(Topic ID: 156815)

Williams Olympic Hockey inconsistent advance reset

By steviechs

8 years ago


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  • 31 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by steviechs
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#1 8 years ago

I have a 1972 Williams Olympic Hockey.

What's supposed to happen
The aim of the game is to move the puck from "center ice" 10 advances to score a goal. Once a goal has been scored, you can return the puck to center ice by hitting rollovers on the playfield to try and score again with the same ball. The puck will also reset to center ice when the outhole is hit. This is all controlled via a Increment/Decrement Stepper; the Advance unit.

The issue
After scoring a goal and hitting the playfiled rollovers, sometimes the reset occurs. Other times, it only steps back 1 or 2 spots. I'd say that the unit reset all the way back to '0' only 25% of the time. This only occurs when playing as Player 1 and with the playfield rollover switches. Player 2, which moves the puck and advance unit in the other direction, resets every time from the rollovers. The reset also works consistently when the outhole triggers regardless of player. The reset works at game start up.

I just finished cleaning the contacts and fingers for the Advance unit but no noticeable difference in reset performance. What else could be the cause? It's just odd that sometimes in Player 1 it resets, player 2 always does, and the outhole always resets.

#2 8 years ago

Hi Dont have that game, but sounds like maybe your player unit has issues? or something that controls signal to 1st and 2nd player switching? look for what controls the advance unit step up/down.

#3 8 years ago

In regards to what controls the advance unit step, the manual states

Switch B on rollover relay will pulse left or right advance coil until unit is at reset position (center ice).

When the reset problem occurs, the Rollover relay is only engaged long enough to reset 1 or 2 steps. But this Rollover relay is the same one that is engaged during the reset cycle by the Coin Relay and by the Outhole Relay. This is where I get confused; 3 different actions all energize the Rollover Relay and 2 work as expected.

#4 8 years ago

Your on the right track, you need to find the source switch involved, it prob needs re gapped. it could be a score motor switch, or one on the coin or outhole relay. the schematic would help here.

#5 8 years ago

The schematic is available on IPDB if you wanted to look?

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1709/Williams_1972_Olympic_Hockey_Instruction_Manual_Catalog_Supplement_JJ_and_Schematic_submitted_by_Bob_Bisceglia.pdf

Source switch

Is that in reference to the switch on the rollover relay or what triggers the relay?

#6 8 years ago

Hi steviechs
I show a snippet of the ipdb-schema. I think the fault is in the Advance-Unit - my "red stuff".

You write (post-1): ONLY at player-1 -> (red stuff) one side of the Unit is good - the other side is faulty. You write (post-1): ERRATIC fault. My question - please report: Is it "TRUE" erratic (?) or does it depend on "how many steps must be stepped towards "middle / center"" (?).
Here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1709&picno=30770 I see up to ten different position possible - please do a series of tests - EVERY test starts The unit has stepped three steps - therefore the "stepping back" must do three steps. Do this (3 step thing) several times -> do You have erratic (sometimes faulty) ? - or do You have "3 step thing ALWAYS WORKS" - or do You have "3 step thing NEVER WORKS ?

Then do several times "EVERY test starts a 7 step thing". Do this (7 step thing) several times -> do You have erratic (sometimes faulty) ? - or do You have "7 step thing ALWAYS WORKS" - or do You have "7 step thing NEVER WORKS ?

My "problem***" is - I do NOT see (yet): Does the "Rollover-Relay" pulse (?) - or does it "constantly pull" (?). Lets look at working "changing to next ball, Outhole-Relay driven" -> my "blue lines" -> Through closed "Outhole-Switch" -> Outhole-Relay starts pulling and locks-in -> "violet lines" -> at the end of a Score-Motor-Turn the SCM-5A switch opens and cuts the "Self-Hold-Circuitry of Outhole-Relay".
As the Outhole-Relay starts pulling -> "green line" -> through "still closed SCM-Index-A" and closed Outhole-Relay-Switch -> Rollover-Relay starts pulling -> "red lines" -> it establishes "Self-Hold-Circuitry" -> The "stepping towards MIDDLE of Advance-Unit" is not in the snippet of schema - it is pulsed by the turning Score-Motor - a switch stepped 5 times. If it is neccessary to step more than 5 steps (Our tests of 7 steps): The pulling Rollover-Relay lets the Score-Motor do a second turn (not in the snippet of schema).
If I understand correctly: The Rollover-Relay MUST be pulling all the times (to complete its duty). That means: When the wiper on the Advance-Unit moves from (lets say) Position-7 to pos-6 -> the wiper must touch pos-7 , moving (still touch pos-7) - coming to pos-6 -> now touching pos-7 is no longer needed, as the wiper now securely has contact to pos-6.
I one side (player-2) of Advance-Unit is adjusted properly and the other one (player-1) not: That explains "not working" - it does not explain "erratic" - erratic means (to me): a wire has broken-off a solder-lug - the end makes contact SOMETIMES YES - SOMETIMES-NO.
I suggest: Have a close look at the Unit - broken-off wire ? , Wiper-positioned having good contact ? dirt / oxidation ?

My problem***: 99.99 % I am sure "Rollover-Relay constantly pulls". Greetings Rolf

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#7 8 years ago

Rolf - Thanks for the detailed reply!

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Does the "Rollover-Relay" pulse (?) - or does it "constantly pull" (?)

The Rollover-relay constantly pulls. When a proper reset occurs, the coil is energized the entire time.

I will run a bunch of tests tonight from various stepped points to see where reset starts to break. In order to do this, I can only reset via the outhole relay as the playfield rollovers will continue to advance the unit instead of resetting.

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

I one side (player-2) of Advance-Unit is adjusted properly and the other one (player-1) not: That explains "not working" - it does not explain "erratic" - erratic means (to me): a wire has broken-off a solder-lug - the end makes contact SOMETIMES YES - SOMETIMES-NO.

I say erratic because it does reset from player 1 correctly occasionally. Your "SOMETIMES YES - SOMETIMES NO" sums up the experience. Because of that and a visual inspection, I've ruled out broken wires. I also have cleaned the bakelite rivets and wipers following Clay's cleaning steps.

There is a noticeable groove worn in the contacts. Mine are nowhere near as bad as this picture from a possibly related post, but perhaps this is my culprit making an inconsistent connection? I'll check tonight.

#8 8 years ago

Hi steviechs
You write (post-7) "can only reset via Outhole-Relay --- as the Playfield-Rollovers ADVANCE the Unit instead of resetting" - is this new ? do the Rollovers do this EVERY TIME ? ONLY on player-1 ? Do they "try to reset but then do advance" <-> "only, straight advance" <-> "Total-
Reset-but-then-advance" ? Do they advance just one step ? or advance many steps to top ? erratic amount of steps ?

As far as I understand (I might be wrong (?)) the contacts must stay close each to its neighbours - as the wiper moving over them MUST have contact with one -> with both -> with one - NEVER "no contact" - as No-contact cuts the "Self-Hold-Circuitry of the Rollover-Relay" -> Rollover-Relay lets go and itself opens its "Self-Hold-Switch" (mounted on the relay), my "encicled-red" switch with wires "Y-Blue" and "Blue-Black".
Please write about "You made a goal and ball rolls over the Rollovers for the pin to reset the Unit" - what happens ? Greetings Rolf

#9 8 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

as the Playfield-Rollovers ADVANCE the Unit instead of resetting" - is this new ? do the Rollovers do this EVERY TIME ?

Sorry about the confusion, this is the correct behavior. The playfield alley rollovers advance the puck towards the goal 1 step at a time until a goal is scored. Once a goal is scored, the rollover then acts as the mechanism to reset the puck to center ice.

The picture below might give you a better idea; it shows the left and right alley rollovers have text that reads "Start at Center Ice when lit". These only light once you have advanced 10 steps and scored a goal. In all other scenarios, these Advance the stepper.

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#10 8 years ago

Hi steviechs
great - just a confusion. Please look in the ipdb into the manual -> page-18 (ori-16) -> Roll-Over-Relay -> Switch-A -> then look at this switch in Your pin -> wires soldered-on (grab the wires and gently pull a bit) ? contacts clean ? switch closes securely when the relay is activated ?
Please look in the ipdb into the manual -> page-18 (ori-16) -> Roll-Over-Relay -> Switch-D -> then look at this switch in Your pin -> wires soldered-on (grab the wires and gently pull a bit) ? contacts clean ? switch closes securely when the relay is activated ?
Switch-A is the "Self-Hold-Switch (You see it in my JPG "encircled red"). Switch-D is not in my JPG - but the (ipdb) schema shows this switch at C-4. Both switches MUST securely close when the Relay is pulling.

Your picture in post-9, "encircled yellow" - these switches You see in my JPG -> "orange lines" the ball rolls over -> closes this switch (temporarily) -> Initial current can flow to the Rollover-Relay - the Rollover-Relay MUST pull-in (encircled red).
(JPG) Next to the "Left and Right side Rollover Switches" there is a switch named "Through-Switch" - not a good name (((NOT a GOTTLIEB-Through-Switch))) - the manual tells us on page-14 (ori-12): When the gate (playfield bottom-right) is open and the ball rolls through this open gate -> the switch in the shooter-alley does close the (open) gate --- a Williams-Through-Switch ...

Maybe it is easier when testing --- if You use the "open-Gate-feature" ?

Again: I see the Rollover-Relay pulling and keep-on-pulling: WHEN the wiper on the Advance-Unit "when beeing moved" ALWAYS HAS AT LEAST CONTACT WITH ONE CONTACT-POINT - so at some time the wiper has contact with "just one contact-point" - sometimes the wiper has contact to/with two contact-points. Greetings Rolf

#11 8 years ago

All wires checked out. Nothing broken, contacts look good and make solid contact.

Here are the results from my reset test. I was able to replicate these results by manually triggering the Rollover Relay. The number of list item corresponds to the number of steps I had advanced before doing a reset.

  1. Resets 100% of the time
  2. Resets 100% of the time
  3. Resets 100% of the time
  4. Resets 100% of the time
  5. Resets 100% of the time
  6. Resets 100% of the time
  7. Resets 100% of the time
  8. Resets 80% of the time. 2 of 10 times it stopped resetting at position #7
  9. Resets 30% of the time. Stopped at position #8 and #7.
  10. aka GOAL. Resets 20% of the time. Stopped at position #9 (80% of the fails) or #8 (20% of fails)

If the ball actually went into the drain, it seems to sit there long enough to keep the pull on the Rollover relay to make up for whatever non-contact must be occurring in the Advance Unit.

At this point it must either be misalignment on the advance unit, bad contacts, or something with the coil not engaging enough to move the unit fast enough to retain the energized rollover relay. I did not clean the coil sleeves when I originally cleaned the rivets/fingers - would this be a possible issue?.

When the reset fails, the fingers look to be in good contact with the rivets. I don't see any touching multiple rivets.

I will add a few images of the stepper with the fingers off so you can weigh in on the contact points.

#12 8 years ago

Advancing to #10, turning the game power off, power on, and starting a new game resets from #10 spot 100% of the time. Probably just muddying the water with this detail, but it's making me question where the real issue is. Perhaps this is working like the drain hole situation

#13 8 years ago

Narrowing it down !!

The reset succeeds if i keep pressure on the middle snow shoe of the advance unit that connects to lug #11. I'm pretty sure it's the groove in the middle ring of rivets at #10, #9, #8 that is causing intermittent contact. When I adjust the snow shoe slightly angled in or out to get it out of the groove it seems to work. I'm guessing when the unit is pulsing, the finger is bouncing around and not making contact 100% of the time.

I had success using my finger to apply the pressure. I tried taping the snowshoe down at the top of the bakelite to provide the same pressure but that caused issues stopping the unit at the lower numbers.

Am I going to be soldering rivets per https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/solid-state-guy-needs-help-with-an-em ?

#14 8 years ago

After a quick cleanup, the grooves don't look near as bad. I think I've been looking at this too long. Break time...

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#15 8 years ago

Hi steviechs
I live in Switzerland south of Germany - so we have some "offset" - right now I have 08:15 in the morning. The results of testing (100%, 80%, 30%) are impressive - not clear to me "manually triggering" - can You garantuee You did not change the "setup" (not likely - but I must ask).

I read: problem may occur when starting-position is 10, 9, 8 - so up to three steppings might have the problem (10->9, 9->8, 8->7). Nice test (post-12) - why does it work 100% when the Outhole-Relay starts the stepping-down ?
Look at the JPG -> my "green-line", the switch named "OUTHOLE RE***." THIS switch does feed "Self-Hold-Current" to "Coil on Rollover-Relay" , the Outhole-Relay is activated for a turn - means the switch on the Score-Reel (SCR-Impulse-B) pulses 5 times -> look at the JPG, top of picture -> as the Advance-Unit reaches position-Zero: no more pulsing the left ( or right) Advance-Coil.

Nice theory - but wacky - for my theory I need the Score-Motor-Switch-INDEX-A "faulty-always-closed" - because in a fully-running pin this SCM-IND-A opens soon after the Score-Motor starts to run so "my green lines" are also just for "initial-current to coil on Rollover-Relay". You may have a look at SCM-INDEX-B - but please: ONLY look at / NO adjustment. The theory is wacky.

I look at ipdb-manual-page-17 (ori-15), the Advance-Unit - on the left I see Lug-11 with wire-yellow-blue. I see the symbol of a "grounded wiper" - means: "Wire-Yellow" is somewhere attached by a screw onto the metal (housing / frame / unit) - the WHOLE metal holding of this unit is "wire-yellow". See that screw and the wire-Yellow screwed-on ?
I believe: on the "underneath-side / backside" of the bakelite-plate: ALL contact-points "Lug-11" are connected by a wire running from one to next, next, next ... Lug-11. Can You have a look ath tiis side of the bakelite-plate and the wire running from Lug-11 to Lug-11 to Lug-11 (connecting all these contact-points. GRAB the wiring and gently pull -> truely soldered-on ? Greetings Rolf

#16 8 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

not clear to me "manually triggering" - can You garantuee You did not change the "setup" (not likely - but I must ask).

I'm 99% sure nothing changed from me faking a coil pulse on the Rollover relay. I was doing this by pushing on the coil plate/plastic to initiate contact and then letting the unit run as it normally would. The same pulse on the relay was occuring when the outhole or gate rollover contacts were hit but it was easier than starting a new game every 3 resets.

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

why does it work 100% when the Outhole-Relay starts the stepping-down ?

This is why I'm so confused. When outhole and game start and even player switch from 1 -> 2, the reset is 100% regardless of the starting position. That leads me to believe that everything on the advance unit is fine and why I feel like I'm going in circles on this issue.

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

I need the Score-Motor-Switch-INDEX-A "faulty-always-closed" - because in a fully-running pin this SCM-IND-A opens soon after the Score-Motor starts to run so "my green lines" are also just for "initial-current to coil on Rollover-Relay". You may have a look at SCM-INDEX-B - but please: ONLY look at / NO adjustment. The theory is wacky.

I didn't see anything that was faulty-always closed on SCM-A or SCM-B

I don't see a yellow wire screwed to the bakelite. It looks like every connection from lug to the outer and inner rivets was done in yellow on the bottom side . I didn't take the entire unit apart - not sure what that would entail on the mechanical side with the cog/spring/etc

#17 8 years ago

Hi steviechs
Williams calls a wire "grounded" - in reality it is "wire going th Return-Lug on transformer. The 24 VAC circuitry is Transformer-Power-lug -> Fuse -> coil -> switches -> Returning-Lug on transformer. The 6VAC Circuitry has 6VAC-Power-Lug -> fuse -> lamp -> Returning-Lug on transformer. THIS Returning-Lug is the Returning-Lug for 24VAC AND 6VAC. The screw and attachew wire-Yoeelow is somewhere (backside, near the bottom of the standing Unit - somewhere screwed onto the metal. 99.99%: The connection wire-yellow <- (screw) -> metal (housing ?) is good (but still: have a look and pull at wire-yellow. What is of interest: On the Backside if the bakelite-plate: The contact-points are connected in a line - everything soldered-on or a wire broken-off - staying in place (sometimes / sometimes not) ? Greetings Rolf

#18 8 years ago

Everything on the bottom of the advance unit looks solid. Still no yellow wire+screw to the ground. See the pictures

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#19 8 years ago

Hi steviechs
unfortunately we are still guessing - we cannot put a finger into the pin at a specific place and say: HERE is the fault --- I am searching - I make up a theory - and You prove me "right" or "wrong".
We might have to go back to the thought "worn-out Contact-Points" (?) Your pictures (post-18) show the underneathside / backside of the bakelit-plate - like a "bead chain / pearl necklace" a running wire neatly soldered-on at the many contactpoints - You prove (99.99%) my theory "broken off connecting wire" WRONG.
My first picture shows a mounted wire "Yellow" at a Ball-Count-Unit (encircled green (do not bother about the gray stuff - it is dirt)) - a screw - a piece of metal - wire-yellow soldered-on.
Sometimes wire yellow is not attached at the housing of the unit --- sometimes the wire is mounted on a leg / foot of the unit. My second picture shows a "true grounding" wire attached at the holding screw on a transformer.
Please look again for "wire-yellow attached to Your Advance-Unit" (in some way the wiper must have connection to "Yellow").

The (ipdb) manual-page-17 (ori-15) shows "Lug-11-wire-Yellow-Blue". When stepping towards the "middle / mid / center-position" the wiper (is connected to wire-Yellow) rides on the contact points making permanent connection Yellow-Blue <-> Yellow.
We still have the working theses "the fault is somewhere in that "wiper rides on contact-points" ".
If You establish a long Jumper-Wire (my blue line) from Solder-Lug-11 through the open Coin-Door into the open --- and establish another long Jumper-Wire (my blue line) "from tip*** of appropriate wiper" through the open coin-Door into the open - if You do establish these two Jumper-Wires:

Please run a series of tests (starting at pos-8 or pos-9 or pos-10) -> PUT together the ends of the two Jumper-Wires -> activate the Rollover-Relay -> (hold the Jumper-Wires together) -> look how the unit is stepped towards middle / center -> when the pin does the last step: put apart the Jumper-Wires.

If You do such a series of tests AND THE (original) FAULT HAS N E V E R OCCURED: This would be the proof "original fault must be there - the small area You have jumpered.

tip***: OK - clip-on the Jumper-Wire at "Tip of wiper" --- I would like to clip-on at "mounting screw at the unit". Greetings Rolf

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#20 8 years ago

Hi steviechs
unfortunately Williams used a "common / standard form" of bakelite-plate for the Advance-Unit - mounting contact-points where we would like to have a "continuous / throughout" "line / path / rail" ...

Want to try ?: Adjust the Self-Hold-Switch on Rollover-Relay "tight" - when the relay is NOT pulling: The two blades ALMOST touch. When Your phenomena occurs: The relay lets go -> armature and "upper / green blade" travel upwards - BUT the "lower / red blade" FOLLOWS (upwards) - making still contact - BEFORE the switch (can) open(s): The wiper on the Advance-Unit makes contact / connection (again) with the next contact-point -> Relay pulls-in again - not having opened that precious Self-Hold-Switch. Maybe we are lucky - and the phenomena dissapears ?

Adjusting the "lower / red blade": An adjustment-tool from a pin-parts-supplier would be fine to have --- with a thin plier You can also bend this blade: Put the plier "where the blade comes out of the bakelit-holding". Greetings Rolf

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#21 8 years ago

Hi steviechs
If "no luck" - by adjusting (tight) the Self-Hold-Switch on Rollover-Relay, post-20: We might have to alter the pin (my "violet stuff") - do a "Hack" (I do not like Hacks).
We mount a "new Relay" - it pulls whenever the "Wiper on Advance Unit" rests in "Center-Position". The "new Relay" has (only) a Normally-Closed-Switch.
As You play and the Advance-Unit moves to a side -> "new-Relay" quits pulling -> "Switch" closes / is closed -> Outhole-Relay or other goodies at the time activates the Rollover-Relay -> the moving the Advance-Unit towards Center-Position will be done -> when "Center-Position" is reached -> "new Relay" starts pulling - keeps-on pulling -> CUTS SELF-HOLD-CIRCUITRY OF ROLLOVER-RELAY.

I do not like Hacks - this would be my "last attempt" to fix the phenomena / fault. Greetings Rolf

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#22 8 years ago

Thanks for all the suggestions. I need a second pair of hands to do the jumper test. I'm hoping to test it tonight with the wife. I'll keep you posted on results!

#23 8 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Please run a series of tests (starting at pos-8 or pos-9 or pos-10) -> PUT together the ends of the two Jumper-Wires -> activate the Rollover-Relay -> (hold the Jumper-Wires together) -> look how the unit is stepped towards middle / center -> when the pin does the last step: put apart the Jumper-Wires.

SUCCESS. The problem never occurred when the jumped wires were in use. I think it's 100% bad contact on the wiper at 8,9,10.

I also verified that the Rollover relay remain energized until I broke the connection of the jumped wires.

I've already cleaned the contacts and wipers. The unit looks like it's centered on the rivets in all positions. What other options might I have to try to increase contact on those last 3 spots?

#24 8 years ago

Hi steviechs
Great - when jumpering: It works 100%. Lets assume "solderdrops /pearl-necklace" does not only look good - but have contact to / with the contact-points.
In earlier posts You wrote: pos-8,9,10 SOMETIMES WORK. So when we can make that "Self-Hold-Switch on Rollover-Relay" beeing closed a bit longer (in time) - within that time the wiper has moved to the next contact-point - having again good contact.
The problem is not: "wiper sits on a contact-point --- the problem is "does the wiper moves to the next contact-point FAST enough so the Rollover-Relay does not "let go - OPEN its Self-Hold-Switch".

So the next thing to do: post-20 -> adjust the "Self-Hold-Switch on Rollover-Relay" TIGHT - so 90% of travel (way) the two blades have contact among each other - this also means 90% of travel-time -> maybe we are lucky ?

Unfortunately Williams used a "common / standard form" of bakelite-plate for the Advance-Unit - mounting contact-points where we would like to have a "continuous / throughout" "line / path / rail".

I have never worked on "a bakelite-plate / worn contact-points / using silver-solder" - I am no help.
Please do the "adjusting the switch TIGHT" Job --- if "No Luck" - My advice: Close THIS topic and start a new topic with appropriate title (((something like: How to fill-in gaps between Contact-Points in a stepped Unit ? Silver-Solder ?))), (((((A good title and a new topic does attract poeple))))).
Greetings Rolf

P.S.: An example of an "official hack": http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair#Hacking_a_Fix_for_Quick_Draw.2FFast_Draw_Scoring --- my post-21 shows the "hack for Olympic Hockey".

#25 8 years ago

I'll give the rollover switch adjustment a shot. Do you think the "not fast enough" part could be the coil sleeve gummed up or the return spring settings not having enough tension? I'm guessing no due to the reset working in other cases?

#26 8 years ago

There wasn't much travel distance to tighten up on the self hold relay. The adjustment I made didn't make a difference in the reset.

I'll open a new thread if you're pretty confident the coil/springs aren't the issue

#27 8 years ago

Hi steviechs
do not get angry - whenever I have or read "erratic behaving of a pin": I do believe in a "wire broken-off a lug - staying in place - BUT due to vibration / shaking: the broken-off end moves a bit -> NO connection - later in the game -> vibration / shaking -> broken-off wire moves back". I once had that problem on a coil of an Extraball-Relay ...

I do have problems to imagine Rollover-Relay stays pulled when the wiper LEAVES one contact-point -> THEN comes to "next contact-point" - my opinion is: EVERY time the wiper moves: Self-Hold-circuitry is cut - because "Contact-Point -> GAP -> Contact-Point".

I gladly accept "Rollover-Relay stays pulling" - adjusting the switch "tight" sure will make no harm (as long as You adjust "tight" - NOT: "adjust ALWAYS MAKING CONTACT").

I cannot look into Your pin ...

A coil-sleeve gummed up ? - I cannot imagine - we want the Rollover-Relay stay pulling. A weak Return-Spring on Rollover-Relay-armature would rather be helpful as it does a tiny bit retard / stall the movement. Please adjust (tight) the Self-Hold-Switch (shown from the manual) shown in post-20 -> Switch-A (on the bottom of the switch-stack) --- again: pull a bit on all wires (switch-stack / coil).
If "No Luck": we must look further. Greetings Rolf
P.S.: In Switzerland it is fifteen minutes before midnight - time to go to sleep - till tomorrow, greetings Rolf

P.P.S.: Is this true ?:The movement - the stepping of the Advance-Unit is smooth - looks exatly the same "this step <-> other step" - OR is there a "stutter / uneasy" stepping (8,9,10) ?

P.P.P.S: I was writing my text - not knowing about Your post-26 ...
When You do jumpering: It works - movement of Advance-Unit is smooth / easy going (?) You guarantee "No broken-off wire" -> Yes, open another topic - I cannot help in "fixing contact-points on stepper-units" - never done myself.

#28 8 years ago

Rolf

I'm not angry or frustrated. I appreciate all your time and help!!

When I asked about the coil being slow, I meant the one on the advance stepper.

Thanks again

#29 8 years ago

Hi steviechs
OK - You understand my point of view (post-27) - I would like to have a "curved line" like on a printed circuit - the wiper rides on it constantly from pos-10, 9, 8, ...2,1 -> NOW comes a gap and pos-Zero / pos-middle --- NOW the "Self-Hold-Circuitry of Rollover-Relay gets broken-off ...

Yes, if the stepping "pos-10 -> -9 -> 8 -> 7" is different (sluggish, more time consuming) then stepping "pos-3 -> -2 -> 1 -> Middle": The "Self-Hold-Circuitry of Rollover-Relay gets broken-off
(((I assume the "moving" is done by a spring - wound around the axis, so I assume that spring is "more tightened" in pos-10,9,8 than in Pos-3,2,1,Middle - another problem: Why does a "more tightened spring" is less powerful" ? ...
I would like to fill-in solder between the contact-points 10-Solder-9-solder-8-solder-7 --- I have never done such - I believe it will fall off soon. (((-> A new topic about connecting contact-points (?))))

My "Hack" (post-21) is not a "true hack" - it does NOT alter "Logic of Play" - a new relay with one Normally-closed-Switch and a bit of (re) wiring - if You have "No Luck" with (new topic) fixing the Unit: A brand-new relay ? Here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/anyone-have-a-coil-like-this -> post-3 -> links -> https://www.zoro.com/omron-plug-in-relay-8-pins-square-24vac-my2n-ac24s/i/G1079531/ or: http://electromechanicalcomponents.guardian-electric.com/item/all-categories/ac-electric-relays/item-1314 - asking for 24 VAC-Relais (?) Greetings Rolf

7 years later
#30 1 year ago

I had the exact same problem and after thoroughly cleaning and adjusting multiple times, it turned out to be one if the stepper springs was wrong. I ordered a williams stepper kit from Steve's pinball warehouse and plays like a dream. The old spring was shorter and tighter. Looked the same when stretched out.
Hope this helps someone.

#31 1 year ago

Thanks for the update @bankshot. I never got it working 100%. Might give this a shot!

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