Williams Serenade 1960 Startup Sequence

Does anyone happen to be familiar with the chain of events for the game start sequence on a 1960 Serenade. Mine keeps getting stuck with the 2nd player reset relay in the backbox firing endlessly in pulses of 5 (per the score motor turning endlessly). I've gone through this thing top to bottom, cleaned all the steppers, checked the switches, scrubbed the jones plugs... The second player score resets to zero as it should but then the relay keeps firing and nothing else happens. All the GI Lights also flutter faintly with the relay firing. They don't come on and stay on. This is the oldest pin I've ever worked on and have no idea if the GI is supposed to come on at start of game or always be on. Any help would be hugely appreciated.
Thanks!
Ryan

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#2 6 years ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member

I don't have the schematic. Do you?
Each score reel has a switch that tells the machine that it's on zero. Most likely one of those is out of adjustment.

#3 6 years ago

RPR

Yoreland

Pinside member

Quoted from HowardR:
I don't have the schematic. Do you?
Each score reel has a switch that tells the machine that it's on zero. Most likely one of those is out of adjustment.

Thanks, No I don't have the schematics. I adjusted one switch (the 100s place) which wasn't opening at 999. They do reset properly to 000 but the relay keeps firing while the coils on the reels stop at 0 (the reels report "0") and stop actuating but the relay doesn't.

#4 6 years ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from Yoreland:
Thanks, No I don't have the schematics.

I suggest you get one.

Quoted from HowardR:
Each score reel has a switch that tells the machine that it's on zero. Most likely one of those is out of adjustment.

You didn't say if you checked the 6 switches I mentioned. Any one of them out of adjustment would cause the problem you're seeing.

#5 6 years ago

RPR

Yoreland

Pinside member

Quoted from HowardR:
I suggest you get one.

You didn't say if you checked the 6 switches I mentioned. Any one of them out of adjustment would cause the problem you're seeing.

I just found the schematics on Mike Pacak's site. Just ordered it...

I checked all the switches on the reels. The zero position switches all open at zero as they should. All the others are working properly as well.
Thanks

#6 6 years ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from Yoreland:
I just found the schematics on Mike Pacak's site. Just ordered it...

When it comes in, post it here or even better at IPDB and we'll be able to diagnose the problem.

#7 6 years ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member

On another 2 player Williams game from your era, (Hollywood) the 2nd Player Score Reset relay is energized through the Reset relay. Does that relay stay energized, and if not, are its switches adjusted correctly?

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#8 6 years ago

RPR

Yoreland

Pinside member

Quoted from HowardR:
On another 2 player Williams game from your era, (Hollywood) the 2nd Player Score Reset relay is energized through the Reset relay. Does that relay stay energized, and if not, are its switches adjusted correctly?

Thanks Howard,
Yes. Upon pressing start, the Tilt relay trips, and Lock, Start, Coin and Reset energize and stay on.
I don't know what's tripping the tilt relay. All the tilt switches are open.

#9 6 years ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member

That other Williams game (Hollywood) had 3 Tilt relays: (1) a 1st Player Tilt relay, (2) a 2nd Player Tilt relay, and (3) a Tilt relay with 2 coils in it. Does that match what you have?

#10 6 years ago

RPR

Yoreland

Pinside member

Quoted from HowardR:
That other Williams game (Hollywood) had 3 Tilt relays: (1) a 1st Player Tilt relay, (2) a 2nd Player Tilt relay, and (3) a Tilt relay with 2 coils in it. Does that match what you have?

Great question, thanks for asking. Turns out there are three tilt relays. One is on the mech board. The other two (first and presumably second player tilt relays) are on the relay bank (whatever that is called where one coil resets all relays- I'll call it the "ka-chunk" bank). See attached pics. The label on the ka-chunk bank is scratched off where I assume the second player tilt relay is. As you can see the first player tilt relay keeps getting thrown. I took a pic of the relay cover I removed from the mech board showing the main Tilt trip and latch relay label.

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#11 6 years ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member