(Topic ID: 200731)

Williams Super Flite bonus relay locks on. NEED SCHEMATIC HELP


By ReallifePin

2 years ago



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  • 12 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by MD_Pinball_Dude
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IMG_0423 (resized).JPG
bonus relay (resized).jpg

#1 2 years ago

Just got a 1974 Williams Super Flite that the score motor keeps running with the bonus relay locking on. I can't figure out what is causing it..

I had a brief moment when it did reset and played a game completely normal. I haven't
been able to get anywhere since. I have checked 4 advance bonus switches and none are closed. The bonus relay is 5 normally open switches. All switches seem correct without loose connections.
I am still working on this issue but if you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them. If I find a solution I'll post an update.

Thanks.

EDIT: Please take a look t the schematic section I've added. For some reason, the bonus relay locks on as soon as machine is turned on (if outhole switch is closed. I feel like I'm closing in on the issue but I feel like I'm missing/misunderstanding something in this section. THANK YOU!!

bonus relay (resized).jpg

#2 2 years ago

Do you have the schematic? If not: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2452

I would guess either a stuck switch or score motor switch 6A needs to be looked at.

#3 2 years ago

Thanks for the reply.

I found a similar post and I'm going to see which switch is causing the issue and work back from there.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/help-with-williams-lucky-ace-1974-bonus-keeps-running#post-3717528

#4 2 years ago

Have you checked the coin door switches?

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from bonzo71:

Have you checked the coin door switches?

I have not. I'll take a look... thanks for the idea.

#6 2 years ago

Hi ReallifePin
When we start a new game the Ball is sitting in the Outhole between the flipper-bats. And the ball does close a switch mounted on the underneath side of the playfield. When the ball is kicked over to the shooter-alley - when the ball leaves the Outhole: The mentioned switch opens.

Toggle-off the pin, unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - take the ball out, lift the playfield and secure it lifted. With a finger simulate "Ball is in the Outhole" - watch the switch - see it closed (?) --- take Your finger away and watch the switch --- does the switch truely opens ?
Do not only look at the two long blades --- ALSO look at the short studs where the wires are soldered-on --- a drop of solder fallen there and making faulty contact ? Or a doghair crap of wire fallen there ? Or one of the short studs bent and making faulty contact ? Greetings Rolf

1 week later
#7 2 years ago

I added a section of schematic to the first post. The bonus relay locks on as soon as the game is powered up if the outhole switch is closed. How I read the schematic, it looks like the outhole switch is the only NO switch in the circuit so it should complete the circuit but why? Once the bonus relay locks on, the score motor continues to run. What am I missing?

#8 2 years ago

So the bonus unit is trying to count down to zero. There is a switch stack on the bonus unit coil side. When the bonus unit drops to zero the switch makes contact. If it doesn't it will never zero out and keep running. Check the switch and make sure it has contact. Here is a pic of a similar stepper. Examine switch stack with power off and manually step up and down the unit and check for proper contact.

IMG_0423 (resized).JPG

#9 2 years ago

Hi ReallifePin
The schematics You show in post-1 has on the right hand side a switch drawn closed named "Game-Over-Relay" - it is a switch on the "Powerside-Connection" --- in post-7 You write "Bonus-Relay locks-on when the pin is powered-up" --- does this means AAA: When You toggle-on the main power switch ? - or BBB: After toggling on when You then press the left flipper-button ? - or CCC: When You then press the Replay-Button ?

When the Game-Over-Relay trips at a time: The pin changes from "in play" to "in Game Over".
When the Game-Over-Relay latches at a time: The pin changes from "Game Over" to "in play".
I made me a mnemonic help: The word LATCH consists of 5 letters - the word TRIP consists of 4 letters --- four is "5 less one" --- the latch coil armature has one nylon ladder mounted - "one less one" is zero --- therefore (mnemonic aid): The trip armature has zero nylon ladders mounted.
Test-DDD - please toggle-off the pin - look in the cabinet for the Game-Over-Relay with two coils mounted on the relay. Do "latch" the Game-Over-Relay (means You press the armature having the nylon ladder mounted) --- then toggle-on - nothing shall happen. Then You press the left flipper button and You MUST see the Game-Over-Relay TRIP (((At the same time: The Lock-Relay pulls-in and stays pulling))).
Please do Test-DDD --- IF (if, if) the Game-Over-Relay does NOT trip: Toggle-off the pin - manually TRIP the Game-Over-Relay --- then toggle-on and press the left flipper-button --- what is the Bonus-Relay doing ?

When we are nice and friendly to the pin: We play through all the players / all the balls - at end of every ball the bonus-ladder is counted down to Zero - therefore the bonus-ladder (also) is counted down at end of the last ball just before reaching Game-Over.
Please be helpful (toggle-off the pin) - manually step-down the bonus-ladder - step it down to Zero-Position. This makes a switch to open - the switch in post-1, JPG, left hand side : "Bonus Unit open at Zero Position". Then toggle-on, press the left flipper button, start a game - WHAT is the Bonus-Relay doing ? Greetings Rolf

#10 2 years ago

Thanks so much for your responses. I'll take a close look this afternoon and update then.

1 year later
#11 8 months ago
Quoted from ReallifePin:

Thanks so much for your responses. I'll take a close look this afternoon and update then.

Apologies for bumping an old post, but did you figure out the culprit to the bonus relay locking on? I have the *exact* same issue my Williams Super Flight. Many thanks!

#12 8 months ago
Quoted from ivanx:

Apologies for bumping an old post, but did you figure out the culprit to the bonus relay locking on? I have the *exact* same issue my Williams Super Flight. Many thanks!

My Williams Big Game did this a couple of times and I finally tracked it to the bonus lane switch being stuck "ON". The ball rail was up, but the switch was stuck in the down position.

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