(Topic ID: 285800)

Williams Gulfstream Flipper Question

By flb_gulfstream

3 years ago


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#1 3 years ago

I have a Williams Gulfstream pinball machine that I brought back to life in June 2020. It's been a fun project and the machine has been played a lot since I got it working again.

I am considering rebuilding the flippers but noticed today that both are marked Gottlieb on the plastic behind the coils. Also the paper on the coils is marked A-5141. When I look up that number, Gottlieb comes up, not Williams.

Did Williams ever use Gottlieb parts in their machines or do you think (as I am already assuming) the flippers in this game were changed out during its long life?

I would like to know which flipper rebuild kit to purchase - one for Gottlieb or one for Williams.

Thanks in advance.

#2 3 years ago

Can you post a picture of your flipper mechs? It could be the mechs were swapped, or just the coils.

#3 3 years ago

Those are not the correct coils, and that was not done by the factory. All of the coils for this game would be labeled as Williams coils. At some point, someone put Gottlieb coils in the machine.

The correct flipper coils for this game per the schematic are FL20-300-28-400.

However, as zacaj points out, it may be that the entire flipper assembly was changed out to use Gottlieb parts, in which case it would probably be complicated to put the original coils back in.

- TimMe

#4 3 years ago

Here are some photos ...

Thanks, again.

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#5 3 years ago

Those still look like williams mechs... The coils installed are much weaker than what should be there

These are the parts you'll need http://www.pbresource.com/KT-WFLIP04.html

#6 3 years ago

Thank you to all.

I will not only rebuild the flipper mechanisms but I will now replace the coils.

#7 3 years ago

I just set up an account and placed an order with The Pinball Resource. I hadn't done business with them before. It was a pleasant experience and will work with them again.

I have used Marco Specialties before. That, too, was a good experience so I will also use them in the future.

It's probably best to spread business over as many of these parts suppliers as possible in order to keep them around.

I can't wait to get the coils and flipper rebuild kits. I am anticipating this will be an entirely different game once those repairs are made.

Thanks again.

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from flb_gulfstream:

I just set up an account and placed an order with The Pinball Resource. I hadn't done business with them before. It was a pleasant experience and will work with them again.
I have used Marco Specialties before. That, too, was a good experience so I will also use them in the future.
It's probably best to spread business over as many of these parts suppliers as possible in order to keep them around.
I can't wait to get the coils and flipper rebuild kits. I am anticipating this will be an entirely different game once those repairs are made.
Thanks again.

Yes, you're gonna truly be stoked once you see how fast those flips move the ball around the table; like every pin game ever made, it's great when everything works properly and as designed. Gulfstream was my first purchase in 1986, and I still have it and play it to this day.

#9 3 years ago

I can see the money pit forming now.

After rebuilding the flippers I will probably talk myself into rebuilding the pop bumper mechanisms and the kick-out hole mechanisms.

My wife will be extremely happy about this.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from flb_gulfstream:

I can see the money pit forming now.
After rebuilding the flippers I will probably talk myself into rebuilding the pop bumper mechanisms and the kick-out hole mechanisms.
My wife will be extremely happy about this.

The kickouts shouldn't require parts... as far as the pops - parts are relatively cheap... skirts about 1$ a piece; spoon switches usually don't need replacing, and WMS bodies hold up well but if they're old, cracked and tired those run about 4$ a piece.. shouldn't break the bank. If you haven't done so, I'd replace your flipper coil stops if they weren't replaced previously.

#11 3 years ago

“Enhanced coil stops” are included in the Williams flipper rebuild kit KT-WFLIP-04 that I ordered from The Pinball Resource.

I will start looking at parts for the pop bumpers. I replaced two cracked skirts when I first got the machine. The metal cages were a little pitted so I tried to polish them but now I wish I would have done a better job (or just replaced them).

I want to look at the coil sleeves on the pop bumpers and kick outs. The new coils for the flippers come with sleeves.

I wasn’t sure I’d ever get the machine running when I first got it so I tried doing just enough to get it going. Now that it’s been running, I’m trying to make things the way they should be. Hopefully I don’t mess something up in my efforts to make things better.

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from flb_gulfstream:

“Enhanced coil stops” are included in the Williams flipper rebuild kit KT-WFLIP-04 that I ordered from The Pinball Resource.
I will start looking at parts for the pop bumpers. I replaced two cracked skirts when I first got the machine. The metal cages were a little pitted so I tried to polish them but now I wish I would have done a better job (or just replaced them).
I want to look at the coil sleeves on the pop bumpers and kick outs. The new coils for the flippers come with sleeves.
I wasn’t sure I’d ever get the machine running when I first got it so I tried doing just enough to get it going. Now that it’s been running, I’m trying to make things the way they should be. Hopefully I don’t mess something up in my efforts to make things better.

Sounds like you're well on your way to learning how to be a super EM Tech... learn by doing beats a book any time.

#13 3 years ago

For pop bumpers, you should replace the yokes, plunger, spring, and sleeve for best action. These DC williams pops can really fly.

#14 3 years ago

Have a look thru this thread. Great ideas all around. Check out my post #82 and then #95 and down.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1973-williams-gulfstream-restoration/page/2#post-5677776

#15 3 years ago

I quickly read through the link. I will go back and take a closer look again while I am waiting for my flipper parts. Nice work and machines in that link.

Are the pop bumpers (jet bumpers) the "AC keyhole style" or "AC/DC standard style"? I see rebuild kits for both styles listed on PBR for Williams.

Here's the question that will start up a new debate (I've seen lengthy discussions on the internet) - should the flipper positions be set using the alignment holes in the playfield or should the flippers be aligned so that the rubber cover is in line with the return lane rods? If the holes are to be used, should the flippers be set so the back of the flipper arms (rubber covers removed) are lined up with the holes?

Thanks.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from flb_gulfstream:

I quickly read through the link. I will go back and take a closer look again while I am waiting for my flipper parts. Nice work and machines in that link.
Are the pop bumpers (jet bumpers) the "AC keyhole style" or "AC/DC standard style"? I see rebuild kits for both styles listed on PBR for Williams.
Here's the question that will start up a new debate (I've seen lengthy discussions on the internet) - should the flipper positions be set using the alignment holes in the playfield or should the flippers be aligned so that the rubber cover is in line with the return lane rods? If the holes are to be used, should the flippers be set so the back of the flipper arms (rubber covers removed) are lined up with the holes?
Thanks.

On Williams ems of this era I've found that usually you want the flipper to be pointing at the alignment hole (eg centered over it), which usually ends up parallel to the return guides.

The pop bumpers aren't keyhole, they're DC. I don't know why they list their other kit as "ac/dc" since they also say it's "starting with Spanish eyes" which was the first dc game. It's a dc kit, which is what you want

#17 3 years ago

Installed the flipper rebuild kit and the correct flipper solenoids yesterday. I also aligned the flippers. What a difference. I didn't know what I was missing.

In comparing the old flipper parts to the new ones, I probably could have kept using the old parts. I am wondering if they had been replaced before. Maybe that's when someone installed the wrong Gottlieb solenoids. I guess now I have a decent set of spare parts for the flippers.

Thanks to everyone who has provided input to this little project. I appreciate everyone's time and expertise.

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