(Topic ID: 235936)

Williams Grand Prix pinball not scoring 500


By pinballman3

1 year ago



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  • 28 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Calipindave
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#1 1 year ago

I have a 1976 Grand Prix pinball I am working on. The problem I am having is the stand up switch on the left side and the right side that is suppose to advance bonus and score 500 points. The switches advance the bonus they are suppose to but they do not score the 500 points or make chime work.. I can score 100 with the spinners and it works and chime works. There is a 500 Relay I see on schematics. In the backbox i think? How is this 500 Relay suppose to work? If i am in the middle of a game should I be able to manually activate the 500 relay and it score the 500? I would appreciate any help. Thanks

#2 1 year ago

Those left and right stand up switches have 2 sets of contact points so depending on their adjustment it may take a little harder hit to both advance and score 500.

Quoted from pinballman3:

should I be able to manually activate the 500 relay and it score the 500?

Yes

#3 1 year ago

Yes, if you manually push in the 500 point relay during an active game, then it should score 500 points... The target switches send power directly to the 500 point relay coil. Check the condition of the target switches and check to make sure the playfield Jones plugs are clean and firmly connected to the main board.

If nothing happens when you manually push in the 500 point relay, check the adjustment on those relay switches and make sure all the switch contacts are clean.

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballman3:

I have a 1976 Grand Prix pinball I am working on. The problem I am having is the stand up switch on the left side and the right side that is suppose to advance bonus and score 500 points. The switches advance the bonus they are suppose to but they do not score the 500 points or make chime work.. I can score 100 with the spinners and it works and chime works. There is a 500 Relay I see on schematics. In the backbox i think? How is this 500 Relay suppose to work? If i am in the middle of a game should I be able to manually activate the 500 relay and it score the 500? I would appreciate any help. Thanks

It should spin the score motor and give you 500 points.

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballman3:

but they do not score the 500 points or make chime work

Things are a bit confusing here: the L&R sw. go into the 500 relay (which is probably in the bottom of the cabinet) which is then supposed to feed 5 pulses to the 100 pt. relay (follow the line around from A22 to E20.5 on the schematic), so what's happening is that those are not getting there. Check the contacts and the solders at the 500 and the wires from it that go to the 100.

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#6 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Those left and right stand up switches have 2 sets of contact points so depending on their adjustment it may take a little harder hit to both advance and score 500.

Yes, more obvious-check those first.

#7 1 year ago

This relay is under the playfield.

#8 1 year ago

Thanks for the reply. The standup switches are good. I had adjusted them earlier to fix another problem. I have the plastics off and have put the standup switches all together manually. I will check the other stuff.

#9 1 year ago

I had a game that wasn't scoring 5000 point switches. my score motor was missing a spacer for the 1000 point relay. So I always recommend checking the switch stacks on the score motor to make sure they're complete. It may be worth testing continuity, if there's a visual indication that it may be problematic (like rust).

#10 1 year ago

I just looked at it and found the 500 relay. The 2 red wires going to the coil were burnt off at the tab. See pic. I had an old coil to replace it with that looked very good. I replaced the coil and now it scores 500 sometimes I manually activate it and then sometimes it only scores 100 other times it scores maybe 200 or 300. It does the same thing if I hit either of the stand up switches. Anyone know what would most likely be the cause of this? I adjusted and cleaned the switches on the 500 relay but it did not change anything.

#11 1 year ago

The pic

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#12 1 year ago

If the 500 relay is clean and functioning, it will trigger the score motor. Only the score motor can increment scores (like 300 or 500) depending o the number of cogs on the wheel. If you are triggering the score motor and sometimes getting two three or five hundred, the likely culprit is power contacts in the switch stack on the reel on the score motor with five cogs.

Dave

#13 1 year ago

These connections are all good?

You also might want to make sure that score motor sw. 5B is clean and making solid contact.

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#14 1 year ago

Thanks. So is the score motor switch what is suppose to hold the 500 relay in until it scores the 500? If i just manually hold the 500 relay in and not just push it then it will just keep scoring 500 over and over. The problem I think has to be in the 500 relay not being held in by what is suppose to hold it in.

#15 1 year ago

currieddog thanks. I have cleaned and gapped all of the switches on the 500 relay. They look good operating. Did you mean Impulse B switch?

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballman3:

Thanks. So is the score motor switch what is suppose to hold the 500 relay in until it scores the 500? If i just manually hold the 500 relay in and not just push it then it will just keep scoring 500 over and over. The problem I think has to be in the 500 relay not being held in by what is suppose to hold it in.

I think that's correct. The switch on the PF triggers the 500 point relay which in turn triggers the score motor. One of the switched on the score motor stack probably acts as a hold on the relay until the cycle is completed.

I am not 100% certain, but check the entire stack on the score motor to make sure they are clean and properly adjusted. If they are report back.

Dave

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballman3:

Did you mean Impulse B switch?

No, it looks like that but it's 5B. Take a look at the whole schematic.

And it's the A sw. on the 500 that does the hold. Make sure it's making solid contact when energized.

#18 1 year ago

I removed the switch stack on impulse and cleaned and made sure gap was good. No change

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballman3:

I removed the switch stack on impulse and cleaned and made sure gap was good. No change

Can you post a full picture of the 500 point relay.

If it is scoring various increments of 100 either the relay is not being held closed during the whole cycle or the switches that get pulsed by the cogs from the score motor going to the score reel or dirty/poorly gapped and not making good contact every time.

Dave

#20 1 year ago

I am confused about the switch on the motor that is the 500 relay lock. These pics are what confused me. It says Impulse B is 500 relay lock and 5 B pulses no 1 star Relay. There is also a pic of the 500 relay. I need to know what motor switch i need to be concentrating on. Thanks

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#21 1 year ago

I seen the bottom finger on the 500 Relay was a little bent but it made good contact. So i bent that finger out a little to make it look better and it makes good contact. It still does the same thing. New pic.

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#22 1 year ago

Focus on this switch A which appears to be on the bottom of the stack of the second wheel on the score motor with five cogs.

Dave

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#23 1 year ago

Now I see. I was confused. I will look at that first thing in the morning. Thanks

#24 1 year ago
Quoted from Calipindave:

Focus on this switch A which appears to be on the bottom of the stack

Don't the rest of the 100 multiples score ok?

#25 1 year ago

Recently it was in this area of the score motor I discovered a short between switch stack soldered connection points, I had to remove each switch stack and closely scrutinize to find it. Boom! Fixed it.

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Don't the rest of the 100 multiples score ok?

Good point.

It appears GP only scores on multiple of 5... is there anything else on the game that scores either 5 hundred or five thousand?

Either way, there are onlt two 5 cog wheels on the score motor and it does not appear that the first one scores anything.

Does the score wheel make a full 180 degree turn when energized or does it stop part way?

Dave

#27 1 year ago

The problem was switch 5B not being adjusted right. It actually took care of a few other things i did not realize was associated with it. Like the ball not kicking out of outhole sometimes for awhile and not kicking out of top hole as quick as it should motor would have to make more turns than it should have to because the 5B switch would only make contact sometimes. After fixing that switch everything works except now the left saucer hole will not kick the ball out after collecting the bonus. Any ideas on the left bonus saucer not kicking ball out? While typing this just happen to think of something and Figured this out maybe the board on the left bonus unit was off from hitting it on cabinet. That is what it was turned about a 1/4 inch. I took the fingers off and tightened the board good where it should be. Thanks for everyone's help.

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballman3:

The problem was switch 5B not being adjusted right. It actually took care of a few other things i did not realize was associated with it. Like the ball not kicking out of outhole sometimes for awhile and not kicking out of top hole as quick as it should motor would have to make more turns than it should have to because the 5B switch would only make contact sometimes. After fixing that switch everything works except now the left saucer hole will not kick the ball out after collecting the bonus. Any ideas on the left bonus saucer not kicking ball out? While typing this just happen to think of something and Figured this out maybe the board on the left bonus unit was off from hitting it on cabinet. That is what it was turned about a 1/4 inch. I took the fingers off and tightened the board good where it should be. Thanks for everyone's help.

Excellent...seeing that 5B has the 500 point relay lock makes that logical.

Good work.

Dave

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