd like to give away ANYTHING in my store to the first person who responds on this thread listing an interest in SOMETHING SPECIFIC. It could be a comic of mine, one of the Drop Target Zines I've contributed to, heck it could even be one of the several pinball T-shirts I've illustrated (provided I still have your size).

Here's a link to my comics store page if you'd like to sift through some product descriptions:

http://www.elephanteater.com/comics

...and here's a page with my Pinball T-shirt and Poster artwork (that I haven't had time to add to the previously mentioned store page):

http://www.elephanteater.com/10761
- -- ----- -- -

Good luck to the lucky winner, and huge thanks to everyone for favoriting, following, and participating in this thread.

Much appreciated,
Ryan Claytor
Elephant Eater Comics
http://www.ElephantEater.com

P.S. Do not fret, the re-theme portion of this project is still to come. However, I'll be playing this machine for a while before committing artwork to it. I'd like to understand play mechanics, ball travel, and other intricacies before I re-art this thing. In the meantime, thanks for your patience.

#555 8 years ago

great to hear everything is working.........cannot wait for the retheme

#556 8 years ago

Congrats! It is so cool to see that machine take it's place of pride with the other machines in the game room. (side note when are we redoing your basement to fit more pins? )

If you have any of your limited edition prints left over from the pinside art, I would love to get one of those framed up for my own basement, in preparation for my first pin purchase.

-Andy

#557 8 years ago
Quoted from FrankJ:

Even if you reuse old sockets, Dremel brush the insides and gently squeeze the side tabs in if the bulbs are a little loose and you can bring many of them back to life.

Hm!

Quoted from Pecos:

Ryan, you've gapped the switches on those pop bumpers perfectly! Well done. It also helps that 1972 was the year that Williams changed over to DC pop bumbers! THAT is how EMs in the 70s used to play!

Ha-ha! Sweet!!! That's what I want to hear! I always wondered what the performance of these machines were like originally. My birth-year is after any EM machine on the market, so I have no past experience to compare it with. (Thanks, too, for the compliments, Pecos...and for all your help throughout this process!)

Quoted from xsvtoys:

Awesomeness Level +1000

Thanks, xsvtoys! (Almost didn't recognize you without your Monte Carlo avatar.)

Quoted from GRUMPY:

How about the retheme now, I have been waiting 8 months and have no more popcorn.
Nice work so far.

Quoted from zerbam:

...cannot wait for the retheme

I know, I know, I'm being a major tease. I'd like to officially break the news on the For Amusement Only Podcast. ...and before I do that, I'd like to have some artwork to show, likely the backglass. ...and before that I do that, I want to play the game for a while and get comfortable with how it plays (as that will likely have an affect on specifics of the re-theme). But, again...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...thanks for your patience...

...I know it's been a while.

Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

That's beyond snappy! That's awesome!

Thanks, man! My eyes kinda bug-out a little bit each time I watch that pop-bumper video. Yeesh!!!

Quoted from Pecos:

Thanks for posting the videos. It looks like you already have a pinball wizard on your hands. It's scary to think how good he will be in a few short years.

Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

Also, looks like you have a budding silverball jockey there.

Ha-ha! Sometimes I have to remind myself he's only 2. *proud papa*

Quoted from zerbam:

great to hear everything is working...

Thanks, Zerbam!

Finally,

Quoted from OuterDork:

If you have any of your limited edition prints left over from the pinside art, I would love to get one of those framed up for my own basement, in preparation for my first pin purchase.

pir.gifpir.gif

Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding!!! We have a winner!!! ...and would you look at that, I don't even have to ship it.

Woo-hoo!

Maybe your prize can come with a test-drive of my newly completed Swinger. Ha-ha! We'll work it out via PM. Can't wait to hand you a Pinside poster, OuterDork!

- -- ----- -- -

Just another brief note, I wanted to make everyone aware that Pecos sent me an exhaustive list to help add to my linked table of contents at the beginning of this thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-swinger-restoration-and-eventual-retheme#post-2370165

...so I wanted to send out a public thank you and good guy announcement regarding that. Thanks, Pecos!!!

#558 8 years ago

Awesome. I am so happy you got it going. I hope you document the design of the new theme as well as the actual theming. I would love to hear about how to think up a design and make it coherent!

#559 8 years ago
Quoted from mark532011:

Awesome. I am so happy you got it going.

Thanks, Mark. Me too.

Quoted from mark532011:

I hope you document the design of the new theme as well as the actual theming. I would love to hear about how to think up a design and make it coherent!

Completely! This thread may be a little more quiet than usual for the next while, but it is far from complete. I'll update here with all the gory details on the re-theme (as you've grown accustom to for the restoration over the past 8 months). Ha-ha!

#560 8 years ago

Looking forward to the retheme.....

Cant Wait.jpgCant Wait.jpg

#561 8 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

milestone, the restoration complete

Well, I guess it's never REEEALLY complete, is it?

A couple days after I declared complete functionality, all the lights on the playfield went out and one of the pop bumper coils started to kind of flutter:

1140.gif1140.gif

...like that.

So I started at the pop coil. I figured it was a minor switch adjustment waiting to happen. When I investigated, I found the spoon had a bit of a bend in it, causing some irregular triggering of the switch:

IMG_0350.jpgIMG_0350.jpg

So I broke-out the ole' trusty switch adjuster, corrected that bend as best I could, and re-gapped the switch:

IMG_0351.jpgIMG_0351.jpg

All better.

Then, if you recall (from my schematic-learnin'), I was told...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

The 6 volt line leads to and powers...lamps, for the most part...

...so I pulled the 6 volt fuses and checked them for continuity to make sure they were good. They were both fine. I put them both back in their respective fuse holders, but when I did I noticed they each spun a bit and were a tad rattly. Thus, I gave the fuse holders a romantic pinch:

IMG_0352.jpgIMG_0352.jpg

...just enough so the fuses would be held snugly. That worked too. Playfield lights are now completely functional.

Man, it feels good to be a gangsta.

iraztdd7shvdbvep9tfm.jpgiraztdd7shvdbvep9tfm.jpg

While I was in there, I took a look at the plumb-bob, as I could not shake for anything. The slightest nudge and Swinger would tilt away my ball:

IMG_0353.jpgIMG_0353.jpg

Just to see how it stacked up next to my Jubilee, I took a quick peek inside ole' Jubi's coindoor:

IMG_0354.jpgIMG_0354.jpg

Sure enough, some low-hangin' fruit. (DON'T JUDGE MY NUDGE!!!)

So, I lowered it as much as I could, but I have a feeling the rod that the metal cone grips has been shorten in my Swinger:

IMG_0355.jpgIMG_0355.jpg

It also looks like there's been a chunk taken out of the bob(? ...the plumb? ...the cone?). It still functions fine, so I suppose it's no big deal. No one will know except you and me.

Alright, time to go break something else.

#562 8 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

I have a feeling the rod that the metal cone grips has been shorten in my Swinger:

Which would be why the plumb... bob...ring-thing(?) has been moved north at least twice? There seem to be old holes in your picture...

#563 8 years ago

Now THAT's a low hanging tilt bob. LOL

#564 8 years ago

Ryan, you need to vaccum out the area under your tilt bob in swinger. All that junk is going to cause a problem next time you move the game. I assume you're going to move it to spray your new artwork on the cab, so you'll turn the cab up and... problems.

Chunks missing on the tilt bob are fairly common. It'll work fine, but may be less balanced than before. Though it uses one of the screws, so it is already not perfectly balanced.

....and finally, you'll be pretty sad when you play one of my games, based on that Jubilee plumb bob position.

#565 8 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

Which would be why the plumb... bob...ring-thing(?) has been moved north at least twice? There seem to be old holes in your picture...

OOooaaahhh...!!! (Didn't even notice those.) Good eye! Man, this machine has a storied past.

Quoted from dmbjunky:

Now THAT's a low hanging tilt bob. LOL

At least it has a tilt bob. More than I can say for several of my machines.

Quoted from bingopodcast:

vaccum out the area under your tilt bob in swinger.

Good call. I actually left it upright to move it to its current position (thankfully). I appreciate the tip!

Quoted from bingopodcast:

you'll be pretty sad when you play one of my games, based on that Jubilee plumb bob position.

Are you trying to tell me it's not customary to shove your pins through the wall at the BingoPodcast Estate? How are you supposed to control that big ole' bingo ball?

P.S. Did I mention I'm getting this shirt for Xmas (not joking):

nemesis.jpgnemesis.jpg

#566 8 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

P.S. Did I mention I'm getting this shirt for Xmas (not joking):
nemesis.jpg

Cool shirt. I asked for some wrestling/vidjagame/pinball T-shirts. Pretty easy gift.

#567 8 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

P.S. Did I mention I'm getting this shirt for Xmas (not joking):

As configured, that tilt bob won't be very effective. You need to add some wires to that thing!

#568 8 years ago
Quoted from Pecos:

As configured, that tilt bob won't be very effective.

Just the way I like 'em.

#569 8 years ago
Quoted from Pecos:

As configured, that tilt bob won't be very effective. You need to add some wires to that thing!

... no diodes needed if it's an EM shirt ...

There needs to be a version of that shirt with the same artwork but text that says "How's it hangin'?"

#570 8 years ago

Next time you place a Pinball Life order and have $6 burning a hole in your pocket, I'd recommend getting four of these:
fuse holder.jpgfuse holder.jpg

When you order multiples, they come in a handy block like this:
fuse block.jpgfuse block.jpg

#571 8 years ago

Been playing a lot of Swinger over the past week, learning more about what it does, and also figuring out some things it SHOULD be doing. I think I mentioned a couple of...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...pop lamp sockets...

...that were not functioning. Well, I dug into those...

IMG_0474.jpgIMG_0474.jpg

...and managed to figure out the 51 bulb I was using had a base that was a little smaller than the 44's. I was trying out some 51's to save some burn-risk on my pop caps, but since they're not lighting (and I'm not leaving my pins on all day anyway), I switched 'em back over to 44's. I like it bright anyway. I'm convinced the unlit bulbs were due partially to the smaller 51 base and in the other case likely due to the cruddy lamp socket (as discussed previously), which I'll be replacing during the re-theme.

Anyhow, the center 100 pop and the upper right green pop...

IMG_0475.jpgIMG_0475.jpg

...are both back to functioning. Now all the bumpers, passive and pops, are lighting like the proverbial bosses they are.

IMG_0476.jpgIMG_0476.jpg

Then I noticed a scoring issue with the center 100 pop bumper. It wasn't registering any score at all. I lifted the PF and tried a bit of switch cleaning:

IMG_0472.jpgIMG_0472.jpg

...without any result.

Then I poked around it with a ball in hand and noticed the pop in question would actually score if I jammed the ball in hard enough. Hm. I investigated that switch again and it turned out the switch was just BARELY touching, not enough to increment unless it got a little extra nudge to push it down just a bit further. So I adjusted the bottom leaf...

up.jpgup.jpg

...which started giving me 200 points for every hit of that pop bumper. Too much. I adjusted it back down a smidge...

down.jpgdown.jpg

...now switches touch appropriately, and I'm back to scoring 100 points on the 100 pop.

#572 8 years ago

I tried doing another thing yesterday. ...and by thing I mean fix. This short video I took will walk you through my predicament better than me typing out a bunch of pesky words:

So, in an effort to remady the scoring inaccuracies outlined above, I first took a look at the swinging target unit itself. This switch stack seemed to be riding the cam as it should and making/breaking appropriately:

IMG_0480_(resized).jpgIMG_0480_(resized).jpg

...and here's a quick look at the back of said unit. I didn't notice anything awry here either:

IMG_0481_(resized).jpgIMG_0481_(resized).jpg

Whenever that switch stack I mentioned above hits the little divet in the cam, it triggers a stepper unit to increment once. Here's the stepper (green pointy finger) in relation to the swinging target (upper right) underneath the playfield:

IMG_0482_(resized).jpgIMG_0482_(resized).jpg

...which happens to be the advance unit:

IMG_0483_(resized).jpgIMG_0483_(resized).jpg

Shrewd members of the Swinger Restore family will recall this was the unit I had some difficulties with during the cleaning/restore period in terms of spider arm correction. So to start, I double-checked all the connections of the spider arms:

IMG_0485_(resized).jpgIMG_0485_(resized).jpg

Lookin' good.

IMG_0484_(resized).jpgIMG_0484_(resized).jpg

I didn't see anything that needed corrected there. So I thought perhaps there were some misalignment issues, as I'd experienced in the past with my ball count unit. So I took a close look and it seemed as though some of the arms were not exactly where they needed to be on the traces. If you take a look at this next photo, the inside/shorter arms (red points) seem to be sort of riding the edge of the traces. Oddly though, the outside/longer arms (green point) looks pretty good(!??!):

IMG_0491_(resized).jpgIMG_0491_(resized).jpg

In an effort to realign the PCB under the wiper arms, I took off the main bolt:

IMG_0496_(resized).jpgIMG_0496_(resized).jpg

...pulled off the wiper arm (making sure I knew which direction it should be reattached...it's sort of keyed with a rectangular base so there are only 2 options):

IMG_0493_(resized).jpgIMG_0493_(resized).jpg

...then unscrewed the two phillips-head screws near the center there:

IMG_0495_(resized).jpgIMG_0495_(resized).jpg

...but as I did so, I noticed an odd label:

IMG_0494_(resized).jpgIMG_0494_(resized).jpg

Isn't this the Advance Unit?

452482-i_(resized).jpg452482-i_(resized).jpg

Why, yes. Yes it is.

Just to confirm I wasn't working with a frankensteined unit that was messing things up, I referenced the manual:

IMG_0509_(resized).jpgIMG_0509_(resized).jpg

...which quelled my fears, as the PCB in the illustration was identical to the one IRL. *phew*

Moving on, I rotated the advance unit ever-so-slightly in an attempt to realign. After reassembling the unit, here are my results:

IMG_0500_(resized).jpgIMG_0500_(resized).jpg

Now the inner arms are aligned (YAY!) but the outer arms seem to be slightly misaligned (BOO!). At this point I basically did this whole disassembly/realign/reassembly fandango about half-a-dozen times over, testing the results each and every time. It was an afternoon well-spent. In the end, I just couldn't get all arms to align perfectly. I settled for the longer arms being aligned and the inner arms slightly off. At that point I set about using my switch adjustment tool to bend (CAREFULLY) the inner wiper arms into a more appropriate position.

So that happened. I tested all positions. The planets all seem to have aligned. I test (again) and the same. ...identical. ...scoring. ...inaccuracies. ...are happening.

ostanza_(resized).pngostanza_(resized).png

Alright alright. Not whipped yet. Maybe you noticed something about this advance/match unit PCB that I pushed to the back of my mind at the start of this work sesh. I sent a pic to my bro, Nicky B.

IMG_0495_(resized).jpgIMG_0495_(resized).jpg

The first thing he said was, "Did you clean that thing?" I sho' 'nuff did, but boy howdy, does it ever have a healthy layer of grime on it. Nick suggested that perhaps I put too much Teflon lube on and it was, perhaps, becoming conductive. With all the crud on there, I wouldn't be surprised. So, cleany-cleany:

IMG_0505_(resized).jpgIMG_0505_(resized).jpg

Once cleaned...

IMG_0506_(resized).jpgIMG_0506_(resized).jpg

...I tested again.

No.

Change.

I tried going the schematic route to figure out which wire was the culprit. In doing so, I ran across this little anomaly and got pretty excited:

IMG_0510_(resized).jpgIMG_0510_(resized).jpg

If it's hard to tell, look closely:

Untitled-1_(resized).jpgUntitled-1_(resized).jpg

There's a fraying wire on one lead that was touching the lead beside it! Surely this must be it! I cleaned it up and...

No.

Change.

Again.

frusterated_(resized).pngfrusterated_(resized).png

I'm sure if I follow that schematic some more and do some continuity testing, an answer will reveal itself. But as for now, I'm stepping away from the search for a bit.

Until next time!

P.S. Thanks be to Robin for lifting the image cap so I don't have to upload my documentation of incompetency in multiple posts.

#573 8 years ago

Using the manual and schematic, you can see the wire which is supposed to trigger the 5000 point relay. You must test continuity between this wire and the relay switch. As your 1000 fires instead, this is consistent with a misaligned unit. So... I would take a step back and think about how this should work.

The swinging target motor basically just moves that continuous stepper. It's doing so. End of story on that.

The 5000 points are activated by positions on that advance unit (stepper). Verify the fingers and traces involved using the manual. Test for continuity with the wire that triggers the 5000 point relay. Now test to the wire that provides power to the 1000 pt relay. You may have continuity in both_ places. In this case, it may just be a short. There's simply not enough voltage after the drop of the 1000pt relay to fire the 5000 as well... so you get the behavior you described to me. (Haven't watched the video, hope this matches up). That's just one possibility.

So... based on that logic, if you have a short, how do you find it? It can only be in so many places, luckily, and since that advance unit is placed in the typical Williams fashion, (i.e. cram it in as far back on the playfield as possible so that anyone unlucky enough to lift the playfield is likely to damage it or the wiring behind it), you may have a couple of wires shorted together either on the unit itself or in the bundle going to the jones plug. Continuity tests are your friend, here, but time consuming. Wires touching underneath the female jones plug can take a while to find sometimes. Look closely at the Jones plug where this wire appears (verify wire color on male side of plug).

There are ways to narrow down a short, but first, do your simple tests to the 5000 pt relay from that one wire that feeds it.

I know it would have been a longshot for the teflon to be conductive (since it's not), but it's a good idea to do that job properly, and too much lube is just as bad or worse than not enough.

#574 8 years ago

Oh, and to test the stepper - step it to the 5000 position and test continuity from the finger on the spider to the 5000 pt relay.

#575 8 years ago

The upper score contact is on the wrong side of the pop yoke. You are not forcing the contacts together so in a short time they will be acting up again. You need to press them closed plus a little more for a wiping action to keep the contacts clean.

#576 8 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

The upper score contact is on the wrong side of the pop yoke. You are not forcing the contacts together so in a short time they will be acting up again. You need to press them closed plus a little more for a wiping action to keep the contacts clean.

I thought that too. I know pop bumper switches on earlier games were set up differently. If you look at the manual images (Planetary Pinball Site) for that era. Then what Ryan has looks appropriate for DC bumpers.

#577 8 years ago

A couple of house-cleaning items:

1)

Quoted from GRUMPY:

The upper score contact is on the wrong side of the pop yoke.

Quoted from AlexF:

If you look at the manual images (Planetary Pinball Site) for that era. Then what Ryan has looks appropriate for DC bumpers.

I think they're assembled correctly, as they're working like champs and I cross-checked the pop-bumpers on my Jubliee, a Williams title produced RIGHT after Swinger/Fun-Fest. Both Jubilee pops have the the same switch configuration. Here's one Jubilee pop bumper:

photo_1_(resized).JPGphoto_1_(resized).JPG

...and another:

photo_2_(resized).JPGphoto_2_(resized).JPG

...and of course all the Swinger pop bumpers are the same, since I'm the one who reassembled them.

2) I'm really distraught that one of my exquisitely curated animated gifs did not work last post:

frusterated_(resized).pngfrusterated_(resized).png

...now that it's not funny anymore, you should go see it in action here:

http://media1.giphy.com/media/tVGWrzD6x9Z3a/giphy.gif

- -- ----- -- -

Back to the scoring inaccuracies outlined last time. We (Nick and I) believe we've narrowed it down to the...

452482-i_(resized).jpg452482-i_(resized).jpg

We took a closer look at the wires for the 1000, 3000, and 5000 point awards:

photo-4800_(resized).jpgphoto-4800_(resized).jpg

...and compared it to the diagram in the manual:

unitDiagram_(resized).jpgunitDiagram_(resized).jpg

...which I'll rotate 180 degrees just so it's in the same orientation as the actual unit:

unitDiagramUpsideDown_(resized).jpgunitDiagramUpsideDown_(resized).jpg

So, this is the area we examined:

unitDiagramUpsideDownHighlight_(resized).jpgunitDiagramUpsideDownHighlight_(resized).jpg

and because...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

I'm far more an artist...than I am a tech...

...I have no idea what any of this meant. However, after making my way through another fog of ignorance, I came to understand this portion of the advance unit as the sequence of various point values that corresponded to the arc of points on the playfield:

arc_(resized).jpgarc_(resized).jpg

Alright, back to the diagram. So, essentially it shows that a group of linked traces will all award the same point value. For example, here we see the traces that are all linked (1st, 4th, and 7th) to the 1000 point relay coil via a set of wires:

unitDiagramUpsideDownHighlight1-4-7_(resized).jpgunitDiagramUpsideDownHighlight1-4-7_(resized).jpg

Next, the 5000 point relay coil is triggered by the next three traces (2nd, 5th, and 8th):

unitDiagramUpsideDownHighlight2-5-8_(resized).jpgunitDiagramUpsideDownHighlight2-5-8_(resized).jpg

Finally, the 3000 point relay coil is triggered by the last three traces (3rd, 6th, and 9th):

unitDiagramUpsideDownHighlight3-6-9_(resized).jpgunitDiagramUpsideDownHighlight3-6-9_(resized).jpg

This corresponds directly to the physical Advance Unit, which I've labeled here to help identify all the different traces associated with the various points awarded:

numberedWrong_(resized).jpgnumberedWrong_(resized).jpg

So, on closer inspection, the 1000 point relay coil should be triggered by the 1st, 4th, and 7th linked traces. Unfortunately:

1-4-9_(resized).jpg1-4-9_(resized).jpg

...it seems as though 1-4-9 are linked instead of 1-4-7. So there's one problem.

The 5000 point coil should be triggered by the 2-5-8 linked traces. However:

2-5-7_(resized).jpg2-5-7_(resized).jpg

...2-5-7 were linked instead. Another issue to correct.

Then, the 3000 point coil should be triggered by the 3-6-9 linked traces, BUT:

3-6-10_(resized).jpg3-6-10_(resized).jpg

3-6-10 are in their stead. Alright, so I had a gameplan and went to work, making sure to lay a cloth over the bottom board before I started soldering, just in case any errant "solder bombs" went astray:

IMG_0533_(resized).jpgIMG_0533_(resized).jpg

When I was done it looked like this:

correct_(resized).jpgcorrect_(resized).jpg

And here is the fix, numbered:

numberedCorrect_(resized).jpgnumberedCorrect_(resized).jpg

...so we can see 1-4-7 are linked:

1-4-7_(resized).jpg1-4-7_(resized).jpg

...2-5-8 are linked:

2-5-8_(resized).jpg2-5-8_(resized).jpg

...and 3-6-9 are linked:

3-6-9_(resized).jpg3-6-9_(resized).jpg

...just as the diagram says they should. I even cleaned up this overdose of solder:

correctOD_(resized).jpgcorrectOD_(resized).jpg

...so actually, in full-disclosure: it looks like this now:

final_(resized).jpgfinal_(resized).jpg

*phew* That was a doozy of a post. After all that...I now have a different but similar problem. Here are the current inaccuracies:

currentArcInaccuracies_(resized).jpgcurrentArcInaccuracies_(resized).jpg

Sort of at another stand-still, but ready to keep trying.

#578 8 years ago

Check the position of the wipers on the scoring side when scoring inaccurately and compare to lamp side.

Only those first three are wrong?

Check the wire colors as attached to the feeds for 1000, 3000, and 5000 pts. Correct colors in correct spots? Give a nice lil tug on each of the feed wires. See what happens. Don't pull too hard. You're just trying to see if you have a cold solder joint.

More likely is that you have the disc ever so slightly out of line. Bend in wiper for scoring is doing that in three positions, perhaps.

Does it do it from every of the first three positions no matter position of stepper.

The large fingers will wipe across scoring area because stepper is continuous.

#579 8 years ago

Oh my god...I just had an epiphany.

So, I've been focused on the bottom portion of the diagram that triggers the particular score relay coils. But take a gander over at the left side where it refers to the lamps.

image_(resized).jpgimage_(resized).jpg

The diagram shows the long arm sitting on a 1000 point lamp. The bottom long arm shows a 1000 point relay coil triggered.

Great.

Increment once. (BTW, spider arms move counter-clockwise in this diagram, and IRL, FWIW, IMHO, OMG, TTYL...)

Now we're at 5k. Still accurate for both lamp and score relay trigger.

Super.

Increment a second time.

3k. Still accurate for both lamp and score relay trigger.

Dandy.

Increment a third time.

1k. STILL accurate for both lamp and score relay trigger. ...I swear I'm about to get somewhere.

Let's increment that bad-boy a fourth time and here is where it gets interesting.

1k lamp lit. 5k score relay triggered.

Exactly what mine does!!!!

Increment a fifth time.

5k lamp lit. 3k triggered. Just like mine!!!

Increment a sixth time.

3 k lit. NO wire present! Nothing scores. Exactly like mine!!!

I cant wait to go solder and test out this theory, but its pretty late so I'm gonna turn in. Nevertheless, I'm pretty certain I just discovered a manual misprint and I'm psyched that I'm understanding it enough to diagnose. I'll be sure to report if my hypothesis is right.

Here's to Christmas miracles.

#580 8 years ago

OH.

EM.

GEE.

My logic was sound and my Swinger arc-o-points is scoring appropriately!!!

fan_(resized).pngfan_(resized).png

...and the task was accomplished in under 10 minutes (not including soldering gun heat-up time)!

IMG_0656_(resized).pngIMG_0656_(resized).png

For those interested, here's a pic of the newly wired Advance Unit:

IMG_0657_(resized).jpgIMG_0657_(resized).jpg

...and for any other Swinger owners out there, here's what the diagram SHOULD look like:

SwingerAdvanceUnitDiagramCorrect_(resized).jpgSwingerAdvanceUnitDiagramCorrect_(resized).jpg

...which, if you're wondering, the only difference is in the 3 left-most wires in the point-value triggered section:

SwingerAdvanceUnitDiagramCorrectHighlight_(resized).jpgSwingerAdvanceUnitDiagramCorrectHighlight_(resized).jpg

Thank you and good night!

#581 8 years ago

At this rate, I am going to have to hire Ryan to come to my house to fix my EM's! He's becoming a phenom!!! Nice work, Ryan!

#582 8 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

my Swinger arc-o-points is scoring appropriately!!!

*anonther non-functional animated gif*

Aw, geez. Here:

https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/skrillexfan.gif?w=780

#583 8 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

At this rate, I am going to have to hire Ryan to come to my house to fix my EM's! He's becoming a phenom!!! Nice work, Ryan!

Thanks, Todd. All it took was an entire evening of staring at that dern diagram!

KevinHart_(resized).jpgKevinHart_(resized).jpg

#584 8 years ago

I've got a small problem on my Captain Kidd that Ryan would be more than welcome to help try to fix.

#585 8 years ago

I don't know if anyone else noticed the new image uploader but it doesn't seem to be accepting gifs which is disappointing.

#586 8 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

I don't know if anyone else noticed the new image uploader but it doesn't seem to be accepting gifs which is disappointing.

I've noticed that all my ani-gif's have been converted to static .png files. I've written Robin a pouty email. We'll see if he dignifies it with a response or if I'm stuck in immobile-image purgatory.

#587 8 years ago

awesome! thanks for sharing. I am sure it happens, but I suspect I would spend years diagnosing and doubting myself before thinking that it wasn't me it was the manufacturer that had done it wrong..lol

#588 8 years ago
Quoted from mark532011:

awesome! thanks for sharing. I am sure it happens, but I suspect I would spend years diagnosing and doubting myself before thinking that it wasn't me it was the manufacturer that had done it wrong..lol

Ha-ha! Thank you, Mark, and I can sympathize with those feelings of self-doubt. As you saw, I thought it WAS me at first and went with the manufacturer recommended wiring. When that didn't work I started trying to visualize what the diagram was actually suggesting might happen between all those linked arms. It just didn't make sense as I traced it out. I just hope this might help fellow Swinger/Fun-Fest owners. There are (potentially) 10,000 of them out there.

#589 8 years ago

So far I have only looked in detail at one EM (Bon Voyage) and I can assure you that both the manual and the schematic have numerous errors. Some of those can drive you crazy if they are right at the same spot of something you are looking at. One example: two score motor switches with the same label designation on the schematic.

These were all made in the days before computers. All of the documentation was typed up on a typewriter, and the drawings were all done by hand. So it was easy to make mistakes and there was no easy way to correct errors, that is if they bothered to do much proofreading.

#590 8 years ago

Just a couple of things. I spotted this today on the EM Pinball Facebook page and couldn't resist reposting here:

artQuestionMark_(resized).jpgartQuestionMark_(resized).jpg

Ha-ha! Looks like the playfield was a little beat-up. Nevertheless, make that...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...(potentially) 10,000 of them out there...

...more like 9,999-ish.

Also, for those as worried about...

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

...my exquisitely curated animated gifs...

...as I am, I received an undeservedly nice email reply from Robin today in response to my...

...which went like this:

"Hi Ryan,

Ouch, sorry this is a known limitation of the uploader. I wanted to fix this before going live, but other stuff caught up with me. It is on the "urgent" list, so I hope to fix this soon.

Happy new year for you and your family, Ryan!

Cheers,
Robin"

*phew*

Happy New Year Swinger Restore Family! You guys all rock!
-Ryan

#591 8 years ago

P.S. For the optimists who thought this might be a salvagable playfield at a later date...

artQuestionMark2_(resized).jpgartQuestionMark2_(resized).jpg

Heh-heh...sigh.

#592 8 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

P.S. For the optimists who thought this might be a salvagable playfield at a later date...
artQuestionMark2_(resized).jpg
Heh-heh...sigh.

That's savable. Little bondo, some sanding, a bit of paint work... totally a nice weekend restore project for someone!

#593 8 years ago

Happy New Year to all! For lack of a better place I'm putting this post here since there's a very extensive discussion of Williams score reel restoration. I'm beginning (again) a restoration project on a 1795 Williams Little Chief. This machine was close to working properly years ago, but has suffered some neglect, and prior to any extensive playfield or cabinet rework I wanted to get the thing working completely. First thing I found was that it was not resetting properly, and while looking into that, it seemed that the score reels were not working smoothly, so my assumption is that this needs to be addressed first. While working on the first reel (Player 1 10's, probably the most used reel), I found the following: there is a pin on the bottom of the ratchet lever that rides in a slot in the base of the reel. This pin has worn to the point of being half gone (could not get a decent close-up picture), causing the lever to wobble or not track smoothly. The only real fix I can imagine is a new part, but I wonder if anybody has attempted to either replace the pin with a new glued in piece of plastic, or perhaps a small screw? I may try to find a replacement part, but if none are available.. Thanks for any ideas!

Bill...

0104161929_(resized).jpg0104161929_(resized).jpg

#595 8 years ago

Good stuff going on here

#596 8 years ago

Oops! Dyslexic fingers! Should have read 1975! I found some used reels on Ebay, so the immediate problem is resolved. Still interested in knowing if anybody has successfully repaired parts such as this.

1 week later
#597 8 years ago

I posted images of the Swinger and Fun Fest back-glasses on a topic about Christian Marche today:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/somebody-else-hates-christian-marche-art-as-much-as-me/page/2#post-2908909

(Don't judge the topic by the title, it's actually a good one)

... and noticed on the Swinger back-glass that the "Sweaty guy" either has Conjunctivitis or has been doing a bit of the Chronic.

#598 8 years ago

First off,

Quoted from PinballBillinFL:

For lack of a better place I'm putting this post here...

Hi, PinballBillinFL. I'm sorry your question here hasn't yielded a lot of results. I don't know the answer, or I would have chimed-in earlier. However, I'm guessing you'd have more luck starting a new topic on it. There are a TON of EM-knowledgable folks on Pinside who are willing to help. Heck, my fully-functioning Swinger is proof of that. Despite my hands being the only ones physically making repairs on ole' Swingy here (outside of my son's, of course), I COULD NOT have done it without the help of many. Maybe if you start your own thread and if people don't have to wade through five-hundred-some-odd posts in order to get to your question, the right person will have a better chance of finding it. Good luck!

- -- ----- -- -

Second off,

Quoted from girloveswaffles:

(Don't judge the topic by the title, it's actually a good one)

LOL

Quoted from girloveswaffles:

... and noticed on the Swinger back-glass that the "Sweaty guy" either has Conjunctivitis or has been doing a bit of the Chronic.

He's definitely hot and bothered about something. All that Swing[dance]ing I'm sure. *wink wink, nudge nudge, knowhatImean*

- -- ----- -- -

Third off,

Just wanted to let everyone know I recorded a guest spot on "The Pinball Podcast" today (Episode #72). I went pretty in-depth about Swinger in their "Featured Machine" section. I even wrote up a script so I could remember everything I wanted to talk about regarding Swinger's:

• Stats/History
• Layout
• Scoring
• Strategy

I'll post here again when the episode is live, as well as post the script in its entirety which outlines all the Swinger info listed above (but only after the podcast goes live). Anyhow, I wanted to let the "Swinger Restore Family" know ahead of time because:

A) You're mentioned on the podcast
B) There's a contest...but you're gonna have to be an early listener if you want to claim the prize. Good luck, guys!

Finally, I wanted to thank Pecos for his encouragement to share my new-found Swinger knowledge. We've been chatting privately for a while and I was telling him a few features on Swinger. His response was something to the effect of, "You need to share this knowledge with everyone." So, if any of you manages to stay awake for my thorough Swinger outline, you can thank Pecos. For anyone who is lulled to slumber by my riveting documentation, I'll take credit for that.

Laters,
Ryan

P.S. And now, time to test if Robin's got the animated gif bug worked out yet:

sally-yes_(resized).pngsally-yes_(resized).png

Edit: Doesn't look like it.

#599 8 years ago

Hey, no worries! I did consider starting a new thread, but since this one was active, I took a chance on it. I'm compiling a bunch of questions and some status and will more than likely start a thread soon.

Anyway, I want to thank you for sharing your trials and tribulations here; it gave me the confidence to go ahead and do more than just poke around. I found some reels on Ebay (DUH! should have checked there first!) which allowed me to fix the one very worn part; the others (so far) have been much better. I have finished the player 1 and player 2 reels, and they seem much better, though I have not yet tweaked the switches properly - there 1 is one that seems to think it's at zero constantly. The parts for the 3rd player set have been cleaned and are ready to go back together. All in all, decent progress.

Again, thanks to all for this great resource!

#600 8 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

First off,

*wink wink, nudge nudge, knowhatImean*
-

Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge, Grin Grin! SAY NO MORE!

... but enough of this "Idle" Chatter.

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