(Topic ID: 275505)

williams grand prix #2 revival

By vipertblck

11 months ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 months ago by vipertblck
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 11 months ago

getting the second game going. has a doorbell for freeplay on front joining a yellow/red & blue/orange wires. I traced these wires on my other game and they just dead end into a pig tail by the coin door. anyway; pushing the freeplay button upon turning the game on; it just keeps spinning the score motor and cam assembly non-stop. first things first is to get this to stop. would like to attempt to figure this on my own but not sure where to start, as what things would trigger the assembly to continuously spin. playfield and head aren't going crazy and resetting or anything.

#2 11 months ago

Which one(s) of these switches/relays are keeping the motor running?

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#3 11 months ago

I'm not familiar with EM trouble shooting but I've done a repop translite if your BG is shot. PM if interested.

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#4 11 months ago

I looked at Grand Prix as the ultimate EM challenge just from comments of various Owners.
The example I bought had not been workable for 10 years and had rat chewed wiring. Despite
pulling out all boards and intensive care with every switch my game still suffers from a glitch, a
ghost with the scoring.
But its close enough to be fun.
Grand Prix is a EM that truly plays like an SS.

#5 11 months ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Which one(s) of these switches/relays are keeping the motor running?
[quoted image]

don't laugh, still learning all this. but did you find that because just backtracked the score motor to the switches and relays that feed it from the main yellow wire? if so, why not the "reset relay" too? or does the bold and "hump" over the orange/green wire mean it isn't tied into that same circuit?

thanks

#6 11 months ago
Quoted from vipertblck:

why not the "reset relay" too?

Because your original post mentioned the score motor as your symptom. If the Reset relay is stuck on, diagnosing that would be the next step.

#7 11 months ago

well we got somewhere. the "500 relay" on the playfield is on. checked all others & they were off, except the L & R bonus relays, wasn't sure which ones those were as my little tags have fallen off in some places. well have to see if I understand how to follow and read the schematic for the 500 point relay. looks like it's a yellow wire with orange/green coming out for 1, but have to dig deeper for the other 2 switches on that relay as well.

#8 11 months ago

here's where im at. this 500 relay is triggered by L or R stand-up switches...what are these switches? googling tells me their the 4 playfield switches that stand like a posted red sign, and when the ball hits them they drop down, is this correct? if that's true I don't see any problems with the 4 of them, no wires touching or contacts out of wack.
with switches in the up position, the middle contacts are closed and the two outer contacts are open, with the switch in the down position (ball hits it), the middle contacts are open, and the two outer contacts are closed. to my understanding, 1 of these 4 stand up switches, are the only way this 500 relay is going to be engergized? once the relay is energized it creates/breaks the electrical path for the score motor, and 2 other switches. something is triggering this relay ON and I can't figure out what/why, as the only thing's im understanding to turn it on, are these stand-up target switches...

#9 11 months ago
Quoted from vipertblck:

500 relay is triggered by L or R stand-up switches...what are these switches?

Looking at this picture of the playfield, I see just below the left and right eject holes, switches behind rubber bands that are labelled "500"
https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1072&picno=35542&zoom=1

#10 11 months ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Looking at this picture of the playfield, I see just below the left and right eject holes, switches behind rubber bands that are labelled "500"
https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1072&picno=35542&zoom=1

yup! that was it! one switch was all constant NC. adjusted that and now it's good! well....good as in moved on to the next problem-you can select players and all but once you hit a target to rack up any points, something just gets stuck on, no matter what target you hit. didn't dig into this at that point. happy we got one thing fixed and said the hell with it for now. will move onto the points scoring issue with targets and get back to everyone here once I do.

wanna say thanks again to all that have helped and walked me through the steps and pointed me in the right direction. helps a lot when ur "the new guy" like me

thanks again

#11 11 months ago

so once you shoot a ball and it hits any sort of scoring target; it just sticks the ball index relay on, but doesn't advance any scoring reels. my manual shows this relay is triggered by the 10, 100, 1000, or 10,000 point relays, thru switch on extra ball relay, and also tilt relay. so im assuming that one of the scoring targets is my issue. if one were stuck on (closed) wouldn't it constantly keep trying to rack up scoring? and does this mean that all the scoring targets go through the extra ball relay, or is this saying that the extra ball relay could be another option as to why it's sticking on the ball index relay?

#12 11 months ago

What are the scoring relays (the 10, 100, 1000, or 10,000 point relays) doing when this happens?

Quoted from vipertblck:

im assuming that one of the scoring targets is my issue.

Unlikely

Quoted from vipertblck:

it just sticks the ball index relay on,

This is normal

#13 11 months ago
Quoted from HowardR:

What are the scoring relays (the 10, 100, 1000, or 10,000 point relays) doing when this happens?

Unlikely

This is normal

seems like the scoring relays may have just been dirty. now it's scoring on the reels and going through for "most" of them. if I hit a target on the playfield or tick the relay with my finger for the 10 as example, it cycles the scoring reel. all except the 10,000, this one locks the relay on but doesn't advance the scoring reel. if I manually go in and trigger that coil by hand, it releases the 10k relay. it does this for any player, 1 through 4. also a few switches aren't scoring on the playfield and the ball drain switch doesn't acknowledge the ball has drained.

#14 11 months ago
Quoted from vipertblck:

except the 10,000, this one locks the relay on but doesn't advance the scoring reel

If the 10,000 Point relay doesn't activate the 1st player 10,000 drum unit solenoid, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

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#15 11 months ago

again, just dirty contacts I think. started at the relay and did continuity checks. some of the switches in there weren't very good; cleaned them and not it fires the scoring reel (for player 1) just fine. moving along very nicely.

only major things left are the targets that shoot the ball out (one in the top center of playfield, one middle left, and one middle right) don't work or score, and the ball drain switch doesn't acknowledge the ball has drained

#16 11 months ago

going to try and just clean the contacts and points on some eject switches, as well as the bonus units(those make noise sometimes with the coils when I trigger a certain relay), and also the player unit (the one in the head that illuminates which player is up). I've cleaned switches before, but what's the proper way to clean the points and contacts on those bakelite pieces; such as the player unit, L & R bonus units?

#17 11 months ago

dug into this further as to why the ball doesn't shoot out once it's drained. did continuity checks all the way from the outhole switch, to the alternator relay, to the L&R bonus unit zero switches, L&R bonus unit relays, and from those relays down to the outhole relay. seems there's a black and blue wire coming out of each bonus unit relay and going to the outhole relay coil. anyway it still doesn't work and spit the ball out. if i hold closed the outhole switch and ld the L or R bonus unit relay with my finger, it'll cycle the cam and fire the outhole relay. so this tells me the problem is within the L or R bonus unit relays?

#18 11 months ago

those williams should have the kickout relay under the playfield ? i just use the small files to clean points on the bonus relays & sandpaper the little copper rivets, problem could possibly be score motor points also for the kickouts to work.

#19 10 months ago

FOUND IT! issue is the cam isn't stopping in the correct space. there's M.B. switch stack on cam index C. when in the correct position, this switch stack connects yellow and a black/blue wire, thus supplying voltage all the way down path! if I took the yellow wire and applied that directly to the red/white wire on the outhole switch (as it would be during normal operation), it fires the ball release coil everytime u hit the switch. so, my problem lies in the came not stopping in the correct spot. how do I fix or align this?

on the index cam, you can see the switch stack is open, riding on the cam. the "divit" in the cam wheel is at about the 11 o clock position, when it needs to be in the 12 o clock position for correct operation (to get voltage to the outhole switch). is there a procedure for adjusting the cams correctly? i'll dig through the instruction manual but don't remember anything in there.

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