Williams F-14 Tomcat

(Topic ID: 235481)

Williams F-14 Tomcat


By GnarLee

42 days ago



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  • 85 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by GRUMPY
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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There are 85 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 21 days ago

Ok so had my first "blunder" today. I rebuilt the diverter with new coils and did the service as it looked like it was only half done before. cut some zip ties and there was a cut wire in the bundle. before thinking about it I grabbed the wire to see where it went to/from. my tags decided they were then going to fall off and bundles come apart. Im pretty sure I have it figured out but want to double check. The purple yellow wire is just a daisy chain between the coils. So line in to lower diverter then chain to upper diverter to ball popper to (looks like yagov kicker). Order should not matter as long as they are all daisy chained correct? Then the thinner wire connected to coil is the signal wire which in most cases looks like it goes to a snubber board (not the diverters though)?

#52 21 days ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

The purple yellow wire is just a daisy chain between the coils.

This is the 50 volt power wire which does daisy chain from coil to coil.

Quoted from GnarLee:

Order should not matter as long as they are all daisy chained correct?

No order doesn't matter as long as they are all 50 volt coils.

Quoted from GnarLee:

Then the thinner wire connected to coil is the signal wire which in most cases looks like it goes to a snubber board (not the diverters though)?

Correct, the issue is that the diverters are connected straight to the CPU board and have been known to be an issue for burning up the special solenoids transistors. If you want to add some protection to these 2 coils do not connect them to the 50 volt power wire, connect them to the 25 volt red wire at the pop bumper. Then add a 1 amp in line fuse to each coil and you will never melt down again.

#53 21 days ago

Awesome glad I figured it out correctly. And Im excited to do that pop bumper hack...very easy to do. Thanks again Grumpy

#54 21 days ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

Awesome glad I figured it out correctly. And Im excited to do that pop bumper hack...very easy to do. Thanks again Grumpy

You gotta put some pics on here!!
We are in the dark here!

#55 21 days ago
Quoted from Daditude:

You gotta put some pics on here!!
We are in the dark here!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/f14-tomcat-owners-club-fans-also-welcome/page/65#post-4331174

Here is what can happen if you have a problem with the divertors.

#56 21 days ago

Um wow that looks awfully familiar but not near as bad on the board that came with my pin. Im pretty sure, but ill have to look in the morning, that is the same transistor and resistor that I suspected were bad on my original board. Error 7 which is a u54 error. Also out of all the coils those were the ones that were definitely on their way out

#57 18 days ago

Ok so trying to figure out how to make posting pictures easier. Got me a new toy for birthday hope this works . Did some flipper rebuilding today. Normally if I look at something hard enough I can figure out exactly what is going on. Not sure I understand how the flippers work. I understand the principle of 2 coils in 1 with one being strong and one being weak, but I don’t understand how the switches work. I’m attaching a couple pictures of today’s work and a couple questions.

1. The EOS switch (one with beefy contacts) is connected to the capacitor and two of the lugs. Does it matter which of the wires that go from switch to lug.

2. The lane change switch has a diode on it, but as far as I can tell it’s only connected to 1 of the switch wires.

(Sorry couldn’t figure out how to delete the “almost”duplicate photo)

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#58 18 days ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

1. The EOS switch (one with beefy contacts) is connected to the capacitor and two of the lugs. Does it matter which of the wires that go from switch to lug.

All that matters is that the EOS wires goes to lug #1 and #2.

Quoted from GnarLee:

but I don’t understand how the switches work. I’m attaching a couple pictures of today’s work and a couple questions.

When the EOS switch is closed, power (#3 lug) will go thru the strong (primary) coil and then thru the EOS switch and to lug #1 to ground when the cabinet switch is closed. This will move the plunger and flipper bat until the EOS switch opens, leaving only the weak (secondary) coil to hold the flipper in the up position.

Quoted from GnarLee:

2. The lane change switch has a diode on it, but as far as I can tell it’s only connected to 1 of the switch wires.

Power comes from the CPU on the white wire thru the diode to one of the switch contacts, when the switch closes it passes to the other contact and to the green wire and back to the CPU.

#59 18 days ago

Ok that makes a lot of sense. So flippers 1 and 2 rebuilt will do 3 and 4 tomorrow. Everything does look correct though? Only thing I changed was the red wire for the EOS. I didn't like all the blue wires and wanted something a little more distinguishable (18awg high temp tinned copper).

#60 17 days ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

Everything does look correct though? Only thing I changed was the red wire for the EOS. I didn't like all the blue wires and wanted something a little more distinguishable (18awg high temp tinned copper).

Looks good to me.

#61 16 days ago

Finishing up with the last flipper rebuild. These were supposed to be the easy ones, then I found out one of them was being held in with 3 screws with 5 stripped holes. To make matters slightly worse 2 of the screws that were there wer too long and were up through playfield (barely noticeable but if you look you can see the tiny hole where screw started to come through). Got some filler and got that all patched up. Was going to try and finish the diverter up today. Attaching some images of what I believe you told me to do. Just want to double check before I change up wiring. On a side note when I put the diverter back together everything was super tight and binding. If I changed the direction of the sleeve everything works great but I don’t think it is correct how I have it now. But not sure (it is the ONLY way everything fits and works properly) if I put the flange between brackets nothing fits

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#62 16 days ago

The wire I marked with the arrow isn't needed as power will come from the pop coil. Yes that is where you can add the fuses 1 amp SB. I use a in line fuse holder that crimps to the wire.

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#63 16 days ago

I had that wire there because I was going to start the chain at the diverters and replace the wire that that feeds the pop bumper and shoot it over to the diverters first. I think it will look a little cleaner and will prevent a splice (as a general rule I hate splices, Just another potential failure point). Or are you just saying hook the pop bumper up like it was then just add a 3rd wire and shoot over to diverters? Basically the thought process was to have 1 big daisy chain. So starting at play field fuse go to top diverter then bottom diverter then over to pop bumper.

#64 16 days ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

Or are you just saying hook the pop bumper up like it was then just add a 3rd wire and shoot over to diverters?

Yes, its easy. Your way will work fine too, just more to wire.

#65 15 days ago

Did my diverter wiring today. Very happy with how it came out putting it into the harness. Was going to do the pop bumper next. Got the spoon replaced, but there is a cut component I’m not sure what it is. Found another one on the kicker that wasn’t connected as well but it didn’t look cut per say. One on pop bumper looks like it was cut. Do I need it? How to test it? Oh and 2 switches or rather 1 big stack. I’m assuming one is for actuation and other is scoring like kicker?

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#66 15 days ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

but there is a cut component I’m not sure what it is

This is a 22uf electrolytic capacitor. When bad it can lock on the coil, that maybe why someone cut it loose.

Quoted from GnarLee:

I’m assuming one is for actuation and other is scoring like kicker?

Yep.

It helps with light ball hits on the switch, and gives a more powerful coil hit.

#67 15 days ago

So in theory I can leave it disconnected for now with no issues and sometime in the future purchase a replacement. A quick google search says I can set meter to read ohms, cap should start at 0 and increase indefinetly. Is this the proper method to use to test?

#68 15 days ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

So in theory I can leave it disconnected for now with no issues and sometime in the future purchase a replacement.

Yep.

Quoted from GnarLee:

A quick google search says I can set meter to read ohms, cap should start at 0 and increase indefinetly. Is this the proper method to use to test?

Not really. Not even worth testing for a quarter.

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CEA-22uF-50V-RMD

#69 13 days ago

@op - in case you need it....

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#70 13 days ago

That is very pretty, I don’t think I’m going to that extent. Let me fall in love with the machine and decide I wanna do a playfield swap, then a new translight might be in the cards. First up I have finally got all the coils and flippers rebuilt. Final tally 3 of 4 flippers coils were toast (replaced all 4) and 2 playfield ( pop bumper and outhole kicker) were in iffy shape. Started working on the warming boards. First board was missing a couple of the resistors. So pulled the board desoldered everything cleaned everything up and put 4 new resistors in. Easy enough although I did have a good laugh when I realized I was using a pair of tweezers (for the springy action) and q-tips to help remove old and space the new. The other warming board I’m immediately concerned with has the final loose wire and some “hack”. Pretty sure I got thing figured out but want to run it by you guys to make sure.

Pic 1 picture of the new wiring and fuse holders
Pic 2 and Pic 3 old warming board and rebuilt board
Pic 4 2nd warming board and loose wire

So basically I traced the loose wire over to the 3 flashers under the big round insert. Which doesn’t really make sense as the white/grey goes to that cluster as well. This tells me loose wire goes to warming board as I suspected. Maybe there was a current issue and the wires got hot I don’t know. I still don’t understand why the jumper wire is there either. I have not check with a multimeter but all the traces look fine. My first instinct it to replace the wire with something a bit bigger and clean up the wiring there or maybe even dump the third flasher and just have 2 and remove the extra wire. Thoughts? Suggestions? There is also something similar going on with the flashers at the back of the playfield where there is 2 wires (1 to each flasher). I know there was a service bulletin for these ones

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#71 12 days ago

A couple of nice to know items, the resistor board is actually 2 flasher circuits on a single board and each circuit can only power 2 flash bulbs. So with that said, two of the three flash bulbs are connected to one side of the board and the single flash bulb is connected to the other side of board. The jumper wire was added by someone to fire both sides of the board together so all 3 bulbs fire at the same time. This isn't the way the factory suggested to wire it but it will work.

#72 11 days ago

That is what I had figured but hadn’t looked at it close enough to determain that it was 2 separate circuits. Went ahead and rebuilt the board with the missing resistors and rebuilt the board with the loose wire. For the time being I just hooked it up like normal and removed that jumper wire. Will figure out a better solution in the future (at some point I’m going to replace those flasher sockets as they are pretty mangled) and will rewire it. Went ahead and installed rectifier board. Pretty straightforward install. Also started working at getting the rest of the Mylar glue off. None of it was too bad but the Mylar b/t tomcat on upper playfield the glue seems different. It’s like 3 times as thick and almost silicony. Taking a break for now as I’m getting a blister (dam glue). Prolly try to get the inserts pushed back in next and do general playfield cleaning. Also went ahead and ordered a playfield protector. I do think I might want to try and do a full playfield resto one day and don’t want to damage it further so I think that’s the best option till I get brave enough to try and learn to clear coat.

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#73 11 days ago

Clearcoating is pretty straightforward compared to the work you've been doing. As long as you wear the proper PPE and get decent spraying equipment you'll be golden.

#74 7 days ago

Busy couple days. Fingers hate me but finally got all the Mylar glue off up by the top tomcat targets. Good news is after spending a good few hours getting that glue off I realized that the planking I thought I had is the thin clear coat cracking. Could still cause planking, but the test area I did with magic eraser and alcohol got smooth and the ripples disappeared. Not going to do the playfield this way right now (don’t like the idea of basically sanding the playfield without putting the protection back on) but I think the playfield protector should prevent further damage for now. Maybe sometime in the near future I can see about the equipment I would need to properly clear coat. Went through 90% of the switches today. Couple questions. First the Yagov would not register (would by hand) when I had the game up doing testing a month ago. Looking at it, it has a reinforcing plate in the switch but it was literally reinforcing nothing. I took the switch apart and swapped the plate around so it’s actually reinforcing the leaf. Now I get good contact and when I test with a multimeter but it makes contact shortly after the ball would hit the switch. Do I need to try and back the switch back a bit or is that fine? Also found these 2 little gems. First one is easy wire looks good so some quick desoldering and some shrink wrap all should be good. What do you think I should do about the back flasher board. It has all new sockets on it but whoever did the work doesn’t look too good. First look I see sanding, cold solder joints, improper bridge wires (looks like the used a leg from a diode) prolly from bad solder job. I feel like I should clean everything up (even the ones that seem fine, they were all replaced at some point) and use some jumper wires but not trying to dick with the traces and running them up to the connector (the bad ones). It’s delicate soldering but going to a trace if anything ever catches the wire good chance you rip the trace up anyways so going up to the connector sounds better in theory. Is this the proper thing to do or is there something else I should be considering?

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#75 5 days ago

Ok I went with my gut and this is what I came up with. Had 3 sockets with no continuity to connector. So yellow is the ground starting at the first bad connector and running to end of string. Then did jumpers for the hot side all the way to connector. Also whoever rep,aced the sockets managed to put 2 in backwards. As this board would never be removed with the game on I left it alone. This should be ok yes? In other exciting news finally took the plunge and bought a 3D printer. Going to make a shroud to cover the back of the flasher board and protect the newly added jumpers

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#76 5 days ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

This should be ok yes?

Are you going to run Leds flashers? If so the positive power needs to go to the center terminal of the socket.

#77 5 days ago

no im keeping the flashers stock for now. Ive also read somewhere that led flashers are even more obnoxious than the normal ones. My current plan for the lighting is to do the backbox with led and maybe the general gi. leave most everything else stock for now. Im thinking of going up to TPF next weekend so that might change once I get to see how all the led's look. Eventually would do the controlled lamps

And looking at that board closer its 4 sockets that are the wrong way not 2 ><

#78 2 days ago

So I have got everything put back together and a few games played. Still have a few issues some old some new. First issue was I was still not getting any switches down the grn/yel line. Pulled out the multimeter and traced the problem back to a bad pin I missed when I was doing the connectors and now all switches register. Currently none of the red cheveron inserts lite up have not traced anything yet hoping its just another bad pin (or something similar). The main issue Im concerned with is nothing that is connected to the 34v (red/wht) is working intermittent. I had this problem before I did anything with the kickers and I never got the pop bumper to work prior to doing work. When they are working the kickers will shoot off several times in rapid sucession (assuming this can be fixed by adjusting the switch) and the pop bumper seems weak (although im not really sure how strong they are supposed to be to start with). When they die everything on the string dies so no kickers pop bumper yagov kicker rescue kicker ect. The first time I noticed that the kickers were dead I checked the playfield fuse over by yagov kicker and replaced it. Everything worked fine for a few minutes then went dead again checked the new fuse and it was fine. Cycled the machine off and on and checked power at the power supply connector. Got 31v at the connector on power supply

Any suggestions on how to test this problem and find the issue? All the coils have power right? So with the machine on I can goto the end of the line and test for voltage by touching the red/wht and a ground on the cabinet and work my way up to find the problem? Kinda like how ive been doing the switch problems.

#79 2 days ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

Any suggestions on how to test this problem and find the issue? All the coils have power right? So with the machine on I can goto the end of the line and test for voltage by touching the red/wht and a ground on the cabinet and work my way up to find the problem? Kinda like how ive been doing the switch problems.

When you have a intermittent connection like this, it normally will show good voltage but wont have current to operate the coils. If you place it in solenoid test for one of the affected and put a voltmeter on the red/wht wire, you will see that the voltage drops to zero when the game tries to fire a coil. Then keep testing the red/wht wire, working your way back to the source (power supply) until you find the spot where the voltage isn't dropping any more. This will be where your bad connection is.

#80 2 days ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

Currently none of the red cheveron inserts lite up have not traced anything yet hoping its just another bad pin (or something similar).

They are all on the same wire, so a good chance of a bad pin.

#81 2 days ago

How the heck have I been missing out on this project?
Awesome work so far!

#82 2 days ago
Quoted from cletus14:

How the heck have I been missing out on this project?

You have been a bit busy lately.

#83 2 days ago

Very true!

#84 2 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

When you have a intermittent connection like this, it normally will show good voltage but wont have current to operate the coils. If you place it in solenoid test for one of the affected and put a voltmeter on the red/wht wire, you will see that the voltage drops to zero when the game tries to fire a coil. Then keep testing the red/wht wire, working your way back to the source (power supply) until you find the spot where the voltage isn't dropping any more. This will be where your bad connection is.

well with that said my gut feeling is the connector at the power board or the connector that connects to playfield harness. All the coils have been gone over so thats the only 2 places it could be other than possibly a bad fuse holder (unlikely). Ill bust out the multi meter in the morning and see what i can come up with.

#85 1 day ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

well with that said my gut feeling is the connector at the power board or the connector that connects to playfield harness.

I would have to agree with you on this, check for a cracked header pin on the back of the power supply for this connector.

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