Just picked up a Williams Suspense. I love the design of this pin!!! It only appears to have one issue, but it is a big one. Note that this is one of those unique Williams games where bonus carries over from player to player or ball to ball until collected. The issue is that the game plays 100% until bonus is collected. As soon as it is collected, the game end sequence is triggered, flippers / pops, etc. go dead. Even ball 1 can result in end of game.

I'm normally a Gottlieb guy so flying blind here. Any recommendations on where to start in tracing this issue? I'll report back with developments but I would appreciate any suggestions so that I am not totally in the dark on where to start. Thanks!

Oh yeah, I have already reviewed the manual and you are right, there is A LOT of information. Because the bonus can be passed between players it makes diagnosis a bit more complex, with more factors to consider than a regular game. It seems like the bonus unit & relays are tied in with so many other functions on the game due to the unique way it handles bonus. That's why I was asking if anyone had pointers on where to start. It seems like a pretty unique issue. Never seen anything quite like it. Thanks for your thoughts.

I have to step away for a little bit but I'll hollar when I get back. Thanks for the insight / follow-up questions and offers to help!!

OK I'm back and I did some more expirementation. Point of clarification, it isn't the Collect Bonus that triggers end of game, it is the spin the wheel to possibly collect bonus. Whether you land on build bonus or collect bonus in the roulette wheel, game over. As soon as the wheel spins in 1 or 2 player game over.

No, standard game over.

Great, I'll try that and hit you up if I am still stuck. Can't thank you enough for the generous offer to help!!

Alright, it is looking like the coin relay. Blocking that brings me to normal play. I'm going to start looking deeper. If you are up for a quick chat HowardR I'd welcome the insight. I'll PM you.

Progress!!!! I found a switch on the coin relay that was barely making contact and should have been open by default. Fixed that, now I can cycle through balls and spin the wheel, but game over as soon as I have any bonus in the bank. As soon as I advance bonus beyond base value and spin, game over. Also, looks like a couple of the switches on the roulette wheel can trigger game over (a 300 and a 50). Still poking at it.

Latest update. Sorting through more issues and new findings!!! I was able to have a couple friends help me troubleshoot. Seeking advice on where to go next.

We have traced a new potential thread for origin of the problem. We discovered that most of the ball in play lights were burnt out. So it wasn't stepping immediately from ball 1 to game over. Certain units (the 300 / 100 in particular) are advancing balls when activated. The ball index relay is staying energized when it shouldn't be on activation of these units + the ball count unit is pulsing in the same circumstance. That explains why we went from game ending on every spin (until I fixed the coin unit) to a scenario where spinning the wheel would sometimes result in a game over, but not always... as the wheel may trigger the 50 point unit, which is not triggering ball count malfunctions. Also, bonus is in 100 increments, which supports my observation that having bonus in the bank causes a game over.

tldr; scoring 300 points or 100 points advances ball count.

So where to go from here? I already went over the scoring motor and couldn't find any issues, though I could focus more on that I suppose, cleaning every contact, etc. Nothing immediately apparent though. No errant wires or bent switches. Any advice on where else to look is welcome. Thanks!!

Agreed, trying to avoid that if at all possible.

Right, I recall some odd behavior here like it being energized after drain / game over but let me do a sanity check on that and see which conditions cause it to stay energized. I had someone in the head shouting things out while I tested the playfield so I will ask him.

Can do! I may not get to this today but will let you know.

Thanks again so much for the help!!!

OK back on that horse! I moved the pin out of the shop and to my house as it is much easier to have access to here.... and good news! I solved my core issue. I still have another issue: I can only start 2 player games, but I will pick that up in a different thread I suppose. Thanks HowardR for the guidance. Here was the final solution in summary:

1) The coin relay had a switch N/O switch that was closed (See comment above)
2) The game over relay plate didn't move freely. This may or may not have been contributing to the problem but it definitely needed reseated.
3) The outhole relay had a M&B switch that was closed on both sides...or at least dangerously close to closed, enough to trigger ball advances. (See screenshot).

Now on to the only 2 player on start of game issue and double bonus not working... Thin I think I'm 100%
Capture-suspense-outhole-relay (resized).PNG