(Topic ID: 175543)

Williams Hot Line Startup issues

By burnt_finger

7 years ago



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#1 7 years ago

Hot Line Woes,

So I picked up my first single player Williams EM of this era and it has some problems that have me scratching my head. I know the schematic is on IMDB I have looked at it for probably three hours I really need to get it printed off I can’t read these on the computer but anyway here is the problem.

1. Press Start
2. Score Motor Runs
3. Relay Bank Resets
4. Play Field Matrix Says “H” like it should for about two seconds then more relays trip on the bank
5. Relay Bank Resets
6. It repeats 4 and 5 about ten times
7. Play Field Matrix Advances to “O”
8. Scores 300 points
9. And about 50% of the time it goes to ball 2.
10. Sometime pressing start will, reset the player unit, sometimes it doesn’t
11. Sometimes the games start correctly but 90% of the time it does the above mentioned.

I have been through all the switches, everything appears to be in good shape nothing stuck nothing shorted.

#2 7 years ago

sounds like something to do with the reset bank??
is it seated all the way down? chk all relays inside for proper lift/drop action.

#3 7 years ago

You're sure the inlanes that advance the sequence and score 300 points are good?

Scoring 300 and the matrix going to O leads me to believe you've got an issue with those switches, or something is not right on the matrix advance unit.

The game should not advance to ball 2 though unless the outhole switch is made.

#4 7 years ago

Hi burnt_finger +
strange behaviour - I looked up in the ipdb-schematics. Yes, the Relay-Bank should not reset more than once - I do not know - I am guessing: The multiple "Reset" of the Relay-Bank is an "Side-Effect" of the fault (?).

Do not spend hours (as I am guessing) - have a look at the Coin-Relay - look at the relay and start a game - the relay shall (and most likely does) pull-in --- BUT it shall quit pulling after one Score-Motor-Turn of 180 degrees / half a revolution.

See the JPG - the Coin-Relay is feeded electricity - Coil pulls, relay actuates (pulls-in) and among other Switches: closes (encircled green) its Self-Hold-Switch. See the "Red stars" - the Game-Over-Relay shall not pull - so switch is open / the Ball-Unit shall be resetted so switch is open.
Then towards the end of the Score-Motor-Turn: Score-Motor-Wheel "5" shall open its switch AND the Coin-Relay must let go (quit pulling). ATTENTION: Score-Motor-Wheel "5" is NOT the fifth wheel - look at the "real motor" - then comes "Index-Wheel" then "1", "2", "3", "4", "5", "Impulse-Wheel" !!!

So --- have a look at the Coin-Relay - look at the relay and start a game - the relay shall (and most likely does) pull-in --- BUT it shall quit pulling after one Score-Motor-Turn of 180 degrees / half a revolution - question: DOES the Coin-Relay LET GO ?

IF (if) "Yes, let go": I would like to investigate on the "Advance Relay".
IF (if) "No, the relay does NOT let go": We must investigate in "my red stars"-stuff. Greetings Rolf

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#5 7 years ago

Thanks everyone for the help, I know the 100 point switches where all good so I went with Rolf's suggestions and started with the Coin-Relay and that was working as expected, but I didn't have my shop lights on so I was noticing quite a bit of arching on the reset relay. So I cleaned and readjusted the blue-white wired switch on it and it is seems to be working correctly now after about ten games with no issues so keeping my fingers crossed but I think it is fixed..

Thanks Again!

Brad

#6 7 years ago

Hi Brad
great, You fixed it. I am curious - You write in post-5: "Switch on Reset-Relay with wire-color-Blue-White" - question: And the other wire on that switch has color-Blue-Brown ? Greetings Rolf

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#7 7 years ago

Rolf,

I miss-spoke, the first time I looked the blu-w was in a position that appeared it was on the switch I cleaned. it looks like write-orange and black-red? the wires are so dirty and the colors are so faded its hard to tell.

Brad

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#8 7 years ago

Hi Brad
You may say "it is fixed - the pin runs --- we let it be a mystery if cleaning the switch fixed the fault or if little gremlins were at work ..." - I well can live with this.

Thanks for the picture of the Reset-Relay. I show it again and I have put Letters to every switch on the relay --- A, B, C, D. The "D" is the outmost Switch - it is the ONLY Normally-Closed-Switch. I have found four switches in the schematics - "D" simply cuts the "Power" to the Playfield stuff (as the Game-Over-Relay also has such a switch) --- You shall NOT actuate the Flipper-Bats.

I also can identify "Switch A": A short wire runs from COIL to a Switch mounted in the Switch-Stack on the relay, see my "dark-blue line(s)".

So we have the "B" and the "C" in question - in the schematics You see: One switch makes the Score-Motor run --- the other switch helps actuating (with pulses from Score-Motor-Switch-Impulse-4) the Score-Reset-Relay and this pulsing Score-Reset-Relay makes the Score-Drums reset.

Reading Your description in post-1 and looking at the schematics makes me believe in "gremlins at work", greetings Rolf

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4 weeks later
#9 7 years ago

I also have a Hot Line. Recently it's gone into an endless start-up cycle.
I would appreciate some guidance on what to do. It's most like a dirty contact issue as the game does not get played often

Thanks

#10 7 years ago

Hi instmusic
welcome to pinside.
I believe a "new topic" is more attractive then an "old topic". Start Your own topic, make an good description - You toggle-on the pin (strange behaviour ?) - You push the credit button - pin starts and does resetting (strange behaviour ?) Score Drums do reset (do they ?) - ball is kicked over to the shooter alley (is it kicked over ?) --- the very first fault / strange behaviour is of interest, greetings Rolf

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