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(Topic ID: 183766)

Williams Lady Luck player 2 start up

By nightfire

7 years ago

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8 posts
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Latest reply 7 years ago by nightfire
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Lady Luck Williams, 1968

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#1 7 years ago

I have a Williams Lady Luck that sometimes will not start up player 2. About half time I play it, I will hit the start button for player one, and hit again for player two and it will decrement the credit wheel, but will not add the second player. The credit wheel keeps subtracting every time I hit the button, but stays to player 1 for about 6 hits before it adds the second player.
I cleaned the stepper units when I got the game, which cured the other issues it had, but not this one. I'm not sure which coil to look at that might be responsible....?
Thanks, Walt

#2 7 years ago

GFY

Otaku

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 93,150 3,813

Make sure the relay titled "Second Coin Relay" is clean and well adjusted. This relay will not only power the 30v backend to adding a second player, but will also control the backbox lighting to show that a second player is added.

However, if this is not activating when you press the start button a second time (you will need to see if it does or not by trying it), then your problem is further "upstream".

#3 7 years ago

rolf_martin_062

Inactive member

Aarau

9y 59,550 4,150 14 8

Hi Walt
I happen to like to do some "work" in MS-Paint - taking snippets out of a schematics.
You may have AAA: The Reset-Relay faulty pulls - or You may have BBB (relay does not pull but) ("encircled red") the Brake-Side of the M&B-Switch on the Reset-Relay is faulty: Wire-color-black-blue has broken-off - "stays in place - sometimes, making contact" --- or the blades are maladjusted or the contact-points are oxidated - "making contact - sometimes".

When You have AAA (Reset-Relay faulty pulls) the ("encircled red") M&B-Switch is entitled to move - the GAME-OVER-RELAY is faulty - see the "encircled orange" Switch - THIS Switch is FAULTY closed (sometimes) when the needed and done "green stuff" is taking place.
Look at Reset-Relay / Ball-Count-RESET-Coil at the time "the fault happens", greetings Rolf

0Lady-Luck-Work-03 (resized).jpg

#4 7 years ago

nightfire

Pinside member

7y 29,650 171 9

Well, you guys, this is very strange...! After spending about 2 days looking for the ball count relay, I absolutely can not find it. (Can anyone tell me where it is?? I feel real stupid). After testing the game with jumper wires, I realized the reset relay is not getting the signal to engage through the blue/orange wire.( You show it as orange/blue though). I decided to trace the wire backwards from the reset relay to find the ball count relay. I located all the bl/o wires I could that looked like they might take me there. The only one I found was at a jones plug at the front of the cabinet. As I jumped it, the reset relay set and engaged the correct relays to start up Player-2! I worked from there to trace it to find the ball count relay. Instead, it led me to the coin door to the middle coin slot switch. I hit the switch, and again it reset correctly. Trouble is, how does that work? That middle coin slot was never used from the outset when the game was made. It has the middle plug there for no coins. Now what? I still have no ball count relay or way of getting the player 2 to start up correctly, even though it occasionally works..??
Walt

#5 7 years ago

rolf_martin_062

Inactive member

Aarau

9y 59,550 4,150 14 8

Hi Walt
when I do not really understand the relays - the features - what comes after what - what stuff is involved: I like to look at the 6VAC (lights) section in the schematics - HERE are the lights to inform the player - I can read and clue what stuff is involved.

Your pin is an two-player-pin --- Williams said "we can save money as we do not need several stuff (we'd need in a 4 player game)". A Williams 4-player pin has a Ball-Count-Unit and an Player-Unit, a Williams-2-player-pin has NO Player-Unit - it has a Ball-Count-Unit (but the Ball-Count-Unit works a bit different then the "Ball-Count-Unit in a 4-player pin") --- see the JPG.

There is no "Ball-Count-Relay". Simulate "playing a One-Player-Game" - every time You loose a ball: The pin will step to next ball means "a unit is stepped" - look in the cabinet - look in the backbox - look on the underneathside of the playfield - in a ONE-Player-game Your Ball-Count-Unit will do two steps when the pin wants to deliver next ball.

I hope You have found the "Ball-Count-Unit" - the pin has reached Game-Over - You start a new ONE-Player-Game - see how the Ball-Count-Unit does reset in a huge single step.
THEN press the Credit button again to start for second player and LOOK - question: Does the Ball-Count-Unit reset means does the plunger on the reset-side of the unit slightly move ?

Your post-4 describes strange stuff - we will come to - first a question: What is the "middle coin slot" for ? 5 cents or 10 cents or 25 cents or what ?

For now I am interested in "You start for second player - question: does the plunger on the Ball-Count-Unit-RESET-Side slightly moves ?". Greetings Rolf

0Lady-Luck-Work-04 (resized).jpg

#6 7 years ago

nightfire

Pinside member

7y 29,650 171 9

So, in my schematic it shows a ball count reset and a ball count step up. Are those coils for the ball count stepper unit? I thought they were relays. That is what I was looking for.. (One you circled in your post 3 diagram.)

I simulated a 1 player game to get the ball count stepper to move. After the game was over, I hit the play button to start a new game. The stepper moved to the 'home' position to light up player 1. When I hit the button to add player 2, the stepper unit did not move any more forward, and no adding player 2.
Walt

#7 7 years ago

rolf_martin_062

Inactive member

Aarau

9y 59,550 4,150 14 8

Hi Walt
here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm then here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps the different kinds of steppers. Your Ball-Count-Unit is a Total-Reset-Stepper.

Yes, everything You write in post-6 is good and is "true". In question (when starting for the second player) is "my rosa / pink wiring". Toggle-off the pin, unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons). Want (first) have a good look - grab every wire and gently pull a bit --- soldered-on or broken-off*** ? The Reset-Relay is not pulling - is there connection in the "brake part" of the M&B-Switch on Reset-Relay ? Contact-Points on the switchblades clean ? A nice test: Take a stripe of very thin paper (cigarette-paper), manually actuate the Reset-Relay and sneak-in the stripe of paper in-between the two contact-Points. Let go on the relay. The question: Grab the stripe of paper and pull - can You simply pull it out (a fault) --- or does the switch (beeing OK, proper adjusted) HOLD the stripe of paper so You cannot "easy pull-out" ?

broken-off*** (I have read it in pinside - this actually happens - rare, but happens): Not only wires break-off from a solder-lug - WIRES may brake INSIDE the fabric / insulation or the "wire" --- we do not see it - but we do not have connection.

The JPG shows "brown wiring" a test with two Jumper-Wires - when You start a new / one-player game: Have "not connected". Then the pin has started a one-player-game --- do connect my two "brown arrows" and start for the second player and by this You check "Switch and connecting wire". Greetings Rolf

0Lady-Luck-Work-05 (resized).jpg

#8 7 years ago

nightfire

Pinside member

7y 29,650 171 9

So, here is what happened... I jumped the wire as you noted, and it did not work. I looked at your section on this painted schematic, and then looked for it on the factory schematic. I then did the same thing jumping the other wires in that circuit. It worked when I jumped a wire from the score motor to the reset relay (the blu/o wire). I couldn't tell if it was a broken wire. So, to make it easy, I started by re-soldering the two ends of the wire. That was the problem, old solder not making contact on the blu/o wire. Works every time now!
Thanks all for the help!
Walt

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