(Topic ID: 327298)

Williams Flash - Blue Flasher Dim (LED)

By wastedthelight

1 year ago


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#1 1 year ago

I picked up a 1979 Flash a few weeks back and the blue flasher in the middle of the playfield didn't work. I replaced all bulbs with LEDs (wow!) But the flashers still don't work. I removed the 330 ohm resistor (per pinballbulbs.com and other posts here) and put in a wire instead. No one mentioned this wire...but the connection wouldn't be complete without it. The LEDs light up now during game boot, and when triggered from game play, but are super dim, hardly noticeable. Don't mind the crude solder job on the replacement black wire in the photo, just there to prove it works or not while I troubleshoot.

I'm a newbie to all of this, still learning, so dumb down your assistance please haha.

Also, searching for flasher issues on a game called Flash isn't fun...especially adding to it that Flash Gordon exists!

Thank you!

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#2 1 year ago

I don't think you're supposed to connect that wire. Try it without the wire and see what happens. With that wire connected you're basically replacing the 330 ohm resistor with a 0 ohm resistor.

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from Knxwledge:

I don't think you're supposed to connect that wire. Try it without the wire and see what happens. With that wire connected you're basically replacing the 330 ohm resistor with a 0 ohm resistor.

Tried previously, but nothing happens, not even a dim light at that point. Without those black wires, it's only the hot going to the lights, would think the circuit can't be completed like that? Multimeter only shows current when touching red and that black.

#4 1 year ago

Check out this Pinwiki section on the flashers
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_3_-_7#Flash_Lamp_Problems

I am not smart enough to figure this out lol, this isn't something I've dealt with. To be honest, I leave flashers as incandescent because I don't like how bright the LED ones are, but to each their own.

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from wastedthelight:

The LEDs light up now during game boot, and when triggered from game play, but are super dim, hardly noticeable.

This depends on your bulbs you got, the circuit from the factory uses solenoid voltage to fire the bulbs, so you're looking at 28vdc nominal. They use #63 flasher bulbs stock in series so the voltage gets cut down. This is likely your issue with them just blinking, depending on your flasher bulbs. They can be wired one of 2 ways, parallel or series.

For parallel:

This makes the circuit wiring a lot easier, since you'll have 2 wires feeding voltage (this is a daisy chain from solenoid to solenoid) and one or two wires for the ground portion (to the driver board). Both grounds and both voltage feed wires get connected together to one lug each on the socket, then put a short jumper from one socket to the other.

The important thing here is to check the voltage on your flashers to make sure they are the 28v version.... IIRC that was supposed to be the 1251 incandescent bulb, so the flasher needs to be that one with this wiring configuration. No resistors needed, the purpose of removing the 330 ohm one is to stop an led flasher from being on all the time. The 330 ohm resistor put just enough voltage to the incandescent flasher to keep the filament "warm" so the sudden flash wouldn't prematurely burn it out (since it's technically overvoltage, even when in series).

For series: (closer to factory wiring)

2 12v flashers in series config would work as well, but again be slightly overvoltage. In this case you'd have the 2 power wires on one lug, a jumper to from the other lug to the next socket, then the ground wires on the final lug. So each flasher should get 1/2 the voltage if they are matched closely, and if they are 12volt flashers (replacements for #89 flashers) this should work, too.

2 months later
#6 1 year ago

I think I'm on to something! So I stopped working on this while I had it torn apart to install a Hardtop. It's amazing now, btw! So now that everything is back together...time to solve the Flasher issues

First, I found that the 1ohm 1/2 resistor needed to be replaced, no continuity. Installed a new one, but still no flasher. Started looking at the board again and found...a transistor missing at Q25!?! Also the resistor above looks damaged, now that I'm looking at the photo!

The next issue is, reading the writing on the transistors there are different ones used. I'm not sure what to put here in its place. The schematics I found online are poor quality so can't zoom in on the bill of materials to see.

Also, if someone removed this...how concerned should I be with connecting a new transistor that was for some reason removed...?

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

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#7 1 year ago

Q25 controls the "Flash" light. Original called for a TIP120. Also, take a close look at the resistor 7th one in from the left above the row of predrivers - it looks burned/broken.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from Billc479:

Q25 controls the "Flash" light. Original called for a TIP120. Also, take a close look at the resistor 7th one in from the left above the row of predrivers - it looks burned/broken.

Thanks, where did you find that the original called for a TIP120? If I buy any labeled "TIP120" it's the right one or are there differences in tip120s? Still learning. For the burned out resistor, too burned up and can't tell the colors on it to figure out what it was. Do you have any info on that too?

I feel like I'm getting closer to resolving this...without a $400 rottendog!

Thank you!

#9 1 year ago

Look at the other resistors around it in the same position. They're all the same value in their respective positions. So in your case, look 3 resistors to the left or right and choose that one.

I get my TIP120's from digikey. They are genuine parts.

It wouldn't hurt to also replace the smaller transistor for that leg of the circuit. It's between the missing TIP120 and the burnt resistor. All of the transistors in that row will be the same.

You can also use these free test ROMs to diagnose your whole game:

https://pincoder.ca

They require either getting a chip programmer and some spare chips, or even better, you can use this adapter:

https://pincoder.ca/index.php/2020/07/10/adapter-2020-06-23-0506/

It comes with every Pincoder test ROM available and allows you to test all Williams system 3 through 7 games.

#10 1 year ago

Go to IPDB.org, look for your game. There’s a link to the pages with the driver board components and schematic.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from Billc479:

Go to IPDB.org, look for your game. There’s a link to the pages with the driver board components and schematic.

Ah thanks!! That driver board schematic was way more detailed and better scanned than the other schematic I was referencing! I already have the right resistor, so ordered a few transistors.

And now...the shipping waiting game.

#12 1 year ago

Thanks everyone, it's finally fixed after replacing the transistor and resistor! Stoked to have this 100% working finally!

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