(Topic ID: 278515)

Williams San Francisco - replay and advance units

By amymcg

3 years ago


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  • 16 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by amymcg
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 years ago

Hello Everyone,

First of all, we are pinball newbies. We bought a 1964 Williams San Francisco from a pinball collector who had too many pins to revive and this was one of several he let go that was in need of work.

The game sort of works. It turns on, it tries to start and it sort of scores, but there are obviously some mechanical issues that we are sorting out.

All fuses are good, no burning smells

We do have a schematic, and we can solder.

Things we have done so far: Cleaned all the switches and tested all the coils with a multimeter, cleaned the replay stepper unit, it was totally gummed up and wouldn't move at all. Cleaned the ball count and advance stepper units. All the stepper units will move if I activate the solenoids by hand.

The first problem I'd like help with:
(This has been happening from before we started working on it), is that the advance unit solenoid A-23-600 stays open, so it tries to advance, but doesn't release for the cog to actually be moved. It will stay like this until the unit is powered down. Further - (and I think this is because the solenoid on the advance stepper is staying open) the replay unit is trying to advance instead of the advance unit.

I suspect that I may have re-assembled the replay unit incorrectly. Here is a picture of it with the replay wheel in the zero position. Where should those two posts be in relation to the switch leafs? I've been trying to find a picture of this, but can't find the exact same unit.

I can also see on the schematic that the Replay Stepper Unit appears to say underneath "Open at 1B R.P". I'm not sure what that is referring to, or if I'm reading it incorrectly, so I'm not sure exactly what I'm supposed to check to see if it's open.

I appreciate any help anyone can offer.

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#2 3 years ago

Here's the part of the schematic I was referring to

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#4 3 years ago

Let me go grab a picture of it from my Heat Wave...

#5 3 years ago
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#6 3 years ago

So does it do this when you turn on the machine? The A-23 600 coil stays energized?
It looks like all pathways to energize this coil are through a score motor switch pulse.

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

So does it do this when you turn on the machine? The A-23 600 coil stays energized?
It looks like all pathways to energize this coil are through a score motor switch pulse.

It does it as soon as I press the credit button to start a game, so the score motor goes and then it energizes.

#8 3 years ago

Ok, so it looks like mine is actually correct then.

#10 3 years ago

There is an end-of-stroke switch that closes -- in the top left of the picture. Not exactly sure where it is on the schematic, but make sure that is closing.

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

There is an end-of-stroke switch that closes -- in the top left of the picture. Not exactly sure where it is on the schematic, but make sure that is closing.

Replay Stepper: I'll take a look at that EoS on the replay unit tomorrow.

I see where the solenoid from the advance unit is being energized from the impulse part of the score motor on the schematic, but it's open, not closed when this is happening.

#12 3 years ago

Back again:

Relay stepper, end of strike wasn’t touching but I adjusted that. Not sure if it made any difference but there it is.

Advance stepper solenoid staying open: I can see the D Relay also staying open under the play field. This Coil was on my list of possibilities that may need replacing. It was also listed On a post it note from the previous owner as one that might be causing trouble. From the schematic I can see that this being energized deals with a certain area of the advance unit but I’m unsure of how to troubleshoot from here. I’m new to schematic reading so not sure what causes the D relay to energize to begin with.

#13 3 years ago

Working from memory here as a former SF owner, I believe the lettered relays A-E are energized/deenergized depending on the position of the arrow step unit in the back box. As the ball hits the green saucer or passive bumper the arrow moves left towards “A”, the purple saucer and passive bumper move it right towards “E”.

#14 3 years ago

Thanks pinheadpierre i was hoping you’d pop in here as I read your account of having this machine when I was searching the forum.

So I guess I can surmise, that there is some leaf that is misadjusted somewhere. Should the Lettered relays stay open until another one is triggered for left right movement?

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from amymcg:

Thanks pinheadpierre i was hoping you’d pop in here as I read your account of having this machine when I was searching the forum.
So I guess I can surmise, that there is some leaf that is misadjusted somewhere. Should the Lettered relays stay open until another one is triggered for left right movement?

I no longer have the schematics (and reading them in not my forte, though I have managed to nurse four non-working ems back to life). Find the “D” relay on the schematic and work through the associated circuits, making sure each switch is as it should be. Also keep ah eye out for any foreign objects causing a short (stray screws, washers, drops of solder, bent and unprotected tabs on switches and coils, etc) along the way.

1 week later
#16 3 years ago

Just updating. Was working with rolf_martin_062 to diagnose another issue, found Jones plugs from below plugged into wrong places in the head. The wire going to first player relay was instead going to the advance stepper unit.... *sigh* This issue is now resolved.

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