Williams Joust System 7...I screwed up!


By erico201

1 month ago


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  • Latest reply 4 weeks ago by erico201
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#1 30 days ago

Hey guys! I screwed up! As some of you might have seen in a few pinball groups on Facebook, I recently restored a Williams Joust machine complete with new cabinet and a mega shop. 40 pin interconnect was changed, etc. Let me tell you, no detail was left out as I wanted it perfect. Umm, well one detail was left out...I didn't run a 3" piece of ground strap from the main AC filter case to the rest of the cabinet. Yes, all of the cabinet was meticulously run with ground strap but it was useless without it being connected to the main ground. Totally an oversight on my part and I take full responsibility for my error!

Here's what happened:

Game booted and played fine for about 10 games and then I noticed that all controlled lamps beside those in Column 1 were out. Strange but it didn't affect the game otherwise. I power it down so I could investigate. Found nothing out of the ordinary as far as wiring shorted or broken so I powered it back up. Still played great! Turned it off and left it for a few hours. Upon powering it up later, all solenoids (besides the flippers) fired once every 3 seconds and repeated. Game doesn't boot and just keeps firing the solenoids!! G.I. flashes at the same rate as the solenoids as they fire.

My question is, am I on the right path knowing none of the boards or playfield components were grounded? Which chips do you think are fried after not being grounded? The PIA's, the 7408 gates? I'm pretty clueless when it comes to testing these boards (System 7).

Any ideas are GREATLY appreciated!
Thanks,
Eric

#2 30 days ago
Quoted from erico201:

Hey guys! I screwed up! As some of you might have seen in a few pinball groups on Facebook, I recently restored a Williams Joust machine complete with new cabinet and a mega shop. 40 pin interconnect was changed, etc. Let me tell you, no detail was left out as I wanted it perfect. Umm, well one detail was left out...I didn't run a 3" piece of ground strap from the main AC filter case to the rest of the cabinet. Yes, all of the cabinet was meticulously run with ground strap but it was useless without it being connected to the main ground. Totally an oversight on my part and I take full responsibility for my error!
Here's what happened:
Game booted and played fine for about 10 games and then I noticed that all controlled lamps beside those in Column 1 were out. Strange but it didn't affect the game otherwise. I power it down so I could investigate. Found nothing out of the ordinary as far as wiring shorted or broken so I powered it back up. Still played great! Turned it off and left it for a few hours. Upon powering it up later, all solenoids (besides the flippers) fired once every 3 seconds and repeated. Game doesn't boot and just keeps firing the solenoids!! G.I. flashes at the same rate as the solenoids as they fire.
My question is, am I on the right path knowing none of the boards or playfield components were grounded? Which chips do you think are fried after not being grounded? The PIA's, the 7408 gates? I'm pretty clueless when it comes to testing these boards (System 7).
Any ideas are GREATLY appreciated!
Thanks,
Eric

The ground braid is for safety and not required to run the game, so you have other problems.

Have you gone through the power supply, replaced the filter caps, or at least measure the DC and AC ripple to see if these are in tolerance?

#3 30 days ago
Quoted from wayout440:

The ground braid is for safety and not required to run the game, so you have other problems.
Have you gone through the power supply, replaced the filter caps, or at least measure the DC and AC ripple to see if these are in tolerance?

Thanks for the reply, Wayout! I'll admit that at first I just assumed it blew some chips on the MPU as the controlled lamps failed first and then the boot up issue with the cycling and lack of getting past the coils firing on an off. Now that you mention it, I really should look at the power supply and see that it hasn't failed! Good call! I will investigate the voltages tonight and report back. Do you think that these two issues would surface so close to each other with a failing power supply(Lamps first and boot issue shortly after)? I'm very sure that there hasn't been any work one the power supply in many years!

Thanks again,
Eric

#4 29 days ago

The power supply should be working and stable first. Of course, you could have a problem with something else, or even more than one problem. Once the power supply is verified good, if you have another problem, we would take the next step in troubleshooting.

#5 29 days ago
Quoted from wayout440:

The power supply should be working and stable first. Of course, you could have a problem with something else, or even more than one problem. Once the power supply is verified good, if you have another problem, we would take the next step in troubleshooting.

Ok so I tested the 12v unregulated pins and the four 5v pins on the power supply. The 5v pins were at 5.12 which I think is acceptable BUT then 12v line was at 15.35v which in pretty sure is out of range, correct? I read somewhere that it should be 10-14 vdc.

#6 29 days ago
Quoted from erico201:

Ok so I tested the 12v unregulated pins and the four 5v pins on the power supply. The 5v pins were at 5.12 which I think is acceptable BUT then 12v line was at 15.35v which in pretty sure is out of range, correct? I read somewhere that it should be 10-14 vdc.

Actually, I believe the "published" top end of the range is 13.5 VDC...but that's still probably o.k. You are more likely to have a problem when the 12VDC supply is low, rather than high. The 7805 voltage regulator is one device that gets the +12VDC unregulated, and has an input range of 7-35VDC. The reset circuit gets the +12VDC as well, but just for the purpose of determining that the supply has shut off.

Unfortunately, if the power supply is ok that means the intermittent is probably something else.
A worthy read (especially section 2. Connectors, Connectors, Connectors!)
http://www.flippers.info/system6repairpart2.asp

#7 29 days ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Actually, I believe the "published" top end of the range is 13.5 VDC...but that's still probably o.k. You are more likely to have a problem when the 12VDC supply is low, rather than high. The 7805 voltage regulator is one device that gets the +12VDC unregulated, and has an input range of 7-35VDC. The reset circuit gets the +12VDC as well, but just for the purpose of determining that the supply has shut off.
Unfortunately, if the power supply is ok that means the intermittent is probably something else.
A worthy read (especially section 2. Connectors, Connectors, Connectors!)
http://www.flippers.info/system6repairpart2.asp

Thanks for this, Wayout! I will dig in and start replacing those connectors. I have a ton in stock but was hoping to get away without having to do them. It'll be worth it in the end!

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