(Topic ID: 2615)

Williams High Speed, 'Help needed', kinda.


By Mr_B

9 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 14 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Mr_B
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 9 years ago

A friend of mine, has, for some time now, had this classic standing in the "playing room". It's a third, forth, possibly fifth hand machine, has a lot of use on it, and to be honest, it has it's own view on reality. Basically, a lot of things doesn't work. I've pretty much just looked, no, make that peeked at the wiring so far, and it's clear someone, did something to this pinball machine. Something not nice.
I already know I'm going to need a lot of help getting this thing up and running as it's supposed to be, so I've been poking about trying to find some tech resources. Found a general repair guide for Williams System 11, which should be enough to get through at least the wiring. However, it seams that this someone who did unthinkable things to this machine in the past simply pulled the slingshot triggers out. No idea how they were mounted, or where. (well, in the front part of the slingshot, i would guess...) light-bulbs hanging in the wires everywhere. Some works, some don't. Most of the once that are in there right place, seam to work.

I guess what i really want is "everything that can be helpful". I'm pretty much getting free access and get do do what ever i please with the machine. It's going to be somewhat limited as to what it can cost, so it's not going to be restored to "new" condition, but i would like to see it fully operational. As hinted at, so far I've only peeked at it, and found the jungle of hanging wires, lose switches and light-bulbs overwhelming.

I need to make things more structured. Anyone got detail pictures of the back of the playfield? To some extent i should be able to figure out what goes where from that, and then I'll be a extreme pain in the rear end on who ever cares to answer questions, trying to get info on things i cant figure out how to mount, where it goes, and so on...
Any tech-doc that could be helpful will be well received as well.

Parts. Rubber parts, i assume is more or less standard, just find the right size, and it's golden. How about bumpers. Rebuild kits? Finding the original bumpers would be hard, and swapping for others would mess with the games looks. I know there are rebuild kits for the flippers, also, conversion kits to put less strain on the old hardware with different from the original solenoid windings, might look in to that, but currently all flippers work... sorta. Targets, drop targets, bullseyes... Get generic, and just leave em in the color they are? It's a shame really, but i for sure don't have the paintskills to reproduce some of the targets.

It's hard to tell, but the game self diagnostics complains about a flipper issue on boot, but other then that it seams content, so I'm hoping that the boards are in good shape.
Seams like a safe guess to say it's either in good shape, or almost completely toasted at this point.
Wish me luck.
B!

#2 9 years ago

this should get you started.

http://ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1176

do you have any previous experience with these machines? the ton of wiring can be daunting at first.

also, this is THE place for online help if you havent already been already..

http://www.pinrepair.com/sys11/index.htm

Good Luck, you might need it. =)

#3 9 years ago

"It's a third, forth, possibly fifth hand machine, has a lot of use on it, and to be honest, it has it's own view on reality ..."

That's one of the funnier things I have ever read!

#4 9 years ago

It might also be helpful to watch the top cast video on system11's (video #7 I believe). I can try and send pictures of the underside of our highspeed but, man, there's a lot of wires under there!

#5 9 years ago

@phrmtek: Last thing first. The good luck bit. Your wrong. There is no 'might' about it, i need all the luck in the world to get this right.
The two links you provided are pretty much what i found on my own. There isn't really much about the specifics, go figure. Guess what i was really hoping for was / is someones rebuild filled with pictures, letting me read about that journey, and trying to match photos of parts with the stuff dangling from wires to figure out where they go. I do realize that it's highly unlikely someone did create that sort of record. I don't have any experience with one of these, the closest i get is a all mechanical Bally where i replaced a lot of wiring, some years ago. That one was in good condition other then that the wiring had started to shed it's skin...

@Seanymph: I watched the teaser, but sort of gave up on it, as it seamed more to be about T&A's or starwars then a record of "how to's". Was that a bit to hasty? 12 bucks is coffee change, so if it's worth it, i'll go for it, but even as i don't drink coffee, and isn't the one supposed to pay for all this, i hate to waste good coins that could be used to feed a coinslot for more credits.

Just for reference. There isn't a way to get a email notification on responses on this forum? I looked, and didn't find anything, but perhaps i looked in the wrong place... Story of my life.
B!

#6 9 years ago

You can't just learn how to work on pinball machines with a picture book. If you want to fix it you will have to read, learn, get your hands dirty. Read some more...ask questions. Learn to read schematics, use a soldering iron, multimeter, etc.

It's not that hard, but it's not that simple either...

#7 9 years ago

There are probably some teardown pics online though.

Do a search over on RGP. ("highspeed teardown")

#9 9 years ago

Chances are the reason the machine got to be in the condition it is now is because someone tried to fix things and didn't understand what they were doing and got frustrated with it. So, be prepared to find more in depth problems once you fix the wiring issues (probably circuit board problems also).

If you take photos of areas on your machine that you need specific help with, someone here should be able to post detailed photos of the same section from their High Speed machine to reference (I have one, and several others do also).

Good luck with it. Be patient and take your time.

G

#10 9 years ago

@Tom.com: I'm by no means a pro, and schematics are difficult for me to figure out, but the actual work included in removing a surface mounted component, replacing it with a socket, or replacement component isn't anything new to me. I'm however going to try and get switches, lightbulbs and god knows what else is hanging by a thread, (Well, wire really, but still) back to where they belong before i go and look at the boards. If something is broken I'll try and fix it, but i know there are limits to what logic can help me with, and wont hesitate to ask for help and directions. Mainly I'm looking to verify that parts work, wiring is ok, and replace bits as i go to achieve this. Once everything is hooked up, and working, i can actually locate possible issues with the boards and components on them, and try and solve that. Is my train of thoughts a train-wreck? Should i be going at this from a different angle? My experience is as said, lacking, and i know it. If it's better to address boards first, i have to figure out how to diagnose the hardware that hangs in it's wires, and work it from that angle. Someone here should have more experience then me, if not all of you, and be able to tell if the plan of attack is hopeless, or got a shot.
The teardown you linked to has some good detail pictures which should help me locating where some of the parts goes, I'll be taking pictures and have everyone try and help figuring out what is what when i get stuck.

@glilly-BOA: I'll try and mend it as best i can, as i said i already figured out that this machine will never bee seen in a perfect condition, even, parts of whats needed for such a restoration is completely omitted. The playfield would need a repaint, it's just getting a cleaning, and possibly a rub with polish/wax. Might place a few mylar stickers where it's wearing, to try and preserve whats left of the playfield, in the hope that someone who really wants a work on there hands ends up taking over it when the current owner lets it go. I'm simply not capable to pull of a complete teardown, and wont risk it, seeing as it's not mine to start with... I'll be getting food, and hugs for the work, and they get to pay for parts as i entertain myself. It's going to be a slow process, seeing as its about a hours drive away, but I'll try and get a bit done every now and then.

Thank you all for your input, don't stray to far, I'll need more. Anyone care to move to the south parts of Sweden? I can promise good food, and a lot of time spent waiting for parts...
B!

#11 9 years ago

lets see some picts - we can tell you how bad or good things are looking. Cant be as bad as the description my buddy gave me last night of a T2 he got for $100 bucks...wires soldered all over the place to every board - he's afraid to even turn it on and he has 7 other pins so I trust him on that one.

#12 9 years ago

Oh, this one works. Well, sorta. It's fun, playable, and just lacks "it". So, it's nowhere as bad.
I'll see what i can do about pics, I've put some resources on my laptop, and will try and set up a "play date" in the near future, so i get free dinner, some company, and get to poke about a bit in there. Hopefully, with the playfield up, and lighting at it's best, it's going to be less of a scare then i imagine. At this point it's anyones guess really.

I can say for certain it's not having intermittent issues with the stuff that does work currently. It holds up for hours of drunk playing, days of idle clicking on it's own, and so on. With a bit of luck it's "just" the slingshots, and the bumpers that need some tlc. Well, and a bunch of dead lightbulbs. I'm just preparing for the worst.
Looking over the Internet Pinball Machine DataBase, two out of three bumpers are not working, (no idea why) and both the slingshots are out, (Best guess is that the switches hanging in there wires are the once supposed to activate them) as is the top (third) flipper, (dead secondary switch on the right flipper button, or a bad wire) and the kickback is way dead. (Most likely has a dead switch, Once lit, the kickback light never goes away)

If thats all thats wrong it's probably fairly easy. Anything to be wary of in that list? First measure every coil, and try and figure out what they should give as results. Is there any lists providing what solenoid coil should have what resistance? Or it's going to be a guessing game played with Google for every individual coil value? Or should any coil giving higher then 2.5Ohm be considered "good"?

Thank you guys for spending the time reading, and putting up with my rampant ramblings. I'm pretty much thinking out loud, not censoring anything. I'd rather look stupid, then do stupid.
B!

#13 9 years ago

I like this guy's work.

http://www.pinballninja.com/

search High Speed, he's worked on a few.
A few pics but not incredibly in depth. BUT read what he does, lots of helpful info on machines of that era.

Lots of Luck to ya again.

#14 9 years ago

Yeah, he does some amazing work. To bad he "quit" a month ago. I've snook a peek in the 3 highspeeds he worked on, and then went through most if not all of the system 11's. Just to get an idea of what to look for, sort of.
B!

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