Williams Star Pool ball count advances to end game.....SOLVED

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#1 6 years ago

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Sonora70

Pinside member

Elizabethtown, KY

9y 45,550 664 22

Stumped. A friend has a Star Pool and it has started this problem. After pressing the start button the game will "generally" complete the start up and kick a ball into the shooter lane. After the first ball drains it resets the playfield but cycles through all the remaining balls to end the game. It appears to be having a problem completing the reset for the next ball and rarely kicks the ball into the shooter lane. I've checked the outhole switches, ball index relay switches, visually inspected score motor switches 1B and 2B, player reset relay and extra ball relay. I have also visually inspected the ball count unit and coin unit. I'm getting continuity across the switches (open or closed) on the ball count unit. I know that it is not uncommon to get continuity across open switches on relays, but this seems odd to me. I suspect it is a switch problem on the score motor however the schematic (tough to follow as I'm using the one on the IPDB site) shows switches 1B and 2B. I have the motor board out of the cabinet so that I can get a good look at them and they seem correct.

Post last edited 6 years ago.

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#3 6 years ago

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Sonora70

Pinside member

Elizabethtown, KY

9y 45,550 664 22

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:
Hi Sonora70
I do not own the pin - I do not know the pin --- I look at the ipdb-stuff. Before getting into trouble-shooting I would like to get answers from You to make sure I understand the functionality of the pin and I understand the fault.
From the ipdb-stuff I believe "Every new ball given starts with the Bonus-Ladder 'one bonus given for free' " is this true ? - When You start a new game and the pin kicks-out the first ball - is the Bonus set to ONE-Bonus given ? Please write about.
Assuming "always ONE Bonus given" --- You play the first ball and You make some points and You make some more Bonus --- then You loose the ball - ball enters the Outhole - pin steps down the Bonus-Ladder - the Outhole-Relay pulls-in and the Score-Motor is running and the pin steps to next ball on the Ball-Count-Unit --- question: Does the Bonus-Ladder steps up to ONE-Bonus given --- then faulty steps down to Zero-Bonus --- then again stepping on the Ball-Count-Unit, Bonus-Ladder steps up to ONE-Bonus given --- then faulty steps down to Zero-Bonus and on and on ? Please give a detailled description.
IF (if, if) the fault happens as "described above" - please try: When loosing the first ball --- do NOT let the BALL roll into the Outhole --- use a FINGER - manually close the Switch in the Outhole --- Bonus is counted down - the pin steps to next ball - NOW, YOU take away Your finger - what happens ?
I happen to like to "work" on schematics - so I have taken the ipdb-PDF, made single pages of JPG-format, put together the snippets of schematics into an continuous JPG-Schematics of 3.8 MB data --- then made an PDF out of this (result is 3.3 MB data PDF). I do not post such mega MB data in pinside --- I then used the free "Orpalis PDF Reducer" and show its Output here (some 230 KB data). IF (if, if) You want me to send to You the 3.8 MB and/or 3.3 MB data files: Write me an personal message with an EMail-Address and I will send the stuff to You. Greetings Rolf

Thanks Rolf. I see what you're saying. I'll take a look at it and report back. I would like a copy of the schematic you made. I'll send a pm.

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#4 6 years ago

OP

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Sonora70

Pinside member

Elizabethtown, KY

9y 45,550 664 22

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:
Hi Sonora70
I do not own the pin - I do not know the pin --- I look at the ipdb-stuff. Before getting into trouble-shooting I would like to get answers from You to make sure I understand the functionality of the pin and I understand the fault.
From the ipdb-stuff I believe "Every new ball given starts with the Bonus-Ladder 'one bonus given for free' " is this true ? - When You start a new game and the pin kicks-out the first ball - is the Bonus set to ONE-Bonus given ? Please write about.
Assuming "always ONE Bonus given" --- You play the first ball and You make some points and You make some more Bonus --- then You loose the ball - ball enters the Outhole - pin steps down the Bonus-Ladder - the Outhole-Relay pulls-in and the Score-Motor is running and the pin steps to next ball on the Ball-Count-Unit --- question: Does the Bonus-Ladder steps up to ONE-Bonus given --- then faulty steps down to Zero-Bonus --- then again stepping on the Ball-Count-Unit, Bonus-Ladder steps up to ONE-Bonus given --- then faulty steps down to Zero-Bonus and on and on ? Please give a detailled description.
IF (if, if) the fault happens as "described above" - please try: When loosing the first ball --- do NOT let the BALL roll into the Outhole --- use a FINGER - manually close the Switch in the Outhole --- Bonus is counted down - the pin steps to next ball - NOW, YOU take away Your finger - what happens ?
I happen to like to "work" on schematics - so I have taken the ipdb-PDF, made single pages of JPG-format, put together the snippets of schematics into an continuous JPG-Schematics of 3.8 MB data --- then made an PDF out of this (result is 3.3 MB data PDF). I do not post such mega MB data in pinside --- I then used the free "Orpalis PDF Reducer" and show its Output here (some 230 KB data). IF (if, if) You want me to send to You the 3.8 MB and/or 3.3 MB data files: Write me an personal message with an EMail-Address and I will send the stuff to You. Greetings Rolf

Rolf, had about 5 minutes this afternoon to take a look. Yes, it gives a "free" bonus at startup. I did not however look to see if it continues to give the bonus, take it away, give, take away, ect....

When the ball drains, the bonus steps down then it tries to reset everything. Everything resets except it never kicks the ball back into the shooting lane. After looking at the schematic you sent (thanks!) I wonder if score motor switch 4A may need to be cleaned/adjusted. This pulses the ball release coil possibly allowing it to completely reset? Thoughts?

This evening when I get home I plan to take a look at this switch. I'll also take a closer look at what happens with the bonus unit.

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#5 6 years ago

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Sonora70

Pinside member

Elizabethtown, KY

9y 45,550 664 22

Another observation I forgot to add, it adds 100 points each time it tries to reset.

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#6 6 years ago

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Sonora70

Pinside member

Elizabethtown, KY

9y 45,550 664 22

Another critical observation, the advance unit is not resetting, it's stepping down to give the bonus but it's not resetting back to the position to give the 1000 point that should happen at the beginning of the ball.

Situation is getting a little worse, it is not always finishing the reset sequence when starting a new game.

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#8 6 years ago

OP

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Sonora70

Pinside member

Elizabethtown, KY

9y 45,550 664 22

Quoted from bflagg:
Check the switch that makes contact when the bonus unit zeroes out. This pic isn't Star Pool but you get the idea. There is a switch stack that operates via the post on the wheel. Make sure those switches are making contact when the bonus unit is at zero. If it doesn't the game will never reset, move to the next ball or kick a ball out. I had this problem with my Star Pool after I went through the game completely. Stated up first time, drained and wouldn't reset or kick the ball.
A simple switch adjustment fixed it.

Thanks for the tip. I have checked that switch...even shorted across it and still not results. I think this leads me to a switch on the score motor. I'm going to Staples to have a full size schematic printed so that I can hopefully be able to figure this one out.

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#10 6 years ago

OP

???

Sonora70

Pinside member

Elizabethtown, KY

9y 45,550 664 22

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:
Hi Sonora70
I am interested to "work" on Your Star Pool problem --- in post-4 You write "When the (very first) ball drains ... NO KICK-OUT of the ball to the shooter alley". In post-1 You mention ... instead of kicking out a new ball the pin cycles through the balls (stepping the Ball-Count-Unit) to "Game-Over".
Please write what situation You have by now --- especially about (Yes or no) "The pin cycles through the balls (stepping the Ball-Count-Unit) to 'Game-Over' ". Greetings Rolf

When the start button is pressed to begin a new game, everything resets except....after the advance unit counts down it should then go back to show a "free" 1000 points and the ball should then be kicked into the shooter lane. This is not occurring. It may cycle several times and then finally reset.

After it finally resets showing ball 1, I can hit several points then drain the ball. At this point, the machine tries to reset to ball 2 however it doesn't, it just continues trying and then goes to game over after cycling through each balls 2,3,4,and 5.

I've tried to figure out the reason why the advance unit isn't going back into the starting position. This must happen before a game can be played.

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#12 6 years ago

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Sonora70

Pinside member

Elizabethtown, KY

9y 45,550 664 22

Problem solved........last night I began looking again at exactly what was happening each time the ball drained. I noticed the outhole relay was pulling but not staying pulled long enough to complete the reset process. I then began "helping" the outhole relay close and the reset completed correctly. At this point I knew it was a timing issue usually related to a score motor switch. Using the new schematic (thanks again Rolf) I had printed I was able to follow the outhole relay path from C13 to C2 (per the schematic) and found that score motor switch 5B needed to be cleaned and adjusted.

By Sonora70

6 years ago

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