Williams doozie locked on relay

Pin-it

Inactive member

OP
Quoted from davishurd:
I noticed that every time i hit the target

OP
Quoted from davishurd:
the playfield the 100 point relay constantly fires

The contacts on that target switch are probably too close, open the gap a bit...

#3 7 years ago

???

davishurd

Inactive member

I will try that now.... thank you for the reply. I put up a YouTube video of the problem. I will post a link to the video if you would like to take a look at it.

#4 7 years ago

DOC

drsfmd

Pinside member

10y 76,550 3,156 108

Stick a piece of paper between the blades of that switch. If the problem goes away, you'll know it was that switch.

#5 7 years ago

???

davishurd

Inactive member

Just got done increasing the gap between the contacts on the target. Unfortunately it did not work. But while i was under the play field i decided to manually activate the gate relay and the problem occurred... any thoughts on that?

#6 7 years ago

???

davishurd

Inactive member

I tried that as well and the problem continued. Do you think it could have something to do with the score motor?

#7 7 years ago

SMM

dr_nybble

Pinside+ Frequent

I think a schematic would be very helpful. I looked at the manual on ipdb for "Daffie" and the sequence from hitting the target seems quite complicated with a series of relays closing each other and then the score motor running. It could be a switch on the score motor that is supposed to cause a relay to release but never does - - the schematic is really needed to pinpoint the problem.

#8 7 years ago

???

davishurd

Inactive member

Thank you! I totally agree. A schematic would be very help full.... Would anyone happen have a schematic to the Doozie or Daffie that they would be willing to upload or email to me?

#9 7 years ago

Pin-it

Inactive member

Ok, seems a Daffie is just an A.A.B. version and it should be the same in the way of the playfield scoring except a pop bumper / drop target diff....

Owners manual usually gives enough info. http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/624/Williams_1968_Daffie_Instruction_Manual_no_schematics.pdf

This should get you in the right direction. Unless the manufacture changed a circuit design between the 2 ( reply / A.A.B ) models ?
Try the target relay should be N.O. as seen in snip, adjust gap...

100_pt._re._(resized).PNG

target_re._(resized).PNG

edit info: An end of stroke or impulse should be included in that circuit too...

Post last edited 7 years ago: “additional info”

#10 7 years ago

MJG

Mikala

Pinside+ Frequent

9y 78,800 1,390

OP
Quoted from davishurd:
I tried that as well and the problem continued. Do you think it could have something to do with the score motor?

The score motor should be your very last resort when looking for a problem. You can open up a whole mess of problems if you start playing around with those switches.

#11 7 years ago

SMM

dr_nybble

Pinside+ Frequent

I don't believe the target relay is responsible for scoring 100 points in this context. It appears that the 100 relay is pulsed through the score motor which is why it keeps adding 100 points as the score motor turns.

You can buy a schematic from The Pinball Resource or there are several offered on eBay.

#12 7 years ago

???

davishurd

Inactive member

Thank you all for the information. I checked the tagret relay and all the switches are in the correct N.O position. I have been trying to stay away from messing with the score motor, but I think if i can find the cause of what keeps the score motor turning that could resolve my problem. I am trying to get a schematic as we speak. Thanks again for the help

#13 7 years ago

DOC

drsfmd

Pinside member

10y 76,550 3,156 108

I wouldn't touch the score motor yet (please, please don't do this!).

Take a look at the manual on IPDB for Daffie (same game, add a ball). You REALLY need a schematic to figure out what the gate relay passes through-- and check every switch in that stack.

#14 7 years ago

???

davishurd

Inactive member

Thank you.. I wasn't planning on touching anything untill I know for sure that is causing the problem. I dont want any more problems than I already have.

#15 7 years ago

???

davishurd

Inactive member

Thanks for all the advise! Guess I'm going to have to buy the schematic.
Please keep advising if anyone has dealt with this problem before or knows how to fix.
Any suggestions are welcome!

1 week later

#16 7 years ago

???

davishurd

Inactive member

Finally got the schematic for the doozie! I am not completely sure how to read it, but i get the idea. If anyone can suggest what i should be looking for that would be very helpful. Thanks.

#17 7 years ago

DOC

drsfmd

Pinside member

10y 76,550 3,156 108

See my earlier posts. They still both apply. If you need more detail, let me know.

Cheers,

SFMD

#18 7 years ago

SMM

dr_nybble

Pinside+ Frequent

Can you first post a scan of the portion of the schematic showing the score motor? First we will determine what is making the score motor run -- then we will examine the portion of the schematic that would make it stop and find out why it is not!

When you activate the top target switch to open the gate, what relays energize?

> gate relay?
> trough relay?
> 3000 relay?

#19 7 years ago

???

davishurd

Inactive member

Here is the score motor

When the target switch is activated the gate relay, through relay, and 300 relay are all energized.

20160811_163558_(resized).jpg

#20 7 years ago

SMM

dr_nybble

Pinside+ Frequent

Can you post the portion of the schematic with the 3000 relay? According to the manual it runs the score motor.

#21 7 years ago

Pin-it

Inactive member

Forgot about this.
Just a thought , did you ever check on the score drum (100 reel )end of stroke break switch ?
If it doesnt open then it will stay stuck in continual rotation aka wont release.
Just press the score drum cassette lock down slightly (w/small screwdriver ) and carefully slide it out to better see whats going on.
Be careful dont want to scratch the numbers....
The contact switch would be located just below the 100 reel stepup coil ( not the 3 horizontal switch stack )but in a vertical position,see if the contacts are opening when advancing it manually or it another possible it could be the wires / terminal shunting each other at that same switch....
They will open upon every pull by the coil or finger and close on release state as you will see.

Check the impulse "B" motor switch. Was thinking you had a stuck coil not multiple firings.

Post last edited 7 years ago: “Wrong info”

#22 7 years ago

Pin-it

Inactive member

Step_up_(resized).JPG

#23 7 years ago

???

davishurd

Inactive member

I could not find the 3000 relay on the schematic but i did find a 300 relay and when i pressed the target on the machine the 300 relay energized. I think it serves the same purpose but im not for sure. Here it is though..

20160812_104249_(resized).jpg

#24 7 years ago

???

davishurd

Inactive member

Thank you for the advice i completely forgot about that i will check the eos switch now... I will let you know if anything changes. Thanks

#25 7 years ago

SMM

dr_nybble

Pinside+ Frequent

Yeah maybe it is 3000 on Daffie but 300 on Doozie. So in the schematic we are interested in the hold switch for the 300 relay. This keeps it energized until whatever job it is doing is finished (I guess to score 300 points?).

The hold switch has an arrow labelled "To 3RD POS. HOLD @ D-3" -- so can you now find area D-3 on the schematic and include that?

#26 7 years ago

Pin-it

Inactive member

Need to respond to the impulse B motor switch edit before.
Sorry my tablet battery was low, see and look how its imp B is involved by looking for that target switch that you press in the schematic and trace where it triggers the 100 reel along any other wires to and from that switch.
Maybe a snip of that image we can see something when you get time. Thanks , Pin-it

#27 7 years ago

???

davishurd

Inactive member