(Topic ID: 169622)

Williams getaway not starting

By Mr_Tantrum

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

image (resized).jpg
1474938384688-2052583067 (resized).jpg
#1 7 years ago

I apologize for the double post, but after putting under Getaway club, thought I should add to tech forum.

I've had the Mezel ignition switch on my pin for a few months, but today it stopped working. The light still illuminates but it will not start a game. Also, in the switch test it shows as open and will not close. Unfortunately, I cannot find what I did with the original start button (probably threw it away) any ideas? Also, I have fully cycled power and unplugged/plugged both connectors on the switch.

Also, just tried to "jumpstart" by manually touching two starter wires but nothing happens (I am assuming this would close the circuit). Just determined that plumb bob tilt is not closing either (they share a Green/brown wire).

Everything else appears to be working normally via test modes.

#2 7 years ago

Next I'd check continuity of wiring from switch to CPU. A break along the way is a possibility.

LTG : )

#3 7 years ago

I have continuity on green/brown wire from the start connector to both J6 connectors and J1 connector and plumb bob on A-14689 board (coin door interface). Also have continuity from start connector to backbox connector J212.

I also have continuity on white/orange wire from start connector to J6 connector and to J212.

#4 7 years ago

Do you have the correct number of balls in the game? In test mode, do all balls register in the trough? I had an issue like this on a whondunnit and couldnt start a game since a ball wasnt registering.

#5 7 years ago

Yes, 3 balls. Left, center, and right trough show closed. Whenever I remove each of the balls then corresponding trough switch opens. Returned all the balls and machine injects them into trough, thus closing 3 switches again.

#6 7 years ago

Briefly short the two wires at the CPU and see if it registers in test or starts a game.

LTG : )

#7 7 years ago

So at J212 remove the connector and short the 2 pins where green/brown and white/orange connect?

I did this (pins 1 and 7), and nothing happens.

Also did 1 and 8 (plumb bob) and nothing happens in switch test.

Tested front door switch on that same J212 and it works.

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

I did this (pins 1 and 7), and nothing happens.

Also did 1 and 8 (plumb bob) and nothing happens in switch test.

Any battery damage on CPU ? I'd be thinking something wrong on the CPU at this point.

LTG : )

#9 7 years ago

No, battery is external sitting on floor of backbox, and batteries are clean. Also, tested front door switch on J212 successfully.

#10 7 years ago

Trying to think. I did just replace 3 supercharger optos yesterday, but thought I played since then (maybe I just tested). I'm now wondering if there could be a relationship between new optos and start issue. The optos all test correctly.

#11 7 years ago

Well, I removed CPU board and with visual inspection everything looks good. I have not removed batteries or ROM chip yet, but not sure what difference that would make.

I also redid my 3 new optos but that changed nothing. I believe it is coincidence but the 3rd opto, black LED has the same two wire colors as the start button. These run to the controller board on the underside of the table. Also, all 3 optos test perfectly.

Does anyone have any additional ideas/direction?

#12 7 years ago

Why did you replace the three optos? I've had issues with those optos but the problem was with the board under the playfield not the optos themselves. (look at the plugs and ensure you plugged those in right) I'm not familiar with the start switch mod you speak of but something else has changed and your unaware of the change to be able to communicate it here. For the game not to "start" from what your describing is illogical.

#13 7 years ago

I replaced 1 pair of optos (#3) because it was failing switch test and the clear opto on #2 because that was the only one I had not replaced out of the 6 since I bought the machine several months ago (I figured all the others had gone bad, so I might as well do the last one now).

This may just be coincidental, as all the optos test good now but even manually shorting the appropriate pins on J212 of the MPU will not register the start or tilt switches being closed (I can however jumper the pins and trigger the coin door switch).

#14 7 years ago

New info, on a suggestion in the Getaway thread, user predicted that my 4 freeway switches would not be working either and he is correct. Thinks it might be a bad U20, but I don't know what/where that is and am awaiting his response. Thoughts?

#15 7 years ago

Okay, U20 is a ULN2803A which appears to control pin 1 on J212 (among other things). Seems like I may need to replace this chip first, or at worst replace the MPU Board. Thoughts?

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

New info, on a suggestion in the Getaway thread, user predicted that my 4 freeway switches would not be working either and he is correct. Thinks it might be a bad U20, but I don't know what/where that is and am awaiting his response. Thoughts?

U20 is an IC on the cpu board. Its possible it was shorted or failed.

You can test it, but it should probably be replaced

#17 7 years ago

Replaced U20 and issue still exists - no switch on column one of the matrix registers. Am I looking at bad MPU board? This board had been repaired previously due to battery leakage before I bought it several months ago.

#18 7 years ago

Can you post a video of turning the game on and pushing the start button? This is a really curious problem. I assume the game worked for a bit yes?

#19 7 years ago

Yes, game has worked for a few months since I've had it. Vid would really not show anything extra. Game is fully lit with DMD going, but turning key, activating plumb bob tilt, and pressing 4 freeway switches do not register in test mode. Commonality to all this is column 1 of the switch matrix which is controlled by U20.

#20 7 years ago

This has been covered in a few threads but the start button should have a diode tied in somewhere. To jump it requires a diode, banded side at J206-1 (you replaced U20 which controls that) and the non banded side to J209-3 should jump start it. Assuming the switches for opto# 3 register as closed in switch edge test still. Gear shift Low is normally open and DOES close when you actually hit the shifter in the switch edge test. If all of these fail look close at the traces for U18 since you mentioned an acid repair. U18 is a LM339 which is the the right side of the mpu, out of the way from acid leak but stranger things have happened.

#21 7 years ago

Ok, pull the connector slightly to expose a bit of the pin for the Green-brown wire. Use your DMM set to ohms is my favorite looking for breaks as Lloyd suggested. One lead to the pin that's exposed and the the other to the first switch. You have an interruption somewhere for sure.

#22 7 years ago

I'll get crucified for suggesting this but most of us don't have spare brand new idc connectors laying around. Resistance should be under 0.5, odds are you'll need to pull the wire out of the idc, cut it back about a 1/4" and jam it back into the idc with a fine sharp screwdriver (carefull you don't stab your hands) problem solved.. for about a year but write in your notepad to replace that connector.

#23 7 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

Replaced U20 and issue still exists - no switch on column one of the matrix registers. Am I looking at bad MPU board? This board had been repaired previously due to battery leakage before I bought it several months ago.

Did you check and ring out the traces, voltage and ground to u20? Do you have continuity from J207 pin 1 to u20 pin 18? And then from u20 pin 1 to u14 pin 9?

#24 7 years ago

You can find this on the pinwiki, wpc 89 mpu layout

1474938384688-2052583067 (resized).jpg1474938384688-2052583067 (resized).jpg

#25 7 years ago

I get correct resistance full length of wire from switch to board. When I disconnect the switches and manually attempt to close by bridging pins with wire, these items still do not close even though I can make others close with this process.

I did just find something that I need verified. If I test continuity from J206 pins to corresponding U20 pins, I do not get continuity when testing pin 1 to pin 1 which does have a path, but all others do have continuity (except pin 8 ) which does not have a path. Should pin 1 of J206 have continuity with pin 1 (bottom right) of U20?

#26 7 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

I did just find something that I need verified. If I test continuity from J206 pins to corresponding U20 pins, I do not get continuity when testing pin 1 to pin 1 which does have a path, but all others do have continuity (except pin 8 ) which does not have a path. Should pin 1 of J206 have continuity with pin 1 (bottom right) of U20?

Yes!! Yes it should. Somewhere the trace is bad, or you have a break at C11, R67.

#28 7 years ago

Nice work guys! Getaway is WAY to fun to be broken for long

#29 7 years ago

Actually, I found that R67 is okay but there does appear to be a break in the trace between J206-1 and R67.

#30 7 years ago

Okay, so how do I repair a tiny break very close to other contacts?

#31 7 years ago

24 to 26 Guage jumper wire on the rear of the board.

#32 7 years ago

Make it look good though or some will consider it a hack.

#33 7 years ago

Does the trace look like it melted open? This is turning out to be a fun project for you

#34 7 years ago

Tough to see given resolution of this camera, but I think too delicate for my skill level.

Follow the line directly above the 1 on J206 until it reaches the green cylinder. You will see some exposed copper which is where the break is.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

#35 7 years ago

That board needs work... but I can't see the break from the photo but I don't doubt for a second there is one present.

Looking at it, I'd recommend Clive but a few conditions will rub him the wrong way, 1. it's had acid damage 2. it's been worked on before and judging by J207 header pin install he'll laugh at it and return it. You can talk to him but he's working on a Sys 11 MPU for me now so don't interrupt him he's busy :p

If you love the game and want it working sooner then later, you might be better off replacing the board with an after market piece and one day you'll have the confidence to clean that up to working order.

Edit: what gets me is it WAS working, possible the acid wasn't fully cleaned which is most probable but check the parts involved with that switch column while waiting to receive your new board.

#36 7 years ago

Well, after diagnosing everything and considering everyone's input, I just ordered a replacement MPU board from Arcadeshop.

I'll still need to move the chips from old to new, so hopefully no challenges with that.

Thank you everyone, for you support and guidance.

#37 7 years ago

FYI, if you ever find yourself having to pull an ASIC chip without a tool here is what I did.

- Fashion 2 LARGE paperclips according to this guide: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/removing-your-bios-chip.47068/
- lInsert clips under opposite corners of chip then bend them in such a way that the top loops overlap
- insert a screw driver or something similar through the loops to serve as a handle that will also,apply equal pressure to the two clips
- with a firm grip on the screwdriver and with the other hand holding,down the board, firmly without jerkiness pull upward to remove the chip
- if chip does not move, as was my case, lightly heat the four outer edges of the socket with a heat gun to have them expand a little and try again (chip should pop right out now)

#38 7 years ago

I am so excited, I hardly know where to start. First, thanks to all the great pinheads in this forum that helped my diagnose the cause of my issue. I just received my new Rottendog MPU board today. At first I was greatly disappointed as I put all my old chips in the board, mounted it, reconnected all the cables, then with one eye closed and reserved hope I turned on the machine only do have a scrambled DMD . . . immediate devastation! I turned the machine off, took a deep breath, reattached all the cables, and voila - all is right with the world.

And now, the exciting part. Not only was my immediate issue resolved (i.e., I could actually start a game now), but all of my other nagging issues that I had learned to live with over the last nine months magically disappeared! For example, my flippers no longer incremented the score just by pushing the flipper buttons. My entire lighting system no longer flashed off at random times during play. Best yet, my back ramp timing is actually correct - when I launch a ball it actually lifts and allows the ball to roll under it before lowering again.

I can't wait to get back to playing this pin and trying to beat my old high score (only appropriate since it was obviously erased with the board replacement). Thank you again to everyone for helping me through this!

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 72.50
4,800 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Evansville, IN
$ 28.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
 
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Fort Lauderdale, FL
$ 30.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
G-Money Mods
 
$ 10.00
Playfield - Plastics
Pinball Haus
 
$ 69.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Pimp
 
$ 15.00
Playfield - Plastics
Pinball Haus
 
$ 19.00
Boards
Tilted Pinball
 
$ 20.00
$ 19.00
Electronics
NO GOUGE PINBALL™
 
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Newcastle, OK
$ 17.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 120.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
G-Money Mods
 
From: $ 100.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
G-Money Mods
 
From: $ 3.50
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
From: $ 15.00
Cabinet - Other
NO GOUGE PINBALL™
 
Trade
$ 65.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
G-Money Mods
 
$ 329.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 109.99
Lighting - Led
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 20.00
Playfield - Plastics
G-Money Mods
 
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
 
$ 9.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 70.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
RobTune
 
$ 40.00
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-getaway-not-starting and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.