Super Star
Williams, 1972Do the wires on your score motor match the schematic? A lot of mine do not, and Index even has an extra leaf and jumper.
One example: the wires on Index-D were reversed, with the BLU-W on top and O-G under, with the jumper in between.
Quoted from currieddog:Do the wires on your score motor match the schematic? A lot of mine do not, and Index even has an extra leaf and jumper.
One example: the wires on Index-D were reversed, with the BLU-W on top and O-G under, with the jumper in between.
Is there an issue with the proper operation and functionality of the machine beyond the perceived wire colors?
I remember an issue with super star as the ball would get stuck in the saucer hole because the drop target reset timing was too close to the saucer hole firing.
Dave, now that you mention it, I do recall that issue. There was a college town arcade that I frequented way back that had a superstar and I remember going in and seeing that superstar machine shut off more than once or twice because the ball was stuck in the saucer behind the upraised drop target. LOL.
Quoted from phil-lee:Is there an issue with the proper operation and functionality of the machine beyond the perceived wire colors?
Yes, otherwise it's not something I'd worry about. I bought it as a DOA, and am currently trying to get it to stop trying to reset steppers, among other things, so I can begin to figure out what else is going on. The first thing that grabbed my attention when looking at switches on the score motor was that many did not match the schematic. The wires on Index D and A and B don't match; on A and B it doesn't matter but D is a M/B and the upper sw. is motor run. There was also an extra leaf and jumper in there.
Quoted from pinballdaveh:I remember an issue with super star as the ball would get stuck in the saucer hole because the drop target reset timing was too close to the saucer hole firing.
The Eject relay, which is tied into a number of other things, isn't firing but I can't begin to work on that til it starts correctly.
Quoted from pinballdaveh:What step of the reset sequence are you working on?
haha, I'm not entirely sure. I have switches blocked because the Bonus Unit, BCU, Credit unit, Score reset relay are all running like mad otherwise. Eject was too. That's why the focus on ensuring that the score motor is correct.
1st I have to ask are ALL Jones plugs inserted properly? Put the steppers in a zero position, this is usually shown on schematics.
Turn machine on or have someone do it for you and watch one stepper. Is it fully advancing to the next rivet? Is the Player unit back at start or moving?
Does the machine show a game over light. Are all of the contacts on the Hold and game over relay adjusted?
If the switches on the score motor don't match schematic look at them closely. Does it appear to be a hack? Different or cleaner switches among the rest?
Jones plugs? ahahaha, jk. One stepper was off on rivets, but I would still like to hear from an owner about the SM. It's all factory, the wire colors are correct, but some are in the wrong places.
I can't figure this machine out; it has no chimes, but there is no 'ghosting' on the cabinet and no old wires, and the original three screws from the factory are in place. The PF and BG are worn, but I'm wondering if they were swapped in because nobody would play that much with no chimes.
Interesting. I know you’re an experienced EM guy, so I won’t ask dumb questions like whether you’re counting the switch stacks from the right end 
No chimes makes me think it may have been an export machine? Or a custom config to run quiet? I have seen references to machines with no chimes before. It’s usually from someone looking for a chime unit
Any chance this is the add a ball version that someone swapped the replay backglass into?
Just trying to think of why the schematic wouldn’t match. I’ve found the Williams documentation to be very good.
Good luck,
Dave
Hi currieddog +
"Chimes" - many operators in (Europe) Germany did not like chimes - often they ordered Pins without chimes (and got them a bit cheaper) --- in Europe we may have to pay up to some 120 to 150 Dollars for an old chime. See here https://www.chimeunit.com/chime-units (new chimes, replacements) --- read https://www.chimeunit.com/about_us ...
I am concerned about post-6 (hmm - what is "bought as a DOA") - extra-leaf and a jumper - and wires at motor-cam-Index-Switch-D exchanged - on the Self-Hold-Switch of the motor ??? - also mentioned in Post-1 ... did an preowner do weird, multiple hacks ? Greetings Rolf
Quoted from currieddog:Jones plugs? ahahaha, jk. One stepper was off on rivets, but I would still like to hear from an owner about the SM. It's all factory, the wire colors are correct, but some are in the wrong places.
I can't figure this machine out; it has no chimes, but there is no 'ghosting' on the cabinet and no old wires, and the original three screws from the factory are in place. The PF and BG are worn, but I'm wondering if they were swapped in because nobody would play that much with no chimes.
Do the switches that run the chimes appear correct on the 1000, 100 and 10 point relays? Wire colors match the manual/schematic?
Some games back in the 70s had a jones plug for the wiring for the chimes, so the motor board could be removed without having to deal with the chimes, but I don't know if this is one of them. I've only played the game, never worked on it.
Quoted from dgAmpGuy:Any chance this is the add a ball version that someone swapped the replay backglass into?
Just trying to think of why the schematic wouldn’t match. I’ve found the Williams documentation to be very good.
It has replay/AAB/novelty options. There are contradictions between the manual and schematic as well.
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:did an preowner do weird, multiple hacks ? Greetings Rolf
One of many odd things here, Rolf; everything looks factory.
Hi currieddog
I am stumped - many Williams Pins (I do not want to say "All") do have the outmost switch on the INDEX-Cam as an three-bladed Make-and-Brake-Switch - its "Make-Part of the Switch" beeing the "establishing Self-Hold-Current to the motor". I love this fact - whenever I want the motor to do an turn of 180 degrees (when testing stuff in the Pin): I gently press the topmost switchblade on Cam-INDEX down a bit and let go --- the motor is nice and makes a turn of 180 degrees.
When You do have "in reality in the pin it is wired other than shown in the Schematics" - You must have encountered an HACK - can You ask the pre-owner about it ? Greetings Rolf
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:When You do have "in reality in the pin it is wired other than shown in the Schematics" - You must have encountered an HACK - can You ask the pre-owner about it ? Greetings Rolf
I changed the wires on Ind-D, Rolf, because there was no way it could work with the 'motor run' sw. not on top. Can't find previous owner because it was a donation to a pinball museum, which is where I got it. But as I said above, everything does look factory.
Hi currieddog
I do not like what we see in my JPG - from the ipdb-schematics of Space Mission "Due to ..." --- some wires in my Space Mission may have other color than indicated in the schematics. In the ipdb-schematics "Super Star" I do not see such text stamped on (Due to ...).
In post-15 You write "... contradictions between the manual and the schematic ..." - can You name some ?
I see in the schematics "Super Star has a Game-Relay" - I feel very uncomfortable with such pins - hard to help - also it is a "Balls to Play" type of pin (I feel uncomfortable). It is better I just stay "interested reader". Greetings Rolf
0Sp-Mi-Work-47 (resized).jpgQuoted from rolf_martin_062:"... contradictions between the manual and the schematic ..." - can You name some ?
One that stood out right off is that it should have 3 chimes, and the schematic shows that. The manual does not show a wire going to a chime for 10 pt, and has the wrong color for the wire that should and the one that goes to the Match unit (both would O).
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