(Topic ID: 301251)

Williams Soccer

By tcw16505

2 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 13 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by tcw16505
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

pasted_image (resized).png
open_coil (resized).jpg
1 point issue (resized).jpg
Jet Bumper Coils (resized).jpg
One Point Relay (resized).jpg
Red_Special (resized).jpg
advance_relay (resized).jpg
blue_red_advance (resized).jpg
Motor Control (resized).jpg
Eject Issue (resized).jpg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider tcw16505.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#1 2 years ago

I see some similarities in this post.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-soccer-blue-keeps-scoring#post-5839501

What I am experiencing is if Blue team is selected at the beginning of the game (Blue Team Possession lite is lit) and the ball goes into the Blue Team Score hole it will not eject and continue to score. But if you get the ball in the Red Team Score hole it will score once and eject. If at the beginning of the game the Red team is selected (Red Team Possession lite is lit) and the ball goes into the Red Team Score hole it will not eject and continue to score. But if you get the ball in the Blue Team Score hole it will score once and eject.

The selection Switches (Team Possession) are clearly are working, and I have checked to make sure the two N.O. contacts in both ejector holes are gapped properly.

I kind of wish they drew both eject coils on the drawing. Only showing the one might be confusing me more. Anyway I am kind of guessing by elimination it could be a problem with the Control Motor contacts shown as 85 and 91, also Contact C, N.O., 2B.

As it turns out It was the Control Motor contacts. I decided to take a break from writing and found C, N.O., 2B was not N.O. and another was not closing on Index, IB I think. Anyway all is good and working now!

Eject Issue (resized).jpgEject Issue (resized).jpgMotor Control (resized).jpgMotor Control (resized).jpg

1 week later
#2 2 years ago

This seems to be all that is left to repair on this game to get it to 100%... will see.

Schematic
https://www.ipdb.org/files/2232/soccer_schematic.pdf

This is a nonworking machine being restored to function

Conditions
1. Game starts by default with the two Red Active Bumpers (Pop Bumpers) lit for 10 points.
If the Red team is selected by Red Team rollover the Red Active Bumpers (Pop Bumpers) remain lit for 10 points. When the lit Red Active Bumpers are struck, or the Advance Red When Lit" targets are actuated, they do not score 10 points, the Advance lamps that track the progress of the red team across the field do not advance. When the unlit Blue Active Bumpers are actuated, they score one point and when the "Advance Blue When Lit" target is struck it scores 1 Point.

2. As the game advances and the Blue Active Bumpers (Pop Bumpers) become lit for 10 points. When the lit Blue Active Bumpers are actuated, or the Advance Blue When Lit" targets are struck, they score 10 Points, the Advance lamps that track the progress of the blue team across the field advance towards their goal. When the unlit Red Active Bumpers are actuated, they score one point and when the "Advance Red When Lit" target is struck it scores 1 Point.

There is both an Advance and also a Red or Blue Advance relays. Along with a full schematic I have also included snapshots of Advance and also a Red or Blue Advance relays. I have re-cleaned and re-gaped these relays and it worked for a short time but now it is consistently back.

Update: What I have observed is when the Blue Active Bumpers (Pop Bumpers) become lit for 10 points and are actuated, the Advance Relay comes in and energizes the Blue Advance Coil. If I change possession to red nothing happens with the Advance Relay. If I manually close the Advance Relay the Red Advance Coil energizes.

Tom
advance_relay (resized).jpgadvance_relay (resized).jpgblue_red_advance (resized).jpgblue_red_advance (resized).jpg

#3 2 years ago

I found it in the Advance Re. circuit. I had to come back to the Possession relay (wire 63-2) and adjust again. The design of the 1964 version of Williams Interlocking Relay had a lot to be desired. The frame is a two piece design allowing the two coils to drift apart as the wood becomes less stable. the one piece eliminates that and assures the factors setting remain.

What's left? The lower left rollover "Red Special" does not light after the 11th Red Team goal is achieved. The lower right one works for the Blue team.

UPDATE: It was the rotating contactor in the Red Goal Unit. Somehow I missed cleaning this reel in my opening general clean up. It had a thick coating of hard grease. Who teaches these Techs? Its not like it a Rivet Contact on a disc in a Stepper Unit. These are a smooth Bakelite circuit board contact strips. A super light wipe is all that is needed to prevent long term tarnishing.

Tom

Red_Special (resized).jpgRed_Special (resized).jpg

#4 2 years ago

Back to report more problems. It worked perfectly for a few days, now when the active Bumpers (Pop Bumpers) are not lit (The print refers to these as Jet Bumper Coils), they should score one point (One Point Relay - G-15). Instead they score nothing, with no bell either. Back to the drawing... G-18,19

One Point Relay (resized).jpgOne Point Relay (resized).jpgJet Bumper Coils (resized).jpgJet Bumper Coils (resized).jpg
#6 2 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Check the Make/Break switches on the Possession relay
For a switch to work 3 things are necessary:
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening

I readjusted the contacts of the Possession relay. No change. With further investigation; I can't score with any 1 point targets of any type. This would include (2) Kicker Sws., (4) Stand Up Sws. & 1 or 2 Bumper Relays.

I disassembled the 1 point drum and cleaned everything. Still nothing.

1 point issue (resized).jpg1 point issue (resized).jpg
#9 2 years ago
It will score if I manually activated the 1 Point relay.

Quoted from pinballdaveh:

Check and clean the jones plug that has the 1 point relay circuit wire in it’s harness.

Super re-cleaned, no effect.

I checked and found the correct voltage was being applied to the coil. However the wire from the coil to the solder post was open. I mean what the heck right?

A new issue has now cropped up, about every third or forth time I am scoring a red goal (only) it will score multiple goals, like three or four of them. Never a dull moment I guess.

open_coil (resized).jpgopen_coil (resized).jpg
#11 2 years ago

HowardR ,

Thanks for the Tip on the alligator clip jumper procedure. I checked and found the correct voltage was being applied to the coil. However the wire from the coil to the solder post was open. See previous photo. I mean what the heck right?

A new issue has now cropped up, about every third or forth time I am scoring a red goal (only) it will score multiple goals, like three or four of them. Never a dull moment I guess.

There are 3 ways of scoring a goal so I will manually see if the occurs in all three. I am imagining a pair of contacts might be gapped to closely.

#13 2 years ago

It would score multiple goals in all three ways to score them. I noticed the Advance Stepper Unit was hesitating in its normal movement when this occurred, not really achieving the EOS as it should. I had cleaned the unit already but I hesitate to lubricate pivoting pins with anything. I put a very thin coating of Supper lube on the pivoting pins and this seems to have cleared the problem for now.

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider tcw16505.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-soccer-?tu=tcw16505 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.