(Topic ID: 135634)

Williams Fire! - i took out left side and sling GI only by shorting

By MalikyeMoon

8 years ago


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Williams_Fire_Tech_Chart.pdf (PDF preview)
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#1 8 years ago

Hi friends,

Hoping you can help. I heard of repairing a loose lamp socket by dropping a bit of solder down between the layers to resolve a flickering/dimming socket. i tried it on the left slingshot socket and turned it back on and apparently shorted it out . i managed to take out the whole left side GI, both sling GI lamps (44s above playfield). The right side GI, all flashers, etc. all work. no switches or other affected.

I checked fuses and replaced the GI fuse, didnt help. I didnt think it would. Also tried those under the pf.

Diagnostic lamp test didnt help. MPU has a flickering diagnostics led center bulb. no visible burnt parts.

Did i short one of the individual small lamp boards, or the lamp stuff on the MPU with my idiot move tonight? Need to fix quickly before a pinball party this weekend

Thanksf or your help!

#2 8 years ago

I'm working on a Tech Chart for Fire! right now.
The G.I. is fused in the backbox, just below the Power Supply.
There is a series of 4 fuses with 5A fuses each.
With the game off, pull each fuse and check with a multimeter if one is blown.
No boards or other things in the circuit, but the GI-relay (solenoid 10).
The relay board is located under the playfield just left of the left flipper.
You might need to check this board too.
Most likely it's just the fuse.
Be sure to remove the short before replacing the fuse.

#3 8 years ago

Hi Inkochnito!

I recently installed two of your bridge boards (one into my DE Batman, one into Williams Pinbot). Nice to hear from you! I had mixed issues after doing so until I re-did every connector. Too easy with those screw-on connectors to have something come loose unfortunately, but they are working now.

Thank you kindly for the tip on Fire! It did turn out to be one of the 5A fuses below the PSU (it wasn't the GI fuse, I believe it was the Solenoid fuse, and that had me confused).

As a side note - the GI Relay board for the left flipper has actually been disconnected from the circuit. Meaning the power and ground wires are still connected to it, but the purple/yellow wires from the GI circuit that used to pass thru it have been cut and spliced together for just that one board using a wire nut.

I assume that means the board went bad and a previous owner bypassed it. Do you happen to know if someone makes replacements for these?

Thank you,

Mike

#4 8 years ago

Unless the board is totaly toasted, it fixable.
Relays can be exchanged.

Screw-on connector were the best way to go.
Not everyboby has the right tool to use Trifurcon connectors.
Perhaps that will be the next version...

#5 8 years ago

Mike, can you check a fuse for me please?
I like to know which voltage is on fuse F4 on the Power Supply board.
And then what fails if you remove this fuse?
Be sure to turn the power off when you pull the fuse.
This will be information for the Tech Chart.

#6 8 years ago

I have a rottendog replacement psu in there right now so that may skew your readings. i still have the original workingin a. box,j ust upgraded proactively when i swapped out an LED display.

#7 8 years ago

May I Join in this Fire! Side chat? I recently got a Fire two months ago, and slowly have made it come to life. But, I also have a fuse problem. The 4 bank below the power supply keeps blowing fuse 3 from left. I've watched it at start up and it only last 10 seconds until red glow and die. I know this is lower play field GI on right side. I've run the line to under play field looking for short or loose wires, none found yet.
My thoughts, much like Mike above is to buy new rottendog power supply. Also new 4 bank fuse holder, and those 2 bridge rectifiers and add single fuse holders to those.
Your thoughts, starting in right place?
Many Thanks, Eric

#8 8 years ago

Mike, I think I've figured it out from the schematic.
F4 on the Power Supply is for the Special Solenoids 17 thru 22.
All other solenoids are via F2.

Eric, go over each lamp socket in the string.
Watch the bare wire closely and follow this around the right playfield.
Also look inside the lamp fitting if you haven't already.
Remove all the lamps from this string and see if you still have the problem.

As for the 2 bridge rectifiers and added fuse, I would reccommend my Bridge Board.
That also takes care of the large capacitor.
My Bridge Board is available from Big Daddy Enterprises.
There is more information about my Bridge Board on my website www.inkochnito.nl (click on the left image).

Peter
www.inkochnito.nl

#9 8 years ago

Peter- loving pinside right now! Thank you for your thoughts. Your bridge board is already in my big daddy PayPal cart, then I started searching his stuff, been awhile since I've been on that pin store. Needless to say building order will purchase tomorrow. I will follow your instructions and update next week, working all weekend.
I have 're- bulbed, but didn't examine down in those. Will do that again and follow stream, I've done that once for almost 2 hours looking for damage and bad wiring. Also checked all connections at cpu board and power supply. One of the bridge rectifiers has a chaulky white powder creeping out behind it. Did not mention that machine spent 25 years in Germany. When I got it, was working, but fritzy. Opened up power in lower cabinet and veristor was melted and black burn every, melted fuse holder. Replaced all with new box and power cord. Fuses where wrong and few jumped and bypassed. Worried about the cpu board, but it works, sound all works, just the lower GI I mentioned before dead. Still thinking new power supply too, since big daddy has it,?
Haven't heard her "save my baby" in awhile. Don't know why. Just got bell back from from being 're bronzed, polished and lacquered. It's a georgous bell now. Will post pic tomorrow here. Thanks again . Love that your board, great work. I assume that doesn't replace the 4 fuse holder? Eric

#10 8 years ago

Eric - you should really start a new thread for your issues. It muddies up the topic of mine if people search for it later.

#11 8 years ago

His bridge board replaces the capacitor, fuses, and bridge rectifiers normally attached to the backbox (not on the PSU). I have it in my Pinbot, and my DE Batman. I will be doing it to Fire! eventually to prevent the missing fuse/set your machine on fire issue (no pun intended).

Inkochito - glad you figured it out! I had not had a chance to look yet. Anything else you are still looking for?

#12 8 years ago
Quoted from MalikyeMoon:

Inkochnito - glad you figured it out! I had not had a chance to look yet. Anything else you are still looking for?

All is fine now.
The Tech Chart is complete now.
Perhaps you would like to check it for errors?
Edit: (Extra backbox display fuses added)
I'll attach a copy of the file.

Peter

Williams_Fire_Tech_Chart.pdfWilliams_Fire_Tech_Chart.pdf

#13 8 years ago

Mike, I will start new thread, to many Fire problems to discuss. Does Peter's bridge board replace that 4 fuse holder for the GI too? Don't think so, not sure.
New to pinside, I get it about threads, Thank you and Peter for your help.
Eric E.

#14 8 years ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Does Peter's bridge board replace that 4 fuse holder for the GI too?
Eric E.

No, it doesn't.
It's just for the 2 bridge rectifiers (solenoids and controlled lamps), the large capacitor and adding the 2 fuses.
Look here for more information: http://home.kpn.nl/p.koch3/

1 week later
#15 8 years ago

Peter- Adding pictures for your tech sheet. Missing upper back box fuses.IMAG0920.jpgIMAG0920.jpg

#19 8 years ago

Those fuses are for the -100v AND +100V for the displays.
There are not mentioned in the manual, but I'll add them to the Tech Chart.
Luckily there is a label under the fuses stating their purpose.
The next game in the series (Big Guns) did have those fuses.
Thanks for telling me.

Peter
www.inkochnito.nl

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