(Topic ID: 100074)

[SOLVED] Williams Comet (System 9): Loses sound after 5-10 minutes

By pinballholder

9 years ago


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#1 9 years ago

Recently acquired a Comet that I am nursing back to life. I have it playing pretty decent at the moment but now that I am able to play longer on it a new problem has surfaced. If I leave the machine on or play a few games on it, the sounds cuts out. I can sometimes faintly hear some sounds if I strain my ears, but just a low level hum is left. If I turn the machine off for a while and come back later, no sounds issues.

So I assume this is not a wiring issue but needs some pointers on where to look next. I felt the sound chips and one or two feel much hotter then the rest but not sure what is normal.

Appreciate the help!

#2 9 years ago

Evening bump, any pointers are appreciated.

#3 9 years ago

Sounds like the amplifier might be cutting out due to getting too hot. It's on a heat sink on the CPU board. First thing I'd try is carefully separating the two parts, cleaning them both with some rubbing alcohol or naphtha, and applying a little heat sink grease between the two of them.

It's also possible there's a cold solder joint on the amp. It'll look like a transistor with 5 legs.

If this is above your comfort level, and you need some help, I can help. Or if you need pics, I've a few dys9 boards handy I can show you in pics.

#4 9 years ago

Definitely sounds like the heat sink on the CPU as john said.

Not sure about a cold solder joint on the amp as I would think you would get no sound at first until it warmed up allowing the solder joint to expand slightly thus restoring the connection in most cases.

Did the system 9's have a safety amp cut off to prevent overheating? I'm not all that familiar with the early Williams games but always want to learn.

#5 9 years ago

I am adding some pics of my main board and my sound board to help facilitate. I feel ready to tackle this with more info. I just need help to identifying the where the heat sink is. I can try re-greasing it tomorrow as this is something I have had to do on my PCs many times. And yes, before any one asks, once this pin is stable I am going to remove the on-board battery holder, LOL.

CPUCPU
SoundSound

#6 9 years ago

It's kinda late for me but going by the schematics.... This may be your trouble spot. Again....I'm not that familiar with early Williams. Just trying to help.

comet cpu.jpgcomet cpu.jpg

#7 9 years ago

Ok, it's a good spot to start looking tomorrow. Will wait to see what johnwartjr posts too.

#8 9 years ago

That's the amplifier in question. The heat sink can be removed by pulling the screw and nut that run through the center of both of them.

If this isn't it , the problem definitely sounds thermal related. There are cans of component cooler spray that you can buy at electronics stores or online. You might try spraying a little on any excessively hot ICs and seeing if the sound returns while you do it.

#9 9 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

That's the amplifier in question. The heat sink can be removed by pulling the screw and nut that run through the center of both of them.
If this isn't it , the problem definitely sounds thermal related. There are cans of component cooler spray that you can buy at electronics stores or online. You might try spraying a little on any excessively hot ICs and seeing if the sound returns while you do it.

Upside down canned air will work for that too.

#10 9 years ago
Quoted from thedefog:

Upside down canned air will work for that too.

That works OK for pulling mylar, but seems to be a little more 'moist' than component cooler in my experience. Maybe I'm wrong. I just don't want to short out an IC or something because I used canned air upside down...

#11 9 years ago

Hmm, I've never had liquid come out of it. It sublimates for me.

#12 9 years ago

Ok, sorry for the long delay but was finally able to go get thermal paste today and took out heat sink (as circled in photo a few posts up), cleaned it and the component (transistor?) and re installed. Same issue as before, sound stops after 5-10 minutes. Sound check does't work in diagnostic mode (just cycles thru sounds, but you hear nothing). I touched heat sink and transistor after sounds stopped, didn't feel hot to me (a little warm). So what's the next step?

Thanks!

#13 9 years ago

And after 25 minutes of being turned off (but plugged in) the sounds is back.

#14 9 years ago

I'm curious....Does this pin have a volume pot?

#15 9 years ago

There is a dial on the sound board (lower right side of picture above). I assumed it was to balance between sound effects and voice.

#16 9 years ago

I also should point out that i pushed in the speech diagnostics switch on the CPU board itself (versus the sound test that can be run via the buttons on the coin door). All the speech sounds appear to be there. When I attempt to do the same test after sound has been lost, nothing but some very faint squelches.

#17 9 years ago

Space shuttle has a volume pot below the tilt assembly inside on the lower left of the cabinet. I assume comet has one there too

#18 9 years ago

Yeah, that's the master volume. I have played with both and during the first 10 mins, all sound and speech is perfect.

#19 9 years ago

If I am reading this correctly you are losing both the speech and sounds after it warms up

You can seperate the speech board on system 9 machines by removing the ribbon cable and then installing jumper J10. This puts the sound straight to the amp instead of sending it out the ribbon cable to be mixed with the speech before returning and running to the amp.

Doing this can help isolate the problem to one board.

If you are losing both speech and sound then you want to find out where the two sound lines meet up and then search from there.

The sound leaves the MPU board and goes through the ribbon cable, meets up with the speech line before going into an opamp at U2 (this is a 1458 chip available here https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=21&pg=2)

After that op amp the sound lines go back to the MPU. Once on the MPU it's pretty much just the TDA2002 amp (can replace with a TDA2003) and a couple of inline caps at C24 and C29.

#20 9 years ago

After you lose sound, crank the master volume up all the way. Listen if you get anything at all. Like kbliznick pointed out....I've been wondering if it's not the caps at C24 and 29 as well. It's starting to sound that way to me.

#21 9 years ago

So after sound cuts out, you can still barely hear it, just super duper faint. If I crank up the master sound volume to max the humming gets much louder and the sound gets just barely louder. Turning the sound up also causes the static over the speakers. Will check in the morning when its cooled back down to see if static happens when its not overheated.

#22 9 years ago
Quoted from kbliznick:

installing jumper J10

Can you clarify how to jumper J10? I get what a jumper is, but do I jumper between pin 1 and 9 or what? Thanks!

1 month later
#24 9 years ago

Ok, after a few months I finally got an hour or two to focus on the sounds issues again. And went back to the basics. I was inspecting the MPU screws to insure they were tightened down and no shorts were occurring when I discovered that I was missing three screws and had a fourth one that was barely hanging on. After installing and tightening them all down the problem appears to have gone away. I tried at first to just bypass the sound board and had no issues. Added sound board back in and still had no issues after letting it run for about an hour.

Thanks for all the help!

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