(Topic ID: 270132)

Williams Grand Prix Kickout too powerful!!!


By Martinh

69 days ago



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  • 23 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by Martinh
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 69 days ago

Hi all,

We have a lovely Williams Grand Prix circa 1976 and I’ve been restoring it to full working order over the last year or so. Couldn’t believe it the first time I lifted up the play field and saw the circuit diagram

Everything is (almost) working now, however the right hand kickout (I think that’s what it’s called) actuator is too powerful and the ball always hits the glass when the ball is ejected. The left hand one is good and is just the mirror image of the RH one. I’ve compared the two and the 2 coils, springs etc. are the same. The operation of the two mechanisms is the same with no binding, same spring resistance etc.

Any ideas as to the best way to reduce the power of the RH one, without compromising the function or reliability? I thought of adding an inline resistor to the coil circuit to increase the resistance and therefore reduce the power - what do you think?

Or am I missing something?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Martin

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#2 69 days ago

make sure the plungers are the same length. A shorter plunger gives a stronger kick. It might have been swapped out at one time.

#3 69 days ago

You can try bending the kicker arm a bit to the side. It'll redirect the aim of the kicker a bit and often lessen the power

#4 69 days ago

^^^

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#5 69 days ago

You need to replace those flippers with Williams flippers.

#6 68 days ago

This is just the info I needed, thank you - just to add that I checked the coil resistance of left and right hand coils and they are both the same at around 2.5 ohms, so no problem there.

- Checked the plunger lengths - all good

- Just tweaked the arm a bit, as the right hand side always sent the ball straight down the middle (grrrr...) now sorted!!! Really pleased about this, as it’s always been a big frustration.

- Are the flippers not original? Gotta check this out. Do the Williams ones make a difference to the play or is it just cosmetic?

Thank you for your help so far.

Stay safe,

Martin

#7 68 days ago

You’re flippers are gottlieb it looks like. Gameplay might be different. The Williams flippers are the skinny ones. Just look up images of Grand Prix.

#8 68 days ago

Unless those flippers are a significantly different weight that the OEM Williams type, I doubt you would detect a lot of difference in gameplay. A changeout would be mostly a cosmetic thing.

#9 68 days ago
Quoted from Martinh:

Just tweaked the arm a bit, as the right hand side always sent the ball straight down the middle (grrrr...) now sorted!!! Really pleased about this, as it’s always been a big frustration

An important thing to remember is the kickout is never going to be the same every time, the physics of the ball constantly spinning, even when it’s sitting in the kick hole, will cause the ball to veer a little to the left or right when kicked out. That is unless it comes to a dead stop while sitting in the hole.

Quoted from Runbikeskilee:

Unless those flippers are a significantly different weight that the OEM Williams type, I doubt you would detect a lot of difference in gameplay. A changeout would be mostly a cosmetic thing.

I would have to strongly disagree with this. The skinner Williams flippers with the more fine point at the end does change gameplay. I played a Triple Strike with Bally flippers on it, my friend and I both notice that it made the gameplay much different than mine.

#10 68 days ago

Yes, definitely Gottlieb type - not original.

I can get some Williams-type replacement ones from PinParts.co.uk for £14 (18 dollars) for the pair - not sure if it's worth the cost though

I'll maybe keep and eye out on Ebay for some originals.

The kickout is now much better - it only goes down the middle sometimes - mostly hits the flipper end.

It's getting there - almost perfect play now although i did notice another little issue this morning - that will have to wait.

My favourite part of playing this game is that moment when you hit the ball just right and the spinner goes crazy...

Martin

p.s I'm trying to upload a video but it won't let me - any ideas?

#11 68 days ago
Quoted from Martinh:

I'm trying to upload a video but it won't let me - any ideas?

Upload to youtube and post a link here.

#12 68 days ago

OK, here goes:

#13 68 days ago

Hard to be certain but it looks like the metal post just left of the spinner is missing its rubber ring. That would scratch the ball and wear the nearly irreplaceable playfield.

#14 68 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Hard to be certain but it looks like the metal post just left of the spinner is missing its rubber ring. That would scratch the ball and wear the nearly irreplaceable playfield.

Hi HowardR,

It’s not the original but it does have a rubber sleeve on it now. The originals were bent out of shape and had been replaced with to ones that can be seen in the photos below - I’ve now found a supplier, but am not sure which posts to order.

There seems to be several types to choose from. Also the hole has a stripped thread, so would need ones with a threaded shaft that has a washer and nut underneath.

Does anyone know what size/shape/part no. to use?

Also notice from the video that the machine has no chime box - must have been discarded over 40 years ago, when it used to be in a local cafe. The french government apparently introduced or increased taxes on these types of machines and they all became unprofitable overnight.

I thought about sourcing a replacement chime box, but they seem to be very difficult to find.

See photos below for the dodgy-looking posts:

Martin

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#15 68 days ago

What are we looking for here (post #12), that the "Spinner Scores" lite goes on part way in?

#16 68 days ago

I had a similar problem with strong kickers on my Space Mission. I contacted Steve Young at PBR and he sold me new coils that are slightly weaker.

#17 68 days ago
Quoted from currieddog:

What are we looking for here (post #12), that the "Spinner Scores" lite goes on part way in?

Yeah, that’s strange indeed.

The ball came straight off the flipper into the spinner lane and it looks like it incremented the right bonus by 5000 as it went through. As it had then reached the max (50,000) it then set the spinner score to 1000. Usually, the only way to increase bonus is via the top kickout or the 2 side stand-up switches.

Does that sound like a good assessment?

Martin

#18 68 days ago
Quoted from Martinh:

I thought about sourcing a replacement chime box, but they seem to be very difficult to find.

They're on ebay from time to time. The one on there now is kind of expensive at over $100 (OBO) and admits to being untested.

#19 68 days ago

Spinner, top saucer, and switches in the lower playfield under the saucers advance bonus on their respective side.

#20 67 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Spinner, top saucer, and switches in the lower playfield under the saucers advance bonus on their respective side.

OK, so the spinner increments the bonus too. Is that one bonus step per full cycle of the spinner unit?

Just looking at the circuit drawing, it looks like the spinner unit triggers the R advance relay, which in turn triggers the R bonus step up relay - does that make sense? I’m new to reading circuits, so want to make sure I’m reading it correctly:

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#21 67 days ago

Each spin advances the red inserts and it takes 10 spins to advance the bonus.

#22 66 days ago

Thanks all for your help - made a few more tweaks and she’s going great.

Had a mega 4-player tournament this afternoon and everything worked perfectly, except for my playing - I came last in all the matches . Even the dog beat me (see below).

Cheers,

Martin

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2 months later
#23 2 days ago

Hi all,

Just a little update on my kickout power issue - the right hand one was ejecting the ball so fast that it always hit the glass . The ball was also always going straight down the middle - Grrr......

I’ve now solved the problem by bending the end of the ball eject cam a little bit and by also adding a 1.8 ohm resistance in series with the eject unit coil.

I started off with a 3.9 ohm resistor (too weak) and added Others in parallel until I was happy with the result.

The modification is shown below.

The machine is now playing pretty much perfectly now.

Cheers,

Martin

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