Fire!
Williams, 1987You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider DreB.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Hi everyone. New to the pinball world and I'm having issues with my Fire. I was getting a status error code on boot up so I changed my 3 AAs (nvram on the way) and it worked fine all evening and this morning I got all lights on on the playfield and the upper cab but nothing on the scoring displays and the game doesn't boot up. I tried new AAs but they might have been old. Grabbing new ones tomorrow but I have a feeling it might not be the batteries? All fuses look OK. Suggestions?
#Fire
Quoted from chad:Good to see no damage from battery leakage.
Yeah. Nvram on the way
Quoted from PinballManiac40:I agree, sounds like a power supply issue. Likely the 5volt capacitors failed. Best to measure the voltages to be sure though. Good time to replace all the capacitors on the board so it lasts for 25 more years.
Still like to see a picture of the MPU.
Here you go.
Quoted from Brtlkat:With your DMM what are all your voltage test points reading? FWIW the machine will boot without batteries in it.
Ah, just won't save scores etc.. OK tks. Like I said. Newb over here. Lol.
Quoted from Brtlkat:With your DMM what are all your voltage test points reading? FWIW the machine will boot without batteries in it.
I'll check this evening. What should I be getting? I'm sure I can find a system 11 troubleshoot video somewhere.
Quoted from dozer1:So you are basically saying it works the same way if you put batteries in it or not? To me it looks like someone did a shitty job of soldering in a new battery box. My generic answer to this is remove MPU, send to qualified board repairman, have them install the NVRAM, A new C30 capacitor, they will test board if indeed a qualified board repairman, make necessary repairs, then you can re install MPU and enjoy your Fire. Usually people don't like this answer, but it always seems to work well for me. Good luck!
I'm decent at soldering and nvram is in the mail. Thanks for the tip 
Quoted from wayout440:*** Williams System 11 Power measurements and test points ***
Logic power
MPU IJ17 Pins 4,5,6 = +5.03 VDC @8.1 mV AC ripple
U26/U27 ROM Pin 1 = +4.91 VDC
Audio power
MPU IJ17 Pin 9 = -14.04 VDC (Unregulated)
MPU IJ17 Pin 8 = +12.02 VDC (Unregulated)
Audio board U11 (U17 on Sys11B) Pin 8 -13.9 VDC @250 mV AC ripple
Audio board U11 (U17 on Sys11B) Pin 4 +11.8 VDC @50 mV AC ripple
Controlled lamp power
PS 3J4 pins 5,6,7,8 (Sys11A) or backbox bridge 6BR1 (Sys11B)= +15VDC to +18VDC nominal.
General illumination power
PSU 3J8 (Sys11A) or Interconnect board output 2P7 (Sys11B) = 4.5 VAC to 6.3 VAC nominal
Display power
3J5 pin 3 (Sys11A) or 3J2 pin 3 (Sys11B) = +90 to +110VDC nominal
3J5 pin 4 (Sys11A) or 3J2 pin 1 (Sys11B) = -90 to -110VDC nominal
Flipper power
Game specific@flipper supply board outputs= +65 to +75 VDC nominal
Solenoid power
PS 3J3 pins 6,7,8 (Sys11A) +32 to +35 VDC
Interconnect board F1/F3 (Sys11B) +41 VDC
Interconnect board F4 (Sys11B) +75VDC
Thank you
Quoted from PinballManiac40:You'll still need new capacitors at some point.
Does it need to be that specific one? Looking for a replacement.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:I said "capacitors". So way more than just one. These are the values and part locations. Better make sure you install them correctly or they will explode. https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=W711A-PEC-KIT
Quoted from PinballManiac40:I said "capacitors". So way more than just one. These are the values and part locations. Better make sure you install them correctly or they will explode. https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=W711A-PEC-KIT
Thank you Sir. Even though I'm new to pinballs I've been a telecom field tech for over 12yrs. I am aware that they do need to go in the right way. Lol
Quoted from PinballManiac40:That is good. Though the + sign markings on the board can be confusing because some locations can be fitted with an axial or a radial capacitor.
Agreed. Cheers
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Think? You need to measure the 5v and 12v again on the power supply.
Sorry man, don't want to sound like a broken record, just not sure how to do that.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:wayout440 showed on post #20. Slide the black meter lead under the ground braid wire in the backbox so you only have to hold the red lead. Set the meter for Vdc, V==, depending on label your meter has and post your results.
You're right. Sorry. Just getting frustrated and I'm moving backwards. Lol
Quoted from wayout440:*** Williams System 11 Power measurements and test points ***
Logic power
MPU IJ17 Pins 4,5,6 = +5.03 VDC @8.1 mV AC ripple
U26/U27 ROM Pin 1 = +4.91 VDC
Audio power
MPU IJ17 Pin 9 = -14.04 VDC (Unregulated)
MPU IJ17 Pin 8 = +12.02 VDC (Unregulated)
Audio board U11 (U17 on Sys11B) Pin 8 -13.9 VDC @250 mV AC ripple
Audio board U11 (U17 on Sys11B) Pin 4 +11.8 VDC @50 mV AC ripple
Controlled lamp power
PS 3J4 pins 5,6,7,8 (Sys11A) or backbox bridge 6BR1 (Sys11B)= +15VDC to +18VDC nominal.
General illumination power
PSU 3J8 (Sys11A) or Interconnect board output 2P7 (Sys11B) = 4.5 VAC to 6.3 VAC nominal
Display power
3J5 pin 3 (Sys11A) or 3J2 pin 3 (Sys11B) = +90 to +110VDC nominal
3J5 pin 4 (Sys11A) or 3J2 pin 1 (Sys11B) = -90 to -110VDC nominal
Flipper power
Game specific@flipper supply board outputs= +65 to +75 VDC nominal
Solenoid power
PS 3J3 pins 6,7,8 (Sys11A) +32 to +35 VDC
Interconnect board F1/F3 (Sys11B) +41 VDC
Interconnect board F4 (Sys11B) +75VDC
Logic power
MPU IJ17 Pins 4,5,6 = +5.03 VDC @8.1 mV AC ripple
Pin 6 has nothing.
Alright. So I'm still trying to figure this out. I've disconnected every but IJ18 and no power to board. This might be simple to some but being new to all of this I think I'm stuck. (Extremely frustrated) Tested my power supply and everything seams OK. I'm just not sure what steps to take next. About to set fire to my Fire. Lol
So...the frustration continues. Looks like 2 of my 3 under playfield relay boards aren't getting the 28v. IJ18 isn't pushing out any power and my tip transistors test OK. Not sure where to go next. I've read the pinwiki about 5 times and my service manual doesn't really cover this. Any advice?
Quoted from GRUMPY:You need to step back and do testing in a logical manner.
First you need a good power supply putting out the correct voltages.
Second, this power needs to go the CPU board.
Third, the CPU boards needs to boot up.
Until this all happens correctly looking at items under the playfield is a waste of time and energy.
Start over with the power supply and find J-6, its at the top of the power supply. Use your voltmeter on DC volts and check each pin with the red lead. Place the black lead under the ground braid. You need to be accurate with your posts and your readings or we can't help you with this small issue.
Like previously said I am new to this and at some point so we're all of you. I'm sorry if my issue is simply to you but to me it is not. I am overwhelmed, confused and frustrated. I'm doing my best with the limited skills that I possess. My power supply is fine and my mpu board is not lighting up. I lack the proper terminology and for this I am sorry.
Quoted from GRUMPY:Until you see fire coming out of your machine, it's a simple issue and no reason to be frustrated. I haven't seen that you have all the correct voltages coming out of the power supply yet. Maybe I missed that.
I was working fine then one day just stopped. When I turn it on all the lights are on and I hear the speaker hum but the leds on the main board don't come on. I though maybe a special solenoid needed to be activated but I guess I read that wrong. I'll go through the power supply again. I originally wiggled the 12 pin ac wafer and it came on briefly. Now nothing.
Quoted from GRUMPY:Start here and let me know what you find.
[quoted image]
Pin 1= 0
2= -14.6
3= 14.6
4= 0
5 missing
6= 14.5
7 to 15= 0
Put my ground (com) on pin 14
Quoted from GRUMPY:Start here and let me know what you find.
[quoted image]
Thanks for your help/ simplification lol
Quoted from GRUMPY:Remove this connector 1J-17 from the CPU board. Turn the game on and retest the power supply.
[quoted image]
OK, without 1J17
1= 0
2= -14.35
3= 14.4
4= 0
5= no pin
6= 14.4
7 to 15 =0
Quoted from GRUMPY:Reconnect 1J-17 that you removed from the CPU board. Now disconnect 3J-5 from the power supply and retest.
[quoted image]
Connected 1j17,
3J-5 disconnected, getting the same results as before.
Quoted from GRUMPY:One last thing to try. Disconnect 11J-3 from the sound board and retest the power supply.
[quoted image]
Same results again.
Quoted from GRUMPY:Most definite.
On the power supply there is one IC chip. Measure DC voltage on pins 10 and 12. For example I showed you a 16 pin chip, doesn't matter how big or small the chip is the pins are always counted the same. Counter clockwise from the notch.
[quoted image]
So mine is a 14 pin chip and 10 has like 0.33 and 12 has 0.
3J6 is still disconnected, should it be reconnected for this?
Quoted from GRUMPY:Are you capable of replacing parts on the power supply?
Yes sir. That's not an issue. I work in telecom so I'm not completely useless. Lol
Quoted from GRUMPY:Are you capable of replacing parts on the power supply?
Should I get a capacitors kit?
Quoted from GRUMPY:Yes, and a bridge rectifier and 2 diodes.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=KBPC3506W
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=1N4007
This will take care of all of the most common failure parts.
I'll give that a try. Thanks again for all your help buddy, I'll keep you posted. Shipping to my area is snail slow. Lol
Quoted from GRUMPY:Yes, and a bridge rectifier and 2 diodes.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=KBPC3506W
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=1N4007
This will take care of all of the most common failure parts.
Changed all the components you suggested and IT'S ALIVE!!!!. Thanks again for all your help. Great Xmas gift lol.
Playball!</blockquote
Mr Grumpy, can I pick your brain for a sec. My Fire is working great except for an issue that happened before the power supply problem. After playing a game, the game stays idol with the regular taunts but the right ramp stays up and I can hear it clicking and trying to bring it back down. Almost like it's stuck in the up position, what could cause that?
Quoted from GRUMPY:Each fix will get easier with experience.
Yeah. Good thing there's this place and people who give pointers
Quoted from chad:Good to hear you have it working now.
Yes, until the next issue haha. It's part of the charm.
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider DreB.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-fire-being-a-jerk-?tu=DreB and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Casselman, ON
Bellefonte, PA