(Topic ID: 133919)

Williams 'Flash': Weak Action on Entire Game

By HeyItsMeDusty

8 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by L_satan
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 8 years ago

This is my first pinball machine, and also my first experience with fixing a pinball machine! I have a friend who is extremely experienced in the Art of Zen and Pinball Maintenance, and he's helping me work through the issues (replaced the ROMs, soldered a new interconnect, etc).

Things are getting VERY CLOSE, but there's a mysterious weakness to the entire game. The flippers won't flip, and the action on the pop bumpers, slingshots, and everything else seems like it is 75% weaker than it should be when triggered.

I'm a n00b, so all help is appreciated, and the more detailed the help the better! I'm capable with electronics but new to this world, so assume I know nothing!

(Note: The pic below was before the ROMs were replaced. It's now actually booting up.)

IMG_9390.jpgIMG_9390.jpg

#2 8 years ago

Do the flipper coils have voltage?

What voltage is on the pop coils?

#3 8 years ago

I believe it was reading 4.7, pretty low. I'll confirm tonight.

#4 8 years ago

Actually I could use some help. I'm totally new, so if someone could answer the following, I'll be able to check it out:

1. What setting should the multimeter be on
2. Should the machine be on or off
3. What do I touch the leads to

Thanks!

#5 8 years ago

Pull ball out

Prop up playfield.

Meter on DCV 200V

Turn on machine, start a game.

One lead to ground (like the metal rails, or the braided grounding straps), one lead to a coil tab.

Be careful, don't short anything out, or touch more than one tab at a time.

#6 8 years ago

1. DC voltage. It is usually in the upper left hand area of a dial meter. It has a symbol of a letter V with a dash after it and three dots under the dash.

2. Machine turned on.

3. Black lead to a ground. Ground braid is good, it is the flat, uninsulated, silver-colored wire that you should see in the bottom or sides of the cabinet. Red lead to either outside lug of a coil (make sure the coin door is shut). You may have to scratch some of the corrosion off the coil lugs to get a good reading.

Do you have a manual for your Flash? Here's a link to it: http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/871/Williams_1979_Flash_Manual.pdf

Here is a good repair site: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_3_-_7

#7 8 years ago

It is getting voltage. 36.8 - 37.1

#8 8 years ago

Measuring some other coils, I found they're all reading about the same on 200 DC. They're all about 37

#9 8 years ago

Your voltage is fine. You may have a weak ground.

Remove connectorsJ3 and J4 from the power supply board. That's the smaller board on the right. Always remove connectors by holding the plastic connector itself, never by the wires. Inspect the connectors and wires: are any burnt or discolored? Any wires loose or not attached? Plug these back in and remove them three or four times. This may help remove corrosion that could be causing a weak ground.

Do the same thing, inspect, then off and on, off and on, etc. on connectors J9, J10, J11 & J12 on the driver board. That's the lower of the two boards that are attached in the middle.

Do the flippers fire weakly or not at all?

#10 8 years ago

One other thing. There should be a ground braid that comes up through the hole under the head, and is attached to the metal plate on the back of the head with a wingnut.. Is this braid there, and is the nut tight?

#11 8 years ago

Here's another site that should help you: http://pinball.flippers.info/system6resources.asp

#12 8 years ago

There is no action on the flippers, and weak action everywhere else.

Ground braid is attached.

All connectors looked good! I attached/reattached a few times on all, no change.

#13 8 years ago

Was it ever fully working?

Is it possible its all seized up and rusted/gunky?.

Can you manually move flippers with almost no effort and do they fall back into place?

Its almost impossible for it not to be mechanical if your measuring voltage correctly- how confident are you that the rest of the game is poor if flippers are dead? Its pretty damn hard to tell if flippers are gone- just sayin there are any number of reasons the flippers could be weak or dead and 75% is pretty close to 100% for the rest of the game for someone who admits to being new at this- I would be fairly hard pressed to tell you if a game was really fully powered vs 80% or 90% etc without having played it previously if I came to it and the flippers were basically dead.

I vote at least check mechanical and corrosion on all switches and gaps on EOS.

Fix flippers- if you can its not got anything to do with anything but mechanical.
If you cannot fix them- with help here- then its something electrical your missing. Could be that- even might be- but i would want to know answers to above before casting my vote.

#14 8 years ago

First off, thank you so much to everyone for your help and suggestions so far! Even just going through these steps is laying my foundation to get deeper into this hobby. You guys have an awesome community here.

@rufessor, I bought the machine in a state of disrepair, so I haven't seen this one fully working. I have watched quite a few videos of the play action on fully functioning machines, which is what I'm using to attempt to describe the issue. After reviewing again, the action might be more like 50%, and my measure of that is about how far the components move the ball when engaged. For example, the pop bumpers seem to move the ball about half as far/fast as a fully functioning machine.

The flippers both move freely when manually moved, and there doesn't seem to be any extra friction or corrosion.

#15 8 years ago

Tough to say exactly whats going on, but if you getting good voltage and the components are not corroded/tough to move, and if its both flippers (which have an end of stroke switch that could cause this) AND pop bumpers or slings (which do NOT - ruling out that possibility or at least its not explaining everything)- then I am unsure- and will defer to people who may be able to offer true insight- I have one kinda stupid idea thats a little risky, so I will not mention it here- other than to ask others-

Could it be that somehow he has a poor connection or even transformer thats somehow limiting current flow- and could he find that by loading it and looking for a hot spot? Or is it too risky?

#16 8 years ago

Here's something else, and I'm not sure if it's a viable clue or not: when I first turn it on and it's in attract mode, there are a few lights that start really dim. After "warming up" for maybe 30 minutes, they get brighter. Same goes for the displays; they start with 2-3 of the leftmost figures showing, then slowly work their way up to display more.

I'm pretty sure there shouldn't be any "warming up" going on.

#17 8 years ago

Update on this:

I have not been able to troubleshoot where the problem is coming from.

If I were to swap parts in to find the problem, where should I start? The power supply board? The driver board?

#18 8 years ago

Flash isn't a high action game. It's got all of those crappy Williams EM mechs - especially the flippers.

There's a chance you just aren't used to older games and think it's exceptionally weak. Could just be a normal flash.

They can play well but really need to be dialed in - totally shopped out, rebuilt flippers, etc.

There could well be a problem but hard to say without actually playing your game. Maybe you can shoot some video for us. "75%" sounds about right if you are comparing it to even a System 11 game.

#19 8 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Flash isn't a high action game. It's got all of those crappy Williams EM mechs - especially the flippers.
There's a chance you just aren't used to older games and think it's exceptionally weak. Could just be a normal flash.
They can play well but really need to be dialed in - totally shopped out, rebuilt flippers, etc.
There could well be a problem but hard to say without actually playing your game. Maybe you can shoot some video for us. "75%" sounds about right if you are comparing it to even a System 11 game.

Disagree. Flash should have great snap to it.

Seems like you may have a short somewhere. Or leaky caps.
Can you post any pictures, clearly taken and well lit of the boards? I recommend look up Vids guide to bulletproofing system 3-7. Also, I am convinced re-pinning and crimping new molex truifurcon connectors on everything.

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