(Topic ID: 236308)

Williams FL-11630 Coil will not fire..

By AdamV92

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 110 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by GRUMPY
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

aux ps (resized).PNG
pic1 (resized).jpg
pic (resized).jpg
tri (resized).jpg
DSCN49691 (resized).jpg
FanWireHookup (resized).jpg
sy11tb1_03a (resized).jpg
TriacScheme (resized).jpg
aaa (resized).jpg
Buzz (resized).jpg
Burnt_Trace (resized).jpg
cracked pins (resized).jpg
bb (resized).PNG
motor (resized).jpg
DiskMotorBoard (resized).jpg
tri (resized).jpg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider GRUMPY.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#5 5 years ago

The blue/grey wire and the grey/yellow wire are reversed. This has cause a dead short thru the coil diodes. Now you need to replace both coil diodes and reverse the wires.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#6 5 years ago

You have the same thing going on here too.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#9 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

I tried these both ways and always had the problem.

I am just reading the schematics as I don't have a WW to compare. If you think the manual is incorrect then cut the blue/yellow and the grey/yellow wires, replace the fuses, turn on the power and test both of these wires for 65 volts DC.

Quoted from AdamV92:

As for the Spark Suppression caps on the EOS Switch, does it matter what direction those are installed??

No.

Quoted from AdamV92:

It does work with old coils but I wanted to be sure..

I would need to see a pic of the old coils.

Quoted from AdamV92:

Also Is it safe to assume that the coil should be fine overall and just replacing the diodes?

Yes.

ww (resized).PNGww (resized).PNG
#11 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

Can anyone tell me what I am over looking or doing wrong? These things always tend to be something really stupid in the end..

You have installed the crank link assembly for the left into the right flipper and the right crank link assembly into the left flipper. In the pic you can see the paw pointing up instead of down, it can't open the EOS switch if its pointing up. When you first installed the rebuilt the flippers with the wires in the correct positions and tested them the paw didn't hit the EOS switch because the crank is in backwards and it burnt the fuse. Then you thought the wires were installed wrong and reversed them, which then burnt the diodes and the fuse. Now you need to replace the diodes and reverse the wires and reverse the crank link assemblies, and then adjust the EOS switches with the flippers in the up position to have a 1/8 inch gap.

fip (resized).jpgfip (resized).jpg
#13 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

But why did the old coils work in there with the paw in this position??

As long as you didn't hold the flipper on more than a second the fuse would have not burnt.

#14 5 years ago

Cut the diodes off of the new coil and then retest for ohms. You have a shorted diode on there.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Cut the diodes off of the new coil and then retest for ohms. You have a shorted diode on there.

Sorry you said you replaced the diodes, How about a closer pic so I can see the diode orientation.

#16 5 years ago

These are different coils then from your first problems, why?

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

But I can play the game with the old coil even with the Flipper Paw in the wrong direction. It all comes down to why the old coil works and the new ones dont.

You say it works and can play a game, but is the flipper strong, have you tried to hold the ball for 5 seconds?

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

No!!! The flipper is not that strong.

This is why you didn't burn the fuse with the old coil and that they seem to work but in reality do not work.

You need to start over now. Reverse the crank assemblies on both flippers. Install the new coils from Marcos that you just bought with no wires yet. Cut off the 4 diodes and check the resistance on both windings for each coil. If the resistance is good then install new diodes. Then take a pic of each flip mech at rest and with the bat in the up position. Then I will can help with the wiring for each coil.

#22 5 years ago

Just like you did before.

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

which I guess is ok right? They dont always have to be right on the money of the listed resistance do they??

That is just fine, install 4 new diodes the correct direction on the coils and install them.

#26 5 years ago

I'm not sure how this is happening on your game, but the EOS switch should just miss the round washer. It almost looks like the EOS switch is longer than normal. You can trim the length of the switch to just miss the washer and hit only the paw. The EOS switch shouldn't hit any bare metal, it only should hit the shrink tubing on the paw. Do this and take new pics after you readjust the EOS switch.

#28 5 years ago

I'm going to assume that you put the wires back on correctly because I can't see them in the pic. You may have a different problem then you realize, your old coils were weak and there was nothing wrong with them. You may have a power issue, connect a voltmeter to the coil and then press the flipper button. Does the power stay the same @ 65-70 volts?

feb169e23b58b3cf541b5ed9a9eba6b701f4df0f (resized).jpgfeb169e23b58b3cf541b5ed9a9eba6b701f4df0f (resized).jpg
#30 5 years ago

Set your meter to DC volts, stick the black lead under the ground braid. Turn on the power and check for power at the coil at lead 3. If this is good then press the flipper button while checking the voltage. The voltage should remain the same.

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from Completist:

The link and pawl assembly you have In the pics is for a WPC era game using the extension return spring.

I knew something didn't look right. Nice catch.

#35 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

I get 37.73 Vdc and when I press the flipper (Game not in play mode) i nothing changes.. Not sure I need to have the machine in play mode... In demo mode (Directly after power up) this is the reading I get...

Yes, you would have to start a game so that the flippers are activated.

#40 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

37.40 Vdc and then like 1.413 Vdc when flipper is pressed. That damn sure cant be right!!

This is not right for sure, you will need to test the other flipper now the same way to see if both have the same issue.

#44 5 years ago

The flippers were weak from the low power going to the coils. Since you have only 37 volts, most likely you have a open diode in the bridge rectifier on the aux power supply.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/KBPC3504-W

The new coils aren't working now because the coil voltage drops to zero, the bridge rectifier may have burned out completely when you reversed the wires on the coils. To make sure that it is the bridge rectifier and not a bad connector, test for voltage at the fuse holder. You should have 65 volts on either side of the flipper fuses.

#48 5 years ago

Any time you want to test for DC volts you place black lead under the ground braid, then turn on power and test with the red lead. So if you check both sides of F-5 and F -6 and you get no power, remove the aux power supply and take a picture of the back side of the board.

#50 5 years ago

Well I don't see any burnt traces on the back of the board. You should replace BR-2 and retest the power.

aux ps (resized).PNGaux ps (resized).PNG
#52 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

if I'm not mistaken is a clear sign of a bad rectifier.

Yep, going to be an easy fix.

#55 5 years ago

Take a pic of both flipper assemblies.

#57 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

Does the wiring look right to you on those two setups??

No.
Grey/yellow wire goes to #3. Blue/grey wire goes to #1. EOS switch wires go to #2 and #1.

Blue/yellow goes to #3. Blue/vio wire goes to #1. I can't see the EOS wires but should be on #2 and #1 also.

#59 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

Does it matter how the EOS hooks up to the coil, or can those work either direction?

Either direction as long as they go to #2 and #1.

Quoted from AdamV92:

Pop coils work but several others do not..

I need the coil names.

Quoted from AdamV92:

but I cant jump them to fire by grounding the middle pins.

I wouldn't do that until you are ready. First test for power on both sides of F-5 and F-6. If good then check for power the #3 lug of both coils. Let me know what you find.

Super exclusive ad from the Pinside Marketplace!
#62 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

F5 left, it bounced from 130 to 168 Vdc rapidly. F5 Right held around 73.5 Vdc

This means that the fuse is bad.

Quoted from AdamV92:

) I jumped F5 for testing as the fuse does not stay long before it blows indicating we have a very severe voltage issue going on somewhere

I'm not sure what you mean by jumping F-5? Don't use anything but the correct size fuse.

In post #56 you stated that you jumped the coils, but you had not reversed the wiring yet. So you have ruined the diodes again. You need to replace all the coil diodes before you proceed any further.

#64 5 years ago

Power on the machine and check the voltage on all 3 lugs of each flipper coil.

#66 5 years ago

Start a game and push on the flipper button.

#68 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

I do not have the upper flipper

Push the flipper button and then manually lift the flipper bat, does it stay up or does it fall back down?

#69 5 years ago

Is this game new to your collection or did the spinners just stop working since the flipper rebuild?

Is this the correct solenoid that is not working?

www (resized).PNGwww (resized).PNG
#71 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

Upper one was just a little tight but does not move with button pushed..

You must start a game, then push and hold flipper button, then lift upper flipper bat. Does it stay up while holding the flipper button?

#73 5 years ago

Take a pic of the upper flipper assembly.

#75 5 years ago

You need to clean and adjust the EOS switch.

#77 5 years ago

From your pic it looks like the EOS switch is dirty. This would require filing the contacts to clean the surfaces, which would change the settings so that an adjustment would be needed. If you don't believe that this is the problem, then you can do a test to confirm this. With the game power on you can take a jumper connected to ground and BRIEFLY touch the middle lug of the coil, each time you touch it the coil should fire.

#79 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

I need to know where to hook up my wires on the Triac Board for the blower..

I see that there is an error in the diagram on J-3. And J-3 is where the fan connects to. You may want to double check the diagram with a ohm meter. The key pin is miss labeled.

triac (resized).PNGtriac (resized).PNG
#81 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

2 of those just loop and according to the Schematic, goes to P3

They use 2 pins on the connector for each wire so not to overheat the connector.

Quoted from AdamV92:

So where do the wires that look gray to me from the 7 pin connector go?

They are both purple, not grey and they go to the fan motor.

Quoted from AdamV92:

I have it as my spinners DO work when in fact they DO NOT work.. I get around 27 Vdc to the connecting board on the Spinning Disk motor and no issues on any of the fuses.. The spinners worked before and now they dont.

Post a pic of your motor board.

tri (resized).jpgtri (resized).jpg
#84 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

I get around 27 Vdc to the connecting board on the Spinning Disk motor and no issues on any of the fuses..

27 volts sounds low, should be @ 39 volts. Check for voltage at both sides of F-1 on the aux power supply.

#87 5 years ago

Test connector J-5 pin 8 on the inner connect board for voltage, then test J-7 pin 6. What do you have?

#89 5 years ago

Use a jumper connected to ground and touch to the activation lead. Do the spinners turn on?

motor (resized).jpgmotor (resized).jpg
#91 5 years ago

With the voltmeter on the motor board red wire, does the voltage drop to zero when you put the jumper on the grey/green wire?

#93 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

I also hear a buzzing noise on that right flipper that sounds like its coming from the upper flipper...

When doing this test or when hitting the flipper button?

Quoted from AdamV92:

I get OL on both lines.

Did it show power and then show OL while testing?

#96 5 years ago

So sometimes you have voltage on the motor board and sometimes you got nothing. This means you have a bad connection somewhere. I would remove the inner connect board and look for cracked header pins.

Quoted from AdamV92:

Was just when you press the Right flipper button, it had a buzzing noise if you held down the button... Last night after playing the game for several minutes the Right flipper caused the F5 to blow...

The buzzing is caused by a loose coil. The fuse is blowing because one of the right flippers needs the EOS switch adjusted.

#98 5 years ago

I meant for you to remove this board. Pay close attention to the back side of the board at the header pins for cracks. The pic of the relay shows what cracked pins look like.

bb (resized).PNGbb (resized).PNGcracked pins (resized).jpgcracked pins (resized).jpg
#100 5 years ago

Way to go.

Playball!!

#101 5 years ago

As for the buzzing flipper, if you look at this pic you see I circled the coil bracket. The bracket is bent and not at 90 degrees, this will cause the coil to be loose. Loose coil will vibrate. I also see that the sleeve is in backwards, it needs to be long enough to pass thru the coil and thru this coil bracket. If the sleeve doesn't pass thru the bracket the coil will not stay centered and the plunger can rub against the coil bracket. Anytime you make changes like this then readjust the EOS switch. Also when you use the newer style plunger link like this (pic #2) you should use the external spring instead of the tapered spring. You can see that its stopping on the spring and not on the coil stop. This will cause the bat to raise up and stop at different spots depending how the spring binds each time it energizes. Once you remove them and use external springs you need to readjust the EOS switch. After you correct these small issues I'm sure the fuse will stop burning. If you need anymore help don't hesitate to ask.

Buzz (resized).jpgBuzz (resized).jpgaaa (resized).jpgaaa (resized).jpg
1 week later
#103 5 years ago

Is this a pic of your board?

tri (resized).jpgtri (resized).jpg
#105 5 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

The third photo has surface mount components (and LED) and is probably a reproduction board.

Nice catch.

#107 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:

J3 looks like it goes right to the fan, so I need to know what Pins I would be using off of that connection

Yes this connector goes to the fan. You need to use 2 pins for each wire so not to over heat the connector.

pic (resized).jpgpic (resized).jpg
#108 5 years ago

J-2 is the input power from the aux power supply J-9. It too needs 2 pins for each wire to not over heat the connector.

aux ps (resized).PNGaux ps (resized).PNGpic1 (resized).jpgpic1 (resized).jpg
#110 5 years ago
Quoted from AdamV92:So Pins 4 and 5 go to pins 3 and 4 from J9, and 6 and 7 from J9 go to 1 and 2 on J8??

No, Aux board J-9 pins 4 and 5 go to Triac J-2 pins 4 and 5.
Aux board J-9 pins 6 and 7 go to Triac board J-2 pins 1 and 2.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 15.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
Protection
$ 44.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
Shooter rods

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider GRUMPY.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-fl-11630-coil-will-not-fire?tu=GRUMPY and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.