Troubleshooting a reset problem with my 1975 Williams Little Chief. Score reels reset correctly, but score motor continues to run, and reset never completes. Diving in, I found that there is a loose wire in the vicinity of the Bonus Unit (Circled below). Watching the unit during the reset cycle revealed that the unit does not sequentially reset to zero then step up once as expected. I don't see any of the switches with no wires attached, so I'm guessing this wire must piggyback onto one of the existing switch connections or to a ground on the frame of the unit since it is too short to connect to either coil. I've looked at the schematic, but can't seem to find all the switches. Any help? Thanks!

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Here is a wider angle shot showing the switches. Also I've attached closeups of the EOS switch and the zero switch stack (TOO close, maybe). All the solder joints look a bit sketchy, like they are cold soldered. The loose wires are much heavier than any of the other wires attached to the switches, which makes me wonder if they are supposed to be elsewhere. They look like they are the yellow common wires, but without really digging into the playfield harness I can't tell. I'm trying to work through the schematic to see what wires are supposed to be connected to the switches, but it's painful - the switches are grouped by function not by the unit they attach to.

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Rolf, thanks for the ideas - I will look into them, hopefully today, and get back to you with results. Interesting that the 25 cent relay gets involved in reset actions; I sorta saw it sitting there but overlooked it thinking it's only involved in setting up credits. I also have to admit to being a bit overwhelmed with all the action going on in terms of which relays are active (or not) when the motor is running and things are happening.

Mikala, thanks for your idea as well. At this point my thinking is this: first I will capture data to answer Rolf's questions, then try attaching the wires as you indicate, and re-capture the data. Hopefully something will be revealed by this.

Again, thanks to you both - this is truly a great resource!

Well, I didn't get as much time to look into this today as I wanted, and wound up side tracked on a couple of other things as well. Here's what I think I saw. First, thanks for the description of how the score motor is used for various tasks. At some level I think I knew that, but your explanation made it clear. And that lead to one of my side experiments. I tripped one of the coin switches (game set for 2 plays for a quarter), and the score motor ran and added two credits to the credit unit. Also, pressing one of the 50 point rollovers picked up the 50 point relay, turned on the motor, and ran for one cycle toggling the 10 point relay 5 times and thus the 10 point score reel. So far so good!

As you suggested, I manually added some bonus to the bonus unit. During the reset cycle nothing happened. I did note that if I completely reset the unit manually, the bonus step-up coil is toggled and the unit advances by one. However there are other things at play here that I will describe which leads me to believe there is, as you guess, more than one problem here unrelated to the loose wire I originally asked about.

1) Iinitial power on - sometimes it simply powers on and sits there. Other times the score motor runs one cycle and then it sits
2) Reset button pressed - Sometimes I get the 'runaway' reset I mentioned before. Other times it acts as though the reset cycle has completed and it adds another player via the coin setup unit.

I didn't have time to correlate the two behaviors from step 2 to the two behaviors from step 1, but that tells me that there is either a wire problem or a switch problem with one of the relays or the score motor. I know that at some point a previous owner did a real hack job trying to bypass the tilt logic, and probably did some unseen damage, so I'm suspicious there is a wire somewhere that is fried.

One question as I troubleshoot - I've got the playfield raised so I can observe relay action, so there is no ball present. Do I need to close the outhole switch for things to work right? Then open it when/if the ball release activates?

Hopefully I'll have more time tomorrow to better document what's going on. Definitely more than I originally thought.

Hi again, Rolf! Actually the time difference works pretty well; I have time to go off and investigate what you've written. I got a little time to play today, and found the following: it looks like the bonus relay should have been activated as part of the reset process but is not. I found a nice Youtube video by the Pinsider SteveFury that walks through the reset process for a Williams machine, and roughly speaking the bonus relay should have been activated, and remain active until the bonus unit open at zero switch opens. Since the relay never activates, the unit is never reset. Oddly, if I poke the relay to close it, it latches momentarily, then opens, but the bonus unit reset coil is not pulsed. BTW, the ball count and coin units both reset properly. However, since the game is never actually reset and s new game started, the ball count never increases, bonus is never scored, etc. Since the reset doesn't complete, the outhole relay is never activated and the game over relay remains latched.

To answer your question, yes, the flippers work. In fact, much of the machine works. I can press any of the rollovers, targets, kickers, pop bumpers, and the score will increment. If I manually advance the player unit (which I need to clean and adjust) I can get each player score to advance.

Hey Rolf, sorry for the lengthy delay in responding. I took another detour that I have not yet completed- I've pulled the main board out of the machine and I'm in the process of going through it relay by relay under a good strong light and a magnifier. Thusfar I've found at least one broken wire (outhole relay to tilt relay), and several relay contacts that do not open or close properly when the relay is activated. I'm also giving a quick burnish to each set of contacts. I didn't think that I needed to do quite this much, but it's obvious that I do. I'd vacuumed out a lot of dirt and junk before starting, but without pulling the board I never would have found what I've found. I've also attached the wire to the switch position that Mikala suggested. Haven't put things together to test it though.

Also, I thought about your comments regarding game before ending abnormally. I think that's the situation I am in; with the playfield up and no ball on the outhole switch, it's certainly not a normal end. Once I've finished my cleanup/adjust activity (slowed today by family things) I will pursue that course.

Thanks! Bill...

Ok, back after a lengthy hiatus, with some results. First, the bonus issue seems to be resolved! Given the other problems (described below), a reset cycle will reset the bonus unit. There are still other issues though that have me baffled. The score motor still runs unexpectedly. One thing I found is that the game over latch coil is almost always activated. According to the schematic, it's activated by the reset relay, along with resets to the coin unit, ball count unit, and player unit. The reset relay was NOT pulled in when I noticed this. As an experiment, I pulled the wire to the coil, and when I powered up, things behaved more or less as expected - the lock relay opened the circuit to the game over trip coil, and the machine sat there. So far, so good. Tripped one of the coin switches, and the score motor ran one cycle, adding two credits as expected. This made me suspect a short on the appropriate switch on the reset relay, but I could not find one. I verified that none of the wires to the switch blades were touching, and that the switch was in fact open. I even put a slip of paper between the contacts to ensure that they did not touch. I'm thinking now that there may be something else, but at least one problem has been solved.

Hi Rolf, and thanks again for the very detailed analysis. So, the lock relay is really there to ensure that 'game over' is asserted at power on regardless of whether the game ended normally or not, if I understand you. It seems like a bit of a shaky setup - the lock relay switch has to remain closed long enough for the Game Over Trip (M-29-1000) coil to pull in; after that the switch on the lock relay opens, removing power from the M-29-1000 coil. This all makes sense - only the lock relay has power applied continuously.

So to answer your first question, yes, this part of the circuit works correctly. As I mentioned before, I unsoldered the wire to the Z-27-1000 coil so there would be no issues with it, and the lock relay/game over trip works. Score motor does not run. If I trip a switch on the coin door, the motor runs and two credits are added as expected. This is much different than when the wire is attached to the Z-27-1000 coil; that's when I see not only two credits added but also see the motor run several cycles - seemingly a random number.

Now, more to the point, I think. As I brought in a magnifier and a stronger light, I noticed that the insulation on one of the wires connected to the switch stack on the score motor was flaking off. (see the picture below) This is a real red flag - you speculated as to crazy wiring may be true! It looks as though I will need to unlace the harness to the switches on the motor to see if there are others that may be shorting together, or perhaps broken altogether. I really don't know what else to do at this point; until I can assure myself that there are no others like this it seems like I'm just going to run in circles. Ugh - not looking forward to replacing a bunch of wires!

Thanks again, Bill...

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EDIT: The wire in question is connected to the switch on the index cam stack that pulses the Eject Relay, Bonus Relay, and the Outhole relay. Interesting, in that those seem to be where I have had troubles..

It looks like this one wire is the only bad one so far. I have a few questions regarding the wires in an EM machine of this vintage. First, what is the actual wire gauge? The Jack Layout pages in the user guide indicate that the heaviest wires are 16 gauge, and it looks as though there are maybe two other sizes: a slightly larger gauge (smaller wire) for most of the rest of the wiring, and a third, smaller size wire like the one above. Of course this is just a crude, visual observation. And I know I can go with a heavier wire to replace what I find. My second question is regarding the switches on the score motor. What is the recommended way to check their operation and to adjust them if necessary? Is it OK to turn the shaft by hand to open/close the switches?

Meanwhile, back to unravel the mysteries!

Thanks, Bill...

Rolf, let me see if I can answer your questions and give a better description of the 'mysteries' I'm working on. First, since I don't have any wire handy, I used some of my wife's nail polish to coat the bare section of wire, at least temporarily. Not great, but at least I think it allows me to move ahead. Now, here is the situation:

Initial conditions for the following experiments: Credits on credit unit. Bonus unit reset, coin unit reset, ball count unit reset, eject unit reset, score reels all reset. Since I'm running with the playfield raised, I used a thin sliver of wood to hold the outhole switch closed to simulate the presence of a ball. I think this should represent a good starting state. Also, the machine is set for 25c gives 2 plays.

Experiment 1: manually tripped the game over to simulate game over. Power up the game.
Results for Experiment 1: Lock relay energizes, which energizes the game over trip (M-29-1000) for a short time before the lock relay contacts open, removing power from game over trip. This is all expected, and good. However, the score motor starts, and the game over latch (Z-27-1000) coil is energized constantly, and the outhole relay is toggled by one of the switches on the motor. This continues for 1 or more cycles of the score motor, then the motor stops.

Experiment 1a: Turn power off and back on. Often the same results, but sometimes the motor does not start at all, but the game over latch is constantly energized.

For either of those tests, pressing the reset button does not do a reset and does not attempt to serve a ball, but instead adds additional players via the Coin Setup unit as though the game had already been reset. I think this makes some sense, but haven't looked at the logic for adding players to a multi-player game. My thoughts are based on memories of my mis-spent college days where we played a LOT of pinball! That is, I believe pressing reset the first time causes a reset and a ball to be served, and pressing afterwards adds additional players.

Experiment 2:This experiment was to gain insight into when the Game Over Latch was energized. Pulled the pin that feeds the score motor. Power up the machine. Same results as experiment 1 for the Lock relay and game over trip. Game Over latch is energized, but weakly. That is, the coil is energized but not always with enough power to completely pull in. Replaced the pin to allow the score motor to run, which it did, giving same results as above in experiment 1 - the Game Over latch is energized with full power and remains that way.

Experiment 3: Same as Experiment one, but when score motor stops running, I pressed one of the coin switches on the coin door. This results in the score motor running and adding two credits (expected), but the motor continues to run several cycles instead of only the one that I would expect.

Experiment 4: Removed wire from the Game Over Latch coil. Power up the game. Lock relay and Game Over Trip energize properly. Score motor does not run. Pressing coin switch as in experiment 3 adds two credits and the score motor stops after one cycle. This is what I would expect from adding coins and the game set for 2 credits for one coin (quarter).

Experiment 5: Same setup as experiment 4. Power up results same (lock and game over trip). Press the reset button. Reset cycle starts, score motor runs. Reset relay drops out at the completion of reset, and score motor stops. Touching the disconnected wire to the Game Over Latch coil results in the coil being energized constantly, and the score motor runs again.

By the way, prior to beginning these experiments I visually checked that NONE of the relay switches that run the score motor were closed. The only time I see it run unexpectedly or run for more than expected is when the reset relay latch coil is in the circuit.

One thought I have is that the indications of the game over latch setting prematurely is significant, especially the observation that it seemed weak, as though there are more wires with bad insulation that allow stray current to flow, or perhaps a wire whisker shorting some switch contact intermittently. That's what I mean by the mystery of what I'm seeing - it doesn't make a lot of sense, and some of the results I see (score motor running a variable number of cycles) are inconsistent.

I think at this point I need to continue checking all the wiring in the game for missing insulation and or broken connections, as well as verify that the switches on the score motor are opening and closing properly, and that there is nothing in the way of foreign matter across any relay switches. There's something that is just not right that is not as obvious as a stuck relay switch or even an obvious loose wire. That's the best I can come up with here, and as always Rolf, I appreciate your help and guidance.

Bill...

Ok, Rolf, I'll do that! Once again I sidetracked myself a bit. I was looking at each relay on the board, and every one had dirt and other debris under it that I could not always remove with a vacuum, so I started removing them and examining the underside, and wiping down the board itself. At the end of the day I wound up removing everything from the board, sanding it, and giving it a couple of coats of stain and varnish. About half the relays had dried out and crumbling grommets, so I replaced them as well. Yes, I know it's largely cosmetic and in an area where nobody much will see it, but it makes me happy AND gives me a chance to look at each relay individually. And yes, I found another broken wire, but not one that should be in the area we are looking at.

I should be able to finish up this exercise tomorrow, and hopefully will be able to report soon! As you might guess, I live in Florida, and we've had company escaping the cold northern winter, so I may be delayed yet again. Still, this is a labor of love, not yet feeling like a job, so I keep at it!

Thanks again,
Bill...