(Topic ID: 169709)

Williams Heat Wave (1964) - Project

By MaxAsh

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 79 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by dr_nybble
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

Heat_Wave_smallarm3 (resized).jpg
Heat_Wave_smallarm2 (resized).jpg
Heat_Wave_smallarm1 (resized).jpg
zHeatWave_Part5 (resized).jpg
Schematic_Part4_ (resized).jpg
cHeat-Wave-pinside-points (resized).jpg
Heat_Wave_Drop (resized).jpg
aSoccer-Work-1 (resized).jpg
cHeat-Wave-Pinside-A (resized).jpg
Schematic_Part2a (resized).jpg
DSC00117 (resized).JPG
DSC00114 (resized).JPG
DSC00113 (resized).JPG
DSC00112 (resized).JPG
aBeat-the-Clock-Safety-snippet (resized).jpg
aBeat-the-Clock-Work-1 (resized).jpg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider rolf_martin_062.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#42 7 years ago

Hi MaxAsh
If the pin would be a "Beat the Clock" ... see JPG-1: "IF (if) the LOCK-Relay does NOT pull: TILT-Relay does pull.

See bottom of JPG-2, 24 VAC-Side: As through magnetism (then) 24VAC is produced: LOCK-Relay pulls and stays pulling --- IF (if) the Knock-off-Switch IS CLOSED. The Knock-off-Switch You can see in post-40, to the right of text "Replay Relay" - and in post-33 (above not-mounted TILT-Switch) -Question: IS THE KNOCK-OFF-Switch CLOSED (as should) ? Greetings Rolf

aBeat-the-Clock-Work-1 (resized).jpgaBeat-the-Clock-Work-1 (resized).jpg

aBeat-the-Clock-Safety-snippet (resized).jpgaBeat-the-Clock-Safety-snippet (resized).jpg

#48 7 years ago

Hi MaxAsh
If the pin would be a "Beat the Clock" ... see JPG-1: "IF (if) the LOCK-Relay does NOT pull: TILT-Relay does pull.
See bottom of JPG-2, 24 VAC-Side: As through magnetism (then) 24VAC is produced: LOCK-Relay pulls and stays pulling --- IF (if) the Knock-off-Switch IS CLOSED. The Knock-off-Switch You can see in post-40, to the right of text "Replay Relay" - and in post-33 (above not-mounted TILT-Switch) -Question: IS THE KNOCK-OFF-Switch CLOSED (as should) ? Greetings Rolf

Hi MaxAsh +
I am not familiar with ONE-Player-Pins - even worse: The oldfashioned "really 5 balls and the window on the apron to look and count the balls" - well, I have my Gottlieb "Ice Revue" and I am glad it runs.

I believe You have TWO faults at the same time and a third rather simple problem:
Thanks for the snippet of schematics (post-45) - on the left, +/- rather up the switches: "Left-Flipper Button Sw.", "Switch on Reset-Relay", "two Switches on Lock-Relay", "hard to read Switch", "Switch on Coin-Relay" --- I looked-up in the ipdb-schematics "Palooka", "Soccer", "San Francisco", (my) "Shangri La" - I believe You can write at "hard to read Switch": 25 Cent Relay (Switch).

Fault-A is (post-39): The Lock-Relay ONLY pulls at the time You press the left Flipper-Button - it does (no longer) pull-in and stay pulling when You let go on the left Flipper-Button.

Fault-B is (post-39): As long as You feed 110 VAC (and therefore magnetism and so 24VAC) - the Tilt-Relay is buzzing. You mentioned in post-39: Tilt-Relay is mounted in the "Bank of Relays, Bank is mounted under the playfield".
dr_nybble (post-46) writes about: "The pin beeing in state 'Game-Over' has the 'Game-Over-Relay' latched and also has the 'Tilt-Relay' latched". In the beginning of his post-46 he advices "manually 'move, reset' the Relay-Bank - then the relays in that bank trip and so reset".
I mentioned "me beeing not familiar with this type of pins" - from post-46 I take: When pressing the left Flipper-Button: The Tilt-Relay is entitled to move*** - Tilt-Relay MUST move***.

Unfortunately (post-45) the portion "Tilt-Relay wiring" is "hard to / not to" read in Your schematics.
Also unfortunately: Williams used several ways of having a Tilt-Relay - Version-A: A simple standalone Relay (one coil) on "Beat the Clock and Soccer", Version-B: A INTERLOCK-Type (two coils) standalone relay on "San Francisco and Palooka", Version-C: An relay in the "Bank of relays, under the playfield" on "Heat Wave (?) and Shangri La".
Great, "Shangri La" has Version-C --- BUT "Shangri La" is a rather modern FOUR-Player-Pin - and my "Shangri La" does NOT move*** the Tilt-Relay when I press the left flipper Button-Switch. So "Shangri La" IS DIFFERENT to "dr_nybble, post-45": "Pressing the left flipper-Button makes the Tilt-Relay move***".
I look-up in the (ipdb) schematics of my Shangri La - at page-5, F-20 I see a "Switch mounted on the Tilt-Relay" - a Switch that opens when the Tilt-Relay is moved***.

Fault-B: I assume this "Switch mounted on the Tilt-Relay" does NOT open when the Tilt-Relay is moved*** --- want to check my theory ?

Fault-A: To work on "Fault-A" You should have solved "Fault-B" - it is awful when You have the (Fault-B) Tilt-Relay buzzing. A rude way to solve Fault-B is: You say "I am friendly to my Heat Wave - I do not bang Tilts - therefore I do NOT need the Tilt-Relay to move*** - so I well can unsolder (for now) one wire to "Coil-on Tilt-Relay" - and this unsoldering hinders the Tilt-Relay to (move and) buzz.
I assume: Fault-A happens because the wiring (Your snippet of schematics, post-45) on Lock-Relay is no good - check the wiring of the Lock-Relay - especially to "Knock-Off Switch, first JPG in post-44, unlabeled" AND check this switch - You well can manipulate this switch to be permanently-closed by wrapping a piece of blank wire around the two solder-lugs on that "Knock-Off- / Tilt-Switch" (((You say "I am friendly to my Heat Wave - I do not bang Tilts - therefore I do NOT need this Switch to open))).

Please buy a schematics --- looking up in several ipdb-schematics / guessing instead of looking-up: Not very pleasing.

Move***: I am german speaking - maybe I HAVE a fault in my understanding of the english terminology, to me "Relays of the different versions" do:
Version-A: Relay pulls and sometimes later let go --- maybe it pulls-in (means pulls and stays pulling) and sometimes later releases / let go.
Version-B: Relay trips - stable state - Relay latches - stable state. To me: When the armature with the Nylon-Ladder with the hooked-in Switchblades moves: The Relay does latch.
Version-C: A Relay trips - tripping is the only thing such a relay can do --- when the whole Bank is resetted: This relay (and all others in the Bank), Relay is resetted. Some switchblades are below a rod - some switchblades are above the rod. The rod is mounted on the armature on the relay - when the relay trips: the rod is moved, when the Bank is resetted: rod is moved.
I look at the Relay-Bank in my Shangri La - I am tempted to say "one relay moves means the relay LATCHES" (((and later the Bank and therefore the relay is resetted))).

So I do have a problem with the terms to use - I want to use the "proper terms" - I guess we agree on "relay will be resetted as the whole Bank is resetted", I believe to remember: Relay in the Bank does trip - well, my question is: Does a relay (in a Bank) LATCH or does it TRIP ??? --- Please clarify / enlighten me.

About "Tilt-Switch / Kick-Off-Switch" - here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/anyone-use-the-kick-off-switch-to-shut-their-50s60s-games-off is a discussion on "using this switch to toggle-off the pin as the very-old pins do not have an 110VAC main power toggle switch". Funny, ipdb mentions to "Jolly Roger, see Notes": http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1314 "FIRST 4-Player-Pin WITH the 110 VAC main power switch".
Greetings Rolf

P.S.: Sometimes I an rude to a pin - I say "I would like to unsolder a wire from a lug (on a coil or rather) on a Switch --- the place is "hard to get at", especially "how in the world can I solder-on-again ???". So I am rude - I take a scissors and I CUT the wire (2 to 3 inches away from where I would like to unsolder) - I take a cigarette lighter and burn away a bit of the insulation (the original color / insulation still is at the short stub on the solder-point, original color is still clearly visible). I then clamp-on the male and female part of a plug on the two endings - I can connect and I can disconnect. These plugs I can buy in K-Mart and such stores, automotive departement, car-electrics - to CLAMP-ON with a plier --- MUCH BETTER than "Banana type" Plugs. And when I have finished my work: I happily make a permanent connection by plugging-in and let the plug in the pin.

P.P.S.: The "move***, TRIP, LATCH" stuff is important to me - please enlighten me.

#51 7 years ago

Hi MaxAsh
I have found the topics in pinside "showing some schematics of Heat Wave" - my first JPG is an extract --- very hard to read. Well I look at the (ipdb) schematics of "Soccer" and I say "wired almost the same or maybe wired exactly the same way". So I squeezed together and show (second JPG) an extract of Soccer schematics.

Look in Your Heatwave at "Coil on Tilt-Relay" --- most likely one side of the coil has soldered-on wire-Black --- what is the wire-color on the OTHER Lug on this coil ? Then, look for a "Normally-CLOSED Switch on Lock-Relay" with a wire of "same color" --- inspect this switch: DOES the switch TRUELY open when the Lock-Relay pulls-in ? ALSO look at the end of the Switchblades of this Switch - where the wires are soldered-on: Has a drop of solder fallen there making faulty always contact ? Or is a blade (there) bent and makes faulty always contact ?
Maybe, hopefully: You can get rid of the problem "pushing the left Flipper-Button makes the Tilt-Relay pulling and humming", greetings Rolf

cHeat-Wave-Pinside-A (resized).jpgcHeat-Wave-Pinside-A (resized).jpg

aSoccer-Work-1 (resized).jpgaSoccer-Work-1 (resized).jpg

2 weeks later
#58 7 years ago

Hi MaxAsh
I look here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1148&picno=32815&zoom=1 and I wonder if Your pin runs correctly. On the right Slingshot the "10 points when lit" is lighted - so here You should get 10 points. On the left slingshot NO light so You should get 10 points. From the fact "only one side is lightet I clue "You have some "Change Relay" that does pull a while --- then does NOT pull for a while --- then does pull for a while --- and so on.

In post-55 You write +/- "Left Kicker SEEMS working fine" - so my questions: Do You get "1 point when not lit" / "10 points when lit" ? In this question is another question - when playing a ball: Does the light ever change ?

I show a snippet of "pinside-schematics" - just below "encircled green" I believe to read: "(6) Stand Up Switches" --- here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1148&picno=8046 I believe "rather up on the playfield behind some rubbers are these simple switches - Do You get these 1 points ?

At "encircled green" I read depending on "Change-Relay is pulling versus Non-pulling": The closing of a "Kicker-Switch" lets current flow to the 1-point-RELAY / 10-point-RELAY. BUT the "Kicker-Switch" MUST open again after closing --- otherwise the Coil on the relays would get "current forever" - therefore the relay would pull forever. ((("Marked orange is (?) Self-Hold-Switch on 1-point-RELAY", "marked red is (?) E.O.S.-Switch on the 1-point-Score-DRUM")))

Hmm, to me (see post-55): The Backstroke (plunger / bolt) does / should CLOSE a Switch (NOT OPEN !) --- see "encircled green" the "Left Kicker Switch" and the "Right Kicker Switch" (?), greetings Rolf

cHeat-Wave-pinside-points (resized).jpgcHeat-Wave-pinside-points (resized).jpg

#60 7 years ago

Hi MaxAsh
great - You fixed a "stuck Playfield-Switch" --- a special form of Playfield-Switch - the one operated by the Slingshot-Kicker. Usually it is a simple stand-up Switch behind a rubber.

The Change-Relay is allowed to pull constantly --- it depends on what position the (stepper) "No-Match-Unit" is. See in Your snippet of schematics - in position 0, 2, 4, 6, 8: NO connection --- and in positions 1, 3, 5, 7, 9: CONNECTION.

Can You locate this stepper ? Toggle-off the pin - UNPLUG the 110 VAC Main Power-Cord (Safety Reasons, Bally lets 48 VAC flowing to the coils !). Manually step this stepper forward by ONE position - then plug-in, toggle-on, start a game --- questions: Does the Change-Relay still pulls constantly ? Has the light on the Slingshots changed ?
We may have to have a closer look at this stepper (mechanical movement - electrical connections).

I live in Switzerland - it is 20 minutes past midnight - time to go to sleep - till tomorrow, greetings Rolf

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider rolf_martin_062.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-heat-wave-1964-project?tu=rolf_martin_062 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.