does the reel score during play? That will narrow down the problem. I assume you have a schematic?

Depending on which score reel it is manually activate the related relay to see if the coil fires. For example, if it's the 10's reel, manually activate the 10 point relay to see if it fires the score reel. That will help you determine if it's a problem with the score reel or possibly the related relay.

Definitely check the jones plug and check your fuses to make sure you didn't blow one and didn't realize it. Is/was the game resetting to begin play if the score reels were set to 0?

Hi HD_Fatboy
problems on EM-Pins are from the category "the pin starts --- when playing: XY or ZA or BC or whatsoever does not work" - and the other category is "The pin does not start completely - therefore I cannot play" and in this category the question is: "I plug-in the main power cord - what happens ?" - then I toggle-on the main power switch - what happens ? - I have credits visible on the Replay-Counter-Window in the Backbox and I press the Credit-Button - what happens ? Slowly walking through the Start- / Reset-procedures - at the end the ball is kicked-out (and very modern EM-Pins step the Bonus-Ladder up one bonus). Then the playing and eventually problems of the first mentioned category are in focus.

From Your posts I see that You have found the Reset-Relay - You manually activate it and some stuff happens.
I would like to look at the Backglass when You toggle-on the pin - the lights turn on - do You see in the Backglass lighted "Game Over ? OR IS lighted "Ball in Play" maybe the "1" or the "2" or the "3" or the "4" or the "5" ? WHAT is lighted in the Backglass ?

Instead of manually activating the Reset-Relay: Please manually activate the Coin***-Relay --- what happens ?

Coin***-Relay: A much better name would be: Start-Relay - thats what it is for.
Greetings Rolf

Mike, I have this machine, but not the schematics. Can you post
a pic of the schematics?
Off the top of head, have you cleaned and properly adjusted the
contacts in the Tilt Relay (and maybe Game Over Relay also)..
Can you tell for sure that it hadn't remained on tilt after you were
able to get it to reset?

Hi HD_Fatboy
look here http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1677/Bally_1976_Night_Rider_Manual.pdf (OK - it is a Bally Pin) - see on page-16 the "Game-Over-Relay". It has an armature with an Nylon-Ladder mounted - the armature (this Latch-Armature) in the ipdb-manual-picture is almost vertical. Also mounted is an Trip-armature (almost horizontal in the pic - NO Nylon-Ladder mounted).
Toggle-off Your pin and unplug the main power cord. Look in the bottom of the cabinet in Your pin for the "Game-Over-Relay --- it also has the two armatures mounted - gently press the TRIP-Armature --- plug-in, toggle-on - question: Do You see by now "Game-Over" lit in the Backglass ?
What happens when You press the Credit-Button ? What happens when You manually activate the Coin-Relay ? Greetings Rolf

P.S.: I live in Switzerland, Europe --- it is a quarter to eleven at night --- pretty soon I will go to sleep.

Hi HD_Fatboy +
here http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1072 we can make us a copy of the schematics and the manual.

No Luck - nothing happens - hmm. Tomorrow I will post a snippet of schematics with "stuff to do" - I hope You have some "Jumper-Wire with gator-clips at the ends" --- If You do not have: An insulated wire having bare ends to wrap around a solder-lug also works. Till tomorrow, greetings Rolf

When you manually activate the coin relay, does it go through the reset motions?
If not, how about if you manually activate the reset relay?

Coin Relay adds a player after reset. So after reset, the Game Over light
is not lit and the Game Over Relay does latch..

Test continuity across the wires on both sides of your fuses. Don't test on the fuse, test outside of it. We're trying to rule out bad fuse holders. It happens, just had it happen to me this week on a bally game.

Hi
this post is only about "schematics". I made me an copy of the ipdb-schematics: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1072 I then used an free service and made me four pages of JPG-format. I put three pages into one JPG (6.10 MB data) and let the fourth page "as is" (641 KB data). I freshened-up a bit and made an PDF of 3.26 MB data and one of 370 KB data. I then used a free service to reduce data - and the quality suffers a bit - result: 224 KB data and 22 KB data - these "reduced PDFs"I show here --- You may have to do a "right-hand-side" mouse-click into the stuff - then use "Save target as ..." to make You copies so You can look at.

I wonder how pinside can live with us uploading every day tons of data - I do not upload MB data files --- IF (if, if) You want the (slightly better quality): Write me an PM with an EMail-Adress and I will send You copies --- it is originally ipdb-stuff --- write what You want - JPG or PDF or both.
Well, actually I believe: The stuff here is readable - reasonable quality --- but I can send the bigger data files. Greetings Rolf

0Grand-Prix-Total-Sepia-orpalis.pdf

0Grand-Prix-page-four-orpalis.pdf

Diagnose this circuit to see why.

Pinball (resized).png

Hi
this time I do not agree with Howard --- my JPG shows "green" (first not shown is the activating of the Coin-Relay) - the Coin-Relay made pulling-in closes its switch - current can flow through the closed switch on Game-Over-Relay (as in the beginning the relay is tripped) and current reaches Reset-Relay - it pulls-in and throws its switch - the rest on the green lines (downwards in the JPG) starts happening.

As the Reset-Relay pulls-in: It also establishes along "red lines" its "Self-Hold-Current until ALL Scoredrums (and more stuff) are resetted".
HD_Fatboy - do You see why I asked You to TRIP the Game-Over-Relay - then actuate the Coin-Relay --- I was hoping for "green lines stuff - then red lines stuff".

I miss the information on "Did the pin EVER fully run in Your possession" ?
Another thing I would like to know - Do You want proceed on AAA ? Or do You want to proceed on BBB ?

AAA: We start at the beginning and look through "Starting and then resetting ..."
BBB: You kind of start / reset by actuating the Reset-Relay - we then try to "get action on the Playfield ..."
Greetings Rolf

0Grand-Prix-pinside-A-Work (resized).jpg

Hi HD_Fatboy
I would like to do ONE try on the "BBB" track (as You get some results with manually activating the Reset-Relay). Look at the JPG - this is "HOT side connection" to all coils - on the left You see the 24VAC fuse --- then "my grey line", "my blue line", "my brown line", my rosa/ pink line to bumpers and kickers and flipperbats and more. Once the pin has started and the reset has been done and You never bang a tilt: Current flows .... rosa/pink to all the relays etc.
You do not have action on the flipper bats so lets try and cheat a bit: We FORCE connection.
Your gator-clips on Your Jumper-Wires MUST HAVE INSULATION - You NEVER shall touch bare wires - You would touch 24VAC POWER /JUICE - You could be killed by the current flowing through YOU !!!.
Toggle-off the pin - unplug the main power cord. Locate the Switch on the Tilt-Relay with wire-red and wire red-yellow-white. Clip-on a Jumper-Wire at the solder-lug "red" - take the other end of the Jumper-Wire all around stuff - through the open Coin-Door - out into the open - let it hang - NOT touching metal. Take a second Jumper-Wire - locate the 24VAC-Fuse with wire-black-yellow-white and wire-black. Clip-on at the fuseholder "SIDE-WIRE-BLACK" !!!!! - then take the other end of the Jumper-Wire all around stuff - through the open Coin-Door - out into the open - let it hang - NOT touching metal. LATCH the Game-Over-Relay.
Then plug-in, toggle-on - do Your way of starting (manually actuating the Reset-Relay) - pin comes to idle. NOW a friend or You hold the Jumper-Wires together grabing the Jumper-Wires at the insulation --- the other of "You and Your friend": Tries the flippers, tries the bumpers.

AGAIN: You NEVER shall touch bare wires - You would touch 24VAC POWER /JUICE - You could be killed by the current flowing through YOU !!!.

IF the stuff (see above) brings live to Your playfield: We then may proceed in the BBB.
IF nothing happens: We sigh and we do the AAA way. Greetings Rolf

P.S. - Switches on the schematics: The schematics is drawn at a moment in the life of the pin --- The start-up and reset has been done and the first ball is kicked-over to the shooter-alley - THEN the main power-cord is unplugged. Strange - but thats the way the schematics is drawn.

0Grand-Prix-Work-35 (resized).jpg

Hi HD_Fatboy
We have a problem with the Game-Over-Relay --- please always use the term "Game-Over-Relay is tripped means we see 'Game-Over' in the Backbox" or then use the term "Game-Over-Relay is latched - we do NOT see 'Game-Over' in the Backbox".
The half of the problem is: To start a new game: Game-Over-Relay must be tripped so (JPG in post-30) the switch "my green star" is closed - when the Coin-Relay pulls-in - along my green lines and upwards through "closed green star switch": The Reset-Relay does pull-in.
The second half of the problem is - when the resets start then the Game-Over-Relay is made to latch - at the end of resetting - see JPG in post-32, my grey line and my blue line and the SWITCH in between: This switch must close - be closed as the Game-Over-Relay latches --- then with the other switches closed: We get power-connection to the playfield-stuff.

Please try: Toggle-off the pin and unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - take a wooden stick and practice - with the wooden stick do "trip" the Game-Over-Relay" - then with the wooden stick do "latch" the relay --- do this many times - get practice with the wooden stick to trip and to latch.

Then TRIP the Game-Over-Relay - plug-in, toggle-on, start a game - use the wooden stick and (if the Game-Over-Relay has not latched on its own) : LATCH the Game-Over-Relay - what happens - can You play ?

In the backbox we can see "One can play" or "two can play" or "three can play" or "four can play" - when You toggle-on - start a game - WHAT do You see in that spot in the backbox "1 or 2 or 3 or 4" ?

Tilt-Relay problem: The best way to me would be / is: You unsolder wire-yellow-red away from the Coil on the Tilt-Relay --- the relay shall never pull-in - we are troubleshooting other problems - we do not want the Tilt-Relay to make more problems - for a while: You "put out of order the Tilt-Functionality" --- once the pin runs: We come back and look at the Tilt-Problem. Greetings Rolf

Hi HD_Fatboy
one problem is "You writing - me writing - at the (almost) same time" --- the following is written "not knowing Your post-39":

Hi HD_Fatboy
thanks for the picture of the Tilt-Relay. Grumble - sometimes the manufacturers use "generic (color of) wire" for the short connection "coil to switch mounted on the relay" - see my short dashes of yellow in the short wire - question - at the solder-lug on the switch: Is THERE a wire yellow-red soldered-on ?
I marked "burgundy-red the solder-lug on the coil to unsolder that short wire - tape the "bare, unsoldered end".

And so I start studying post-39 --- and will answer within half an hour - greetings Rolf

Hmmmmm -
and so I start studying post-39 and post-40 --- please wait until I have answered, greetings Rolf

0Grand-Prix-Tilt-Relay-pinside-Work-01 (resized).jpg

Hi HD_Fatboy
from post-40 I read: You can make the pin to reset - and You can (+/-) play one ball. You then loose the played ball - and nothing happens - the pin should step down the "lit bonus-ladder" - the pin does not do it - and (second problem) the EJect-Holes do not work. On these two problems we will have to invest some time / work - so

I would like to look at the problem "starting a game with the Game-Over-Relay tripped": The Game-Over-Relay must latch - it does not - why ?
Maybe the coil is bad or somewhere in the connection a wire has broken ---
To test for the question "when we force connection - does the Game-Over-Relay latch ?" : Toggle-off the pin - prepare "my yellow jumpering" - then toggle-on and "start a game" - pin comes to idle - NOW make the connection and watch the Game-Over-Relay - DOES the LATCH-Side Coil PULL ?
To learn about the connections - see my blue dot - question: At Start-up: DOES the Coin-Unit-Reset-Coil fire ? (it should / must).

It is a quarter after eleven at night - (most likely) : Till tomorrow, greetings Rolf

0Grand-Prix-pinside-A-Work-Save (resized).jpg

Hi HD_Fatboy
this post is only theory / reading schematics (a post on troubleshooting to come).
A good thing to know is "top of the JPG, marked burgundy-red": A feature (maybe: To make 500 points - five times 100 points) needing the help of the Score-Motor turning - doing a turn of 180 degrees: The feature fires a short (in time) shot of electricity to the Motor - the motor starts running - immediately the switchstack on the Index-Cam (see my red-brown arrow) is lifted and so the topmost two switchblades get together --- stay together until by turning - coming to the end of the turn (of 180 degrees): The switchstack moves downwards and the two blades separate --- we call these to "topmost blades (switch) on Index-Cam on the motor" the "Self-Hold-Switch of the Score-Motor".
O.K. - when we work on a feature needing a turn of the motor (60% to 80% of the features NEED the help, thats my guess): We gently press DOWN the topmost-blade and let go --- the motor makes a turn (of 180 degrees). Good to know this blade --- want to try - when the pin is ready to play a ball - and so the pin idles: Gently press down the blade and let go --- the motor makes a turn.

Reading schematics because "lets say" when starting a game the Score-Drum "10 points" of Player-One does NOT reset (((we say reset - actually it is stepping forward to finally reaching position-zero on a drum))). We look in the list of relays and coils (schematics) - get the information of "1st Player 10 Pt. D.U. (Drum Unit) is located at schematics-E-10" --- I show this area in the JPG --- see the coil on the drum "my brow-Q, my rosa/pink-3". Towards left in the JPG I marked "rosa/pink wiring" and "blue wiring" --- TWO ways of activating the coil.

When we are playing - example: player-one - and make 10 points: The "10-point-relay" is made actuating - this relay closes switch "my rosa/pink-1" --- the Player-Unit (rosa/pink-2) is in position for Player-One --- current can flow and so the "rosa/pink-3" actuates.

But we are (as we do the "lets say ... starting ...") troubleshooting on the resetting --- the "brown O, P, Q" stuff is interesting us. Before the "O P Q" stuff can happen: A lot has to be done before ---
We start a game - the Coin-Relay is made pulling - the pulling Coin-Relay makes the motor to run - the pulling Coin-Relay closes its switch "my green A" - the running motor closes "my green B" - the "C Coil" fires. Also the Game-Ocer-Relay is still tripped at this time - so "my green D" is closed - current flows to "my green E" - the Reset-Relay pulls-in - it one of its closing switches makes the motor to run - the Reset-Relay pulling also closes its Self-Hold-Switch (my red F) - the many closed switches "G H I J" together with the "closed F": along the "my red lines" the "E" stays pulling, pulling, pulling for a long*** time. Within this long*** time: Along the "my brown lines" the "G H I J" also closed - together with the running motor - the "brown K-Switch" pulses the "L", the "brown M" pulses the "brown N and the brown O". Great - we have the "my brown O - the No. 1 Reset-Relay" pulsing - so the "same letter, the 'O'-Switch pulses" - when "switch O" closes and the Score-Drum is not yet in Zero-Position: "my brown P" is closed --- the "my brown Q - the Score-Drum makes a step". This "makes a step" is done and done and done until the Score-Drum reaches its Zero-Position*** - then "my brown P" opens --- no more pulses to the "my brown Q - THIS DRUM-UNIT IS RESETTED".
It is a long*** time the "my green E" does constantly pulls - the motor may do many turns --- but with the resetting of the bonus-ladders and the resetting of all Score-Drums on all four Players: "my red G H I" open - the motor turns to the end of the actual turn - the "my red J" opens --- the "my green E" looses connection - let go and so "my red F" opens --- end of the feature "resetting".

Zero-Position*** on a Score-Drum: Here http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/415/Williams_1968_Cabaret_Instruction_Manual_no_schematics.pdf at page-15 (ori-13) (upper right corner) the two "Zero Switches" - open in Position Zero. One of these two switches is "my brown P" --- the other of these two switches is "(one of the twenty) my red I".

An excellent description of "Bally Bon Voyage - ONE-Player-Pin - Add-A-Ball-Pin" - xsvtoys made the descrition on his pin - here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-schematic-fully-described-from-beginning-to-end-bally-bon-voyage ipdb has http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=343 the schematics and the manual to download. When You study the topic You will learn about "generic stuff" - Bally has the same logic in the pins as Williams has. Having a FOUR-Player-REPLAY-Pin (You have): The stepping on the ball is made different in the "Bon Voyage" - but the topic is very good to learn about "Starting and playing a play".

SteveFury made a great video:

the starting of "Williams Space Mission" - about the same as Your "Grand Prix" --- ipdb has http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2253 the sche matics and the manual. Watch the video and study the schematics. Greetings Rolf

0Grand-Prix-Work-36 (resized).jpg

Hi HD_Fatboy
the "G H I J" stuff in the JPG in post-44 --- actually the "I" stuff --- the 20 Score-Drums to be resetted --- a long time ago I once tried to explain - there were 16 (not 20) Score-Drums to be resetted - want to read the "16 men sitting in a room (almost dark)" explanation: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/help-with-williams-dealers-choice#post-2541079 . Greetings Rolf

Hi HD_Fatboy
this is info to everybody - I struggle with "troyans - malware - whatever name" --- I might be blocked-off from pinside all of a sudden. Greetings Rolf

P.S.: sure - I try to help with posting suggestions (to come)

Hi HD_Fatboy
what exactly does not work on the "left Eject-Hole ? See the JPG --- "my blue lines": The coil on the left Eject-Hole kicks together with the coil on the right Eject-Hole.

"My green lines": A Bonus-Unit must be stepped down to Zero - then the Eject-Relay is activated.
(((My red lines show the 'establishing Self-Hold-Circuitry' on the relay - the relay closes its "Self-Hold-Switch"))) Greetings Rolf

0Grand-Prix-Work-37 (resized).jpg